The State of the Community: An opinion by Psi

[Psi Kiya Trist]

Lately, a lot of people have been saying "the community is in shambles", "no one wants to come here anymore", "the community is not as welcoming as it once was." From these observations, blame has been thrown about to all kinds of places. Turkey seems to blame the mod team. I would blame the community itself.

To expand upon what I mean, in the past, members of the community(usually parts of the larger alliance groups) massed people for merely expressing their opinion on these forums. It was an impressive form of propaganda control, but it also destroyed the good feelings and friendship that existed before then. Before then, the "word" on the forums was respect. You could talk to anyone and expect to get some semblance of respect, we were all "equals". Once the massing started, it became an issue of "who's better" can control the forums, and they did, for a while. What happened, was eventually the massing caused a huge public outcry. The community could no longer stand it. Since they had no recourse in the game against the top four alliances banded together, they took it out on the forums. The forums became a hot bed of aggression and flaming. No more could you talk to just anyone, and have a good conversation. People were assigned sides, "With us or against us", "If you're not with us, you're biased." The truth stopped mattering to people. The forum became so bad, the administration of the time, decided that it was time to impose harsher penalties for flaming, and spamming valid discussions in an attempt to curb this aggression. It only half worked. The negative feeling has persisted, but the full aggressive "you're with us or you're against us" posters have decreased. Some things have changed for the better, and some rules have been relaxed since then.

You complain of how you "lack your rights" on this forum, but you do not know what it was like to be a Moderator in an alliance with someone, and having to mod them, and that person kicked you out of your alliance for it. The whole forum has a lot of growing to do in order to heal these scars, but attacking the Moderators is not going to help. The blame lies with all of us.

And this is not to say the moderators are blameless. I believe the moderators are leaders in the community, but only so far as "Servant leadership". They are supposed to lead by example. If we want a positive atmosphere for new people to come in, be able to speak their mind, and feel a part of the community, we need to be accepting of them. Not judging them according to our conceived notions. Correcting them of their misinformed opinions, and showing them the truth. The forums should not be about "with us or against us." It should not be about "I'm better than you, so I am not going to respect you." Everyone deserves some respect, it doesn't matter if they're new or old. I have seen many people go on about "They need to earn my respect". Which leaves me asking, "How can they earn it if you don't give them a chance?" This is why the Respect group was created all those years ago. As a positive move to encourage the rest of the community to accept others. With how the Respect group is now, it feels rather obvious, that
this community doesn't wish to become a fun place again. The pervasive negativity has become "a way of life" for the normal forum goer. I have long fought to challenge this, but it is not a fight any one person can fight alone. The community as a whole must make the move to correct the atmosphere of the forum.

So, what is it worth to you? Are you willing to put aside the animosity to get new people in here? People who could contribute great opinions, and great ideas. Or, are you going to tell me I'm completely wrong, and that the decline of the forum was caused by another reason, that you can explain as thoroughly as I have here? I will be looking at this thread with great interest.

[Flavar]

Wow nice post.

I am no fan of seeking who is to blame. Everybody should take a step back and look at themselves and their behavior and think about that.
And maybe change it a bit afterwards.

Everyone can influence the atmosphere and should try to do his or her part, if he is not happy with the state the forum is in. I know i would like to see a bit of change. But to maybe help with that, i have to become way more involfed again istead of just reading from time to time

That said i want to add some great words of wisdom from buck.


Before writing any post on this forum, please apply the "Grandmother Test". Ask yourself: would you write an e-mail to your elderly grandmother using that attitude and language? Enough said.

[Cole]

Good post there Psi. As another early 2005 forum user active during years, I can confirm what he said, even though I was just a user, not an admin/mod.

[Juliette]

This is merely a symptom of our times, and the general distrust towards government and other traditional institutions; something which has dramatically increased all over the world in the past years.
So to blame this community.. well.. I agree. I blame the 'community of man' though; the world as it is. Chaos, conflict and distrust run rampant in our society, and as we can see from the conflicts over the past years, also on these boards.



In short; I agree.

[renegadze]

IMO if you want to break old attitudes, then you need a fresh start, and for that I think you need a new forum team, from top down.

Personal grudges and vendettas have gone way past the point of "forgive and forget"

Some members of the forum team seem completely incapable of working with the members of the community, unfortunately this generally gets the communities "back up" and all mods then get tarred with the same brush. So whilst there maybe some mods that do a stirling job, nothing is going to improve unless there is change.

For change, you need to force an attitude adjustment in one of the 2 warring camps (mods\users). Remove the community from the forum = dead forum, remove mods, more can be recruited.

I'm not sure what the recent application turnout has been for new mods, but I know a lot of people won't even bother applying "because of the current setup".

Bring a structure in place, that applications for forum admin can be made to Jason, and he will be responsible for the appointments, then also bring back the ability of the omsperson to have a direct line to Jason if a complaint involves an Admin. It seems to be transparency that people want, if the forum team are fully confident of decisions they have made, then there should be no concern as to whomever the appeal goes.

[Juliette]

2 reasons why that will never work:

1. Admin does not know more people who are qualified to moderate the forum, and will not intervene in forum administration. To leave this to the community will polarise the forum staff -as we have seen in recent events; people pulling this way, people pushing that way- and will ultimately create a situation far worse than we are having now.
2. How will your suggestion cure the common man of the illness that is acidity and protect them from further hate-mongering people?

[renegadze]

2 reasons why that will never work:

1. Admin does not know more people who are qualified to moderate the forum, and will not intervene in forum administration. To leave this to the community will polarise the forum staff -as we have seen in recent events; people pulling this way, people pushing that way- and will ultimately create a situation far worse than we are having now.
2. How will your suggestion cure the common man of the illness that is acidity and protect them from further hate-mongering people?

1. How exactly do you think the first forum mods were appointed?

2. It's not about curing anything, it's called a fresh start for a reason, there is too much hatred round at the moment, and IMO too much for the split to be put back together. Let's get to the point where people are recruited on merit and now on who they are friends with

[Noobert]

People are free to decide if they wish to apply or not, but personally, anyone who decides to not apply to become a Moderator based upon things they have no idea about saves us time having to deal with their ignorance.

The Moderator Staff has grown over the years to be a closer group of individuals who can answer topics with level heads, and straight answers together. You would have been given more information, I even started a topic based upon it, had you only waited a few days but instead you decided to viciously attack the entire moderator team and state 'Stalin would be proud' as well as cry for blood; I doubt anyone would take that lightly.

Apply? Don't apply? It doesn't bother me all that much because there will always be people who are willing to step up for this community to make it a better place and help out. The decision is in your hands alone. All Moderator applications are treated equally, as they always have been. There is no bias, hate, etc towards anyone who applies.

Lovely words Psi. I take back what I said about Greg in the Moderator forum, you'll have to marry me instead.

Or perhaps I can have both..

[renegadze]

I even started a topic based upon it, had you only waited a few days but instead you decided to viciously attack the entire moderator team and state 'Stalin would be proud' as well as cry for blood; I doubt anyone would take that lightly.
Or perhaps I can have both..

yeah of course I stated that, see my point exactly you can't even post without lying, please link me to where I said that

[Psi Kiya Trist]

1. How exactly do you think the first forum mods were appointed?

The first mods were appointed when Admin Jason actively participated in the community. We had direct contact with him, and he actually participated in the discussions. Nowadays he's so busy, he can't do that. I doubt he even knows everyone who's a mod, because he's that out of touch with the community.

Starting over at that point, will only lead to trouble.

[Noobert]

yeah of course I stated that, see my point exactly you can't even post without lying, please link me to where I said that

... your decision. For there to be due process and natural justice, you actually need to involve the staff member as part of the performance review. Stalin would be proud!

You asked for it, so I shall post it. I never stated you posted it either? I just posted that it was stated.

I'm not going to argue with you. I made my post. Take it or leave it.

[MEZZANINE]

Admins chosen by admins, mods chosen by admins, those in control stay in control because those that want change dont get in, and anyone who does get in that rocks the boat gets driven or kicked out.

Like most I have never seen the Mod section but from a users point of view thats how things look.



If anyone has the time to create a new alternative SGW forum I for one would go there, although human nature being what it is Im sure that would go the same way and need replacing after a couple of years too lol


As for game admin not getting involved, since the forum link is on the game site and he makes game update announcements here instead of ingame, essentially he recommends and endorses this forum, so he should make sure this forum is worthy.

[x_N1GHTW1NG_x]

great post psi, thats why im posting around for starters to make more of the community and get more involved

[[BoT] Jason]

Admins chosen by admins, mods chosen by admins, those in control stay in control because those that want change dont get in, and anyone who does get in that rocks the boat gets driven or kicked out.

Like most I have never seen the Mod section but from a users point of view thats how things look.



If anyone has the time to create a new alternative SGW forum I for one would go there, although human nature being what it is Im sure that would go the same way and need replacing after a couple of years too lol


As for game admin not getting involved, since the forum link is on the game site and he makes game update announcements here instead of ingame, essentially he recommends and endorses this forum, so he should make sure this forum is worthy.

Sounds like a coup to me

In all honesty if you dont like the mod team , tough...Admins do go through compulsory changes to my knowledge and mods do leave and get replaced...However that is only noticed when one decides it benefits their little "I are'z the victim" Argument

And just to throw a hint of derailment, people that call bias to mods are funny. Half of them don't even know the rules or the jurisdiction of the mod

So once again if you dont like the mods that give up their time to prevent anarchy and trolling then tough

Have a nice day

[Mordack]

I disagree with the assertion the 'negative' behaviour has destroyed the forums. Negative behaviour, or what you have chosen to categorize as negative behaviour, is fun. Sometimes the best part of massing someone was coming onto the forums afterwards to gloat about it. The high politics of the various alliances, their propaganda machines and their constant attempts to outmanoeuvre one another; that was interesting. The banter, some of it witty and some of it less so, was entertaining. For me, that's when the community was at its most vibrant. SGW is a war game. A game of destruction, strategy and cunning. For us to expect the associated forum to be a latter day Woodstoke stretches believability, and for a long time the forum was hugely active and diverse whilst simultaneously functioning as a 'hot bed of aggression.'

The game and the forum, as we know, have a symbiotic relationship. In many cases, a loss of interest in the game is followed by a loss of interest in the forums. The decline of the forums simply mirrors the decline of the game. There is no deep overriding philosophical explanation. I reactivated my in-game account a few days ago, and now I'm wondering why I bothered. Most of my friends are gone now, and my former alliances have moved on without me. I suspect there are quite a few people in the same boat. People move on. Games are a dime a dozen these days, and each new one is shinier than the last. Browser based MMORPGs are in almost unanimous decline. It's sad, but it's true.

And honestly, some of the responses to this thread are just ridiculous. We should all take a step back and look at ourselves? This is a game, not group therapy. "Hi, my name's Mordack and I was once a heavy sarcasm user in the Galactic Colosseum."