03[18:30] * adminAdminingLOL is now known as adminHere
[18:30] <~adminHere> hello
[18:31] <+Aiz> moin adminHere
[18:31] <~adminHere>
afternoon, yes
[18:31] <+RobeGateWars> hi
[18:31] <~adminHere> happy enough with the results, robe, if not hte process, on the alliance gift stuff ?:)
[18:32] <+Aiz> hella expensive lil buggers
[18:32] <~adminHere> i think it was a good excercise, and we ended up with an extra gift
[18:32] <~adminHere> lol
[18:32] <~adminHere> i think there was a bug i fxed too
[18:32] <~adminHere> where it was not doing teh 'per 5 members' price right
[18:32] <+RobeGateWars> i think the massing updates were good but the changes to alliance repair and ppt are terrible
[18:32] <~adminHere> i am n ot sure though
[18:32] <~adminHere> they were part of massing thoug h:)
[18:32] <+Aiz> i for one am not touching those alliance gifts ever again
[18:32] <~adminHere> can you explain
[18:32] <+RobeGateWars> sometimes we try to put everything into one basket and should seperate out wider issues
[18:33] <~adminHere> ah yes
[18:33] <+RobeGateWars> i have been saying for some time in forums that Alliance repairs and ppt needed to be looked at seperately
[18:33] <+Aiz> i like the alliance ppt change
[18:33] <~adminHere> they are usually related though
[18:33] <+RobeGateWars> everything is related
[18:33] <+Aiz> and alliance ppt SHOULD be expensive
[18:33] <+RobeGateWars> but unless you seperate out the big issues you dont get sensible feedback
[18:33] <+Aiz> but the rest sucks
[18:34] <+RobeGateWars> who is aiz?
01[18:34] <&Paul> Aiucaut
[18:34] <+Aiz> ;D
[18:34] <+RobeGateWars> hi
01[18:34] <&Paul> and getting sensible feedback from most users
01[18:34] <&Paul> is a hard
[18:34] <~adminHere> lol
[18:34] <+RobeGateWars> so a handful of players wanted repairs and ppt changed
01[18:34] <&Paul> when tehy dont wanan act mature
[18:34] <~adminHere> what, exactly, robe is not liked by you in the ppt/repair update
[18:34] <+RobeGateWars> the majority will not be happy with that outcoe
[18:35] <~adminHere> i thought you wanted less of them (and i agree)
03[18:35] * TacticalCommander () has joined #theplace
03[18:35] * ChanServ sets mode: +v TacticalCommander
[18:35] <+Aiz> moin TacticalCommander
[18:35] <+TacticalCommander> evening
01[18:35] <&Paul> im not here
01[18:35] <&Paul> mi a figment of ur imagination
[18:35] <+RobeGateWars> my biggest concern was the reasoning as to why a few wanted repairs reduced by 99% yet wanted to keep 12 hours of ppt, when its PPT that stops massing not repairs
[18:36] <+RobeGateWars> it was not a logical argument which is why I felt it was a loaded gun to favour one style of play only
[18:36] <~adminHere> ah. but do not think ppt is untuochable
[18:37] <~adminHere> i do not like to take away too much at oonce htough
[18:37] <+RobeGateWars> repairs make massing harder but they do not stop them in their tracks, PPT does, and allows larger alliances to sab out the strike of the underdog before they can take another run
[18:37] <~adminHere> right direction, is the term i'd stick on this one
[18:37] <+RobeGateWars> i think thats right jason, all changes should be done incrementally
[18:37] <~adminHere> maybe i should have done half as much to both, but for now one at a time is how it went
[18:37] <+RobeGateWars> everyone had ample time to discuss the issues though so that was fantastic
[18:37] <~adminHere> although 3x4 is harder to work than 12x1
[18:38] <+RobeGateWars> 3 x 4 is really not sensible
[18:38] <~adminHere> yes till i put it in prod and fine tuned
[18:38] <~adminHere> why is 3x4 worse than 12x1 ?
[18:38] <~adminHere> if i go 3x3 in future i am "only taking one away"
[18:38] <+RobeGateWars> I am in TL and we are a large single active alliance
[18:38] <+RobeGateWars> so i am speaking on behalf of someone who might want to mass us, not myself
[18:39] <+RobeGateWars> i can just set ppt for 3 hours now and have ample to sab out any one who was attack my alliance
[18:39] <+RobeGateWars> before they can strike again
[18:39] <+RobeGateWars> 3 hours removes flexibilty too
[18:39] <+RobeGateWars> makes PPT very prescriptive
[18:40] <+RobeGateWars> I didnt udnerstand why lithium suggested it when he had previously posted that 3 hours was no good
[18:41] <+RobeGateWars> I find any suggestions lacking in logic have a risk of favouring one type of play over another is all
[18:41] <~adminHere> i still don't understand
[18:41] <~adminHere> less flexible is less useful -yes?
[18:41] <+RobeGateWars> yes
[18:42] <+RobeGateWars> PPT was used by alliances for many reasons
[18:42] <~adminHere> so 3x4 is 'better' than 12x1 in that it decreases usefulness of alliance ppt
[18:42] <~adminHere> ie makes it less powerful
[18:42] <+RobeGateWars> if somone needs to send large amounts of naqs to others they might have used 1 PPT for 1 hour
[18:42] <~adminHere> yes now they can, but use up 1 of 4 for the week
[18:43] <+RobeGateWars> i think a new topic is required to discuss gifts now
[18:43] <~adminHere> lol yes
[18:43] <~adminHere> but on massing, i will likely take one last stab at ppt in a week or 2
[18:43] <+RobeGateWars> maybe that could be used to get more input and we can test the massing updates now
01[18:43] <&Paul> is it bad i think alliance gifts period are a bad idea...
[18:43] <~adminHere> based on how the repairs work out
[18:43] <+RobeGateWars> Paul some think so and some dont we need to find a compromise
[18:43] <~adminHere> more input - then fine tune last time, yes
[18:43] <~adminHere> for massing
02[18:43] * +Jin () Quit (Quit: )
[18:44] <+RobeGateWars> we should close out the massing updates now because everyone is happy with 80% and thats as good as it gets
[18:44] <~adminHere> ppt and massing though is last item
[18:44] <~adminHere> i think
[18:44] <+RobeGateWars> I think the farming issue was different to massing too
[18:45] <~adminHere> and -- its not tested as it is now
[18:45] <~adminHere> yes, farming was different --thus the 6/week full repair
[18:45] <+Aiz> Insured Realm Damage Meter 0 Percent (of max 3,750 loses in turns)
[18:45] <+Aiz> WUT IS DIS!
[18:45] <+Aiz> D:
[18:45] <~adminHere> ?
06[18:45] * +Aiz asplodes
[18:45] <~adminHere> i did not change that i do not think
[18:45] <+Aiz> 3750?
[18:45] <+Aiz> tis mad
[18:45] <~adminHere> at
[18:45] <+Aiz> insane
[18:45] <+TacticalCommander> whats the realm alert?
[18:45] <~adminHere> too high ?
[18:46] <+RobeGateWars> I can see that many players were happy with dividing the types of repairs so that is a good update
[18:46] <+Aiz> none atm >_>
[18:46] <+TacticalCommander> thats why your nox is so high
[18:46] <+Aiz> and yes 3750 is just insane
[18:46] <+RobeGateWars> I think that reducing repairs from 480 to 10 was too radical
[18:47] <~adminHere> where you see the 3750 ? and why showing if no nox?
[18:47] <+Aiz> im on nox >_>
[18:47] <+Aiz> just not realm alert
[18:47] <~adminHere> ah i see
[18:48] <+RobeGateWars> I think one of the bigger problems in these debates and there is no getting around it, is that players will suggest what is best for them and not the game in general
[18:48] <~adminHere> did i change the 3750? i did not think so
[18:48] <~adminHere> if i did i brought it down
[18:48] <+RobeGateWars> the squeeky wheel gets the oil
01[18:48] <&Paul> well more players used ot come to meet
[18:48] <~adminHere> ya selfism - i count on it now though
01[18:48] <&Paul> now virtually none come
[18:48] <+RobeGateWars> actually the meeting should not be used to float new ideas
[18:48] <+RobeGateWars> that should go in forums for debate
[18:49] <+RobeGateWars> then Jason can ask questions or clarification after reading everyones input from the thread
[18:49] <+TacticalCommander> nox is 1875 for higherester
01[18:49] <&Paul> reading those thread is sometimes useless
01[18:49] <&Paul> because of the flaming
[18:49] <+Aiz> agreed
[18:49] <~adminHere> ah i see
[18:49] <~adminHere> it did go up
[18:50] <+RobeGateWars> 1) The alliance repair has been slit into all weapons (6 per day) and defensive weapons (30 per day).
[18:50] <+RobeGateWars> so repairs have gone from 480 to 36 (split)
[18:50] <+RobeGateWars> that is a radical change
[18:50] <~adminHere> it is...but was needed i think too
[18:50] <+RobeGateWars> why
01[18:50] <&Paul> i say we just go all teh way and remove alliance gifts
[18:50] <+RobeGateWars> what was the problem requiring the change
[18:50] <~adminHere> a)free farming and b)stopped massing
[18:50] <+RobeGateWars> paul thats not useful learn to compromise
[18:51] <+RobeGateWars> alliance ppt stops farming not repairs
01[18:51] <&Paul> compromise has driven people away. gotta get back to basics
[18:51] <+Aiz> admin can i has 20mil uu? ;o
[18:51] <+RobeGateWars> there are still 12 hours of alliance PPT
[18:51] <+Aiz> someone sniped my AC earlier :<
[18:51] <~adminHere> for now robe, for now....
03[18:51] * Aiz was kicked by Paul (ou know better)
03[18:51] * Aiz () has joined #theplace
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[18:51] <+RobeGateWars> lithium posted alliance PPT was the worse of the two then he argued you remove repairs not ppt
[18:51] <+Aiz> :<
[18:51] <+RobeGateWars> this is not logical
[18:52] <~adminHere> no
[18:52] <+RobeGateWars> I think the farming issue was a red herring
[18:52] <~adminHere> but the 'direction' of ppt and repair is/was less
[18:52] <+RobeGateWars> nothing to do with massing
[18:52] <~adminHere> thats still direction for ppt
[18:53] <+RobeGateWars> so even though PPT is the problem we have kept 12 out of 12 and reduced repairs by 99%
[18:53] <+RobeGateWars> that is not a balanced change
[18:53] <+RobeGateWars> we have favoured snipers in this change
[18:53] <~adminHere> yet... yet...
[18:53] <+RobeGateWars> snipers like PPT and hate repairs
[18:53] <~adminHere> well - i am not sure about that
[18:53] <~adminHere> sniper would like offensive repairs, yes?
[18:54] <+Aiz> indeed
[18:54] <+RobeGateWars> snipers like the PPT but hate the alliance repairs when they are trying to mass a player in an alliance
[18:55] <~adminHere> yes
[18:55] <~adminHere> ok point taken. if i do anything it will be reduce ppt, not increase repairs
[18:55] <~adminHere> i may add other gifts though that are not as contriversial
[18:55] <+RobeGateWars> if we were serious about making it better for the little guy we would have reduced Alliance PPT not only repairs
[18:56] <+RobeGateWars> Jason can you start a discussion topic about alliance gifts.
[18:56] <+RobeGateWars> lets get some wider input
[18:56] <+RobeGateWars> from the community
01[18:56] <&Paul> Ill Start it for you
[18:56] <+RobeGateWars> i still want to know whats in the back room
01[18:56] <&Paul> and yall can post
[18:56] <+RobeGateWars> that wont have the same affect paul
[18:56] <+RobeGateWars> if Jason starts it people will participate it
01[18:56] <&Paul> no they wont
[18:57] <+RobeGateWars> cause they know he cares about the subject
01[18:57] <&Paul> seriously
01[18:57] <&Paul> u know how many people goto game suggestion forums
[18:57] <+RobeGateWars> anyway not going to argue paul
01[18:57] <&Paul> not many
[18:57] <+RobeGateWars> jasons time is short and we are not all pessimists
[18:57] <+RobeGateWars> I can start a thread if you prefer Jason but I think people will take it more seriously if you do it
02[18:57] * +TacticalCommander () Quit (Connection reset by peer)
[18:58] <+RobeGateWars> Mezz was right about getting more input into what is a radical change to gifts that will affect many types of play
[18:58] <+Aiz> RobeGateWars
[18:58] <+Aiz> keep TL from vulturing ;o
[18:58] <+Aiz> in the sigma vs nemesis and genesis war
[18:58] <+RobeGateWars> thats my point exactly, I think players should post what is in the best interest of the game
[18:59] <+RobeGateWars> not what suits them personally or suits their alliance personally
[18:59] <+RobeGateWars> individual perception does not equat or objective reality
[18:59] <+RobeGateWars> So the braoder the input the better
[18:59] <+RobeGateWars> to reduce bias
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[18:59] <~adminHere> discussion coming up
[18:59] <+RobeGateWars> i can tel yu one thing
[19:00] <+RobeGateWars> my out logs for farming have not changed one bit since the repair update was put in place
[19:00] <+RobeGateWars> so i do not think its as directly related to farming as was previously suggested
[19:01] <+RobeGateWars> a player with too much naq out for their defence will be farmed by the first person who sees it whether their strike is 30t or 3t
[19:01] <+RobeGateWars> or even 1 attack weapon
[19:01] <~adminHere>
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=181012[19:01] <+RobeGateWars> thanks for discussing major updates in forums Jason
01[19:01] <&Paul> jason
01[19:01] <&Paul> u might wanna put that in the ingame msg thing u see when u first login
01[19:01] <&Paul> on cmd page
[19:01] <+RobeGateWars> I am sure everyone appreciates the opportunity to be heard
[19:02] <~adminHere> robe - yes, but the person with too much is now a bit higher than before, is all
[19:02] <+RobeGateWars> I think all players have a responsibility to visit forums and keep informed
[19:02] <~adminHere> welcome robe
will try my best to keep it up
[19:02] <+RobeGateWars> surely we dont need to baby sit them with command function messages about every debate
[19:02] <~adminHere> and -- i am still not against a special 'you got no defense, you are easy' rating
01[19:02] <&Paul> thats ur perogative most people hate forums
[19:02] <~adminHere> yes i think ingame msg is a good thing
[19:03] <~adminHere> as soon as i update the 'java chat'
[19:03] <+RobeGateWars> Thanks for your time Jason and have a good weekend
[19:03] <~adminHere> to one that does not security error
[19:03] <~adminHere> thanks robe - as always!
01[19:03] <&Paul> ill be workign with u on that when the port is done big guy
[19:03] <+RobeGateWars> Nice see you again Paul
[19:03] <~adminHere>
[19:03] <~adminHere> thx paul.
[19:03] <~adminHere> ok folks - i gotta run
[19:03] <~adminHere> sorry again to cut it so quick
01[19:03] <&Paul> back to debuggin
01[19:03] <&Paul>
[19:03] <+TacticalCommander> but I wanted to talk about the 1 year server
[19:03] <+SuperSaiyan> *appears out of shadows* cya admin >.>
[19:03] <+RobeGateWars> Paul can you post both convos in the IRC section of forums for both meetings as Tekki is away
[19:04] <~adminHere> tactical - thats still in 'idea' stage
but ...
01[19:04] <&Paul> i can
[19:04] <~adminHere> can take to foruM?
[19:04] <+RobeGateWars> yes
[19:04] <~adminHere> anyway -has to wait today
