Increase the realm size growth limit

[Neimenljivi]

I think if we want to give new players a chance to catch up and actually be able to attack someone we have to increase the realm size growth limit. Honestly 3 bil planets is a puny amount nowadays seeing how many people are already over 20b planets.
I do believe the limit should be changed to at least 10b planets which would give newer players a chance to at least be able to farm people so they at least have a small chance of catching up the older accounts, even though it will be virtually impossible for anyone.

That being said - it is also a bit harsh how slow one grows after reaching 3b planets. The formula was good when there were a lot smaller planet amounts, but now it's ridiculous. How can a new account even have the slightest hope to catch some medium sized accounts when a newbie can not even get strike high enough to farm some smaller-mid sized accounts in order to get CEF and charisma up?

I do believe the formula and limits are more than outdated.

EDIT: I just realized there was a suggestion section for ascended..Can a mod please move the topic there?

~N

[Angelis~]

If you change both the cap on planets before the slowing growth rate starts And the growth rate it self the new people still wont catch up. I'd say the average CER is 1.3 bil so those who have it or more will skyrocket.

[Neimenljivi]

Then perhaps only the growth limit should be upped. That way the new accounts can at least get to a stage where they are able to catch up with the older accounts, and perhaps make the growth rate substantially smaller for each 5 or 10b planets one is over the cap, that way the growth rate won't get smaller in a linear fashion and thus will make other people be able to catch up a bit faster.

Or reintroduce raiding, but this time perhaps only of the undeveloped planets and in your planets count range (ie those with 20b planets can only raid people between 18 and 22b planets, those with 4b planets can only raid those from 0 to 8b planets and so on, the higher the planet count, the lower the +- from your planet count you can raid)

~N

[GeneralChaos]

You cant reintroduce raiding its way to easy to exploit, even when a limt is set,

The problem with realm size is if its increased to 10bill, the people who have 20-30bill planets who are probably only making less than 1% of there total will suddenly make more, so it would have to be increased to 10bill but when you hit that 10bill your rate rapidly drops so that those who are already above it continue to grow at what they currently are, else nothing is achieved.

[Neimenljivi]

That's why a certain limit would be added for each 10b units in your realm. In other words - you'd grow faster from 10b to 20b, but at 20b mark your CER growth percentage would drop to the same percentage as it is currently with 20b, the only difference is that the percentage doesn't go down as fast as it goes now, the only major drops are at each next 10b army size. So you'd be growing faster, as the percentage wouldn't drop down as fast as it currently does, up until 30b mark where again the percentage would drop.
For example (numbers in the example are definitely not correct as I'm making them up): One currently grows at 50% pace once they reach 3b mark. And it goes down, say, 5% each 1b additional army size up to, say, 10b army size. That means after 10b army size one only grows with 15% of original army size. Now one would grow with 100% up to 10b army size and after 10b army size the percentage would drop to 15%. From 10 to 20b army size, the percentage changes by 1% for each next bil army size. So at 20b army size one would grow with 5% of original CER. Now the percentage would either stay fixed (so 15% up until 20b army size) or change for only 0,5% per 1b additional army size, until 20b when it drops down to 5%. From 20b to 30b the percentage drops 0,3% per bil. So at 30b mark one grows with 2% CER. Now the percentage would, again, either stay fixed (so one would still grow with 5% of original CER) or would drop like 0,15% per bil units, until one reaches 30b when it drops down to 2% CER. And so on.

That way it is easier to catch those who have huge army sizes, as they won't really grow faster, So while the top accounts will grow a tad bit faster (or less slowly, depends how you take it), and as fast as other accounts, in relative sense, the absolute sense will mean one gets like 100 mil units for a longer time, just as top accounts get 10 mil units for a longer time, but the absolute difference (90 mil units per day) will stay the same for a longer time thus smaller players will have a chance to catch up.

If the growth percentage was linear, then none of this mattered. However the growth percentage doesn't change linearly (otherwise there'd be a max army size as well) thus the change would help smaller players a lot more than it would help bigger players in actual planet count which is obviously the most important. They'd still be as hard to catch as now, the only difference is that the difference in planet counts would decrease from 20b to 5b a lot faster than it would right now as at the moment it would take years to catch someone. So those with smaller CER (like anyone that hasn't been playing ascended big time for at least 2 years) would be able to decrease the difference in planet count a lot more because right now the differences are just too big.

I hope it's written clear enough for people to be able to understand exactly what I think lol.

~N

[Sol]

I think if we want to give new players a chance to catch up and actually be able to attack someone we have to increase the realm size growth limit. Honestly 3 bil planets is a puny amount nowadays seeing how many people are already over 20b planets.
I do believe the limit should be changed to at least 10b planets which would give newer players a chance to at least be able to farm people so they at least have a small chance of catching up the older accounts, even though it will be virtually impossible for anyone.

That being said - it is also a bit harsh how slow one grows after reaching 3b planets. The formula was good when there were a lot smaller planet amounts, but now it's ridiculous. How can a new account even have the slightest hope to catch some medium sized accounts when a newbie can not even get strike high enough to farm some smaller-mid sized accounts in order to get CEF and charisma up?

I do believe the formula and limits are more than outdated.

EDIT: I just realized there was a suggestion section for ascended..Can a mod please move the topic there?

~N

As a general comment, the way CER happened before was there was a 2 bill cap, after that people would be decreasing relative to that 2 bill cap.
I changed it so the cap is 3 bill and people start decreasing relative to the 2 bill cap, this means people get to hold on more with their uncapped CER, but still follow the decline like the others (and get hit by the decline where it should be as if the cap was 2 bill, hence the sharp % drop).
I'm not keen on changing the base formula either, I would like to keep it how it is (mostly anyway).

As for your opening post, ascended isn't like main, we have 6 direct approaches at buckling an opponent, with 3 stats needing to be buffed up to withhold all approaches (mind you I hope to fix one of these when i get the time ). A 10 bill planet count can pretty much take on anything as well. People don't really need to gun for a massive planet count, even to get the goodies from a fortified opponent, unless the user really only wants to get a massive planet count for the sake of having one. Ascended is more of a 1 on 1, if you want to destroy someones heavily fortified defence then you must be prepared to rack up some substantial losses, the beauty of it is you regenerate planets proportionally MUCH faster then you would on main, so it just renders you disabled for a week or two.
People who have got the planets to where they are have probably earned it by maxing their charisma and fleets and just sat there with practically no defence for ages. I just don't really see why everyone should be hell bent on catching up to them...
Making the cap 5-6 bill I would probably agree, people are moving on with their general size (for war'ing, farming and the like) and so most new people need to catch up to that threshold quite fast, but attempting to bring people up to 10 bill or so is a bit too much. For now anyway. This would help expand farming grounds on ascended as well, so most of you would agree with it anyway

[Neimenljivi]

Well the problem I see is that those with enough naq to actually be worth farming and that a new account is able to build a decent CER have like 800 mil supers in defence. For me that's not really a problem because I've got a nice Attack Skill, so I just wait to have enough units and train them all into supers and farm the whole server, I don't mind being DM'ed afterwards. But for a newbie, even with quite decent, but still nowhere near average levels for most of the people, that usually means at least 1b supers in attack - that's 5b units. Not to mention it doesn't give a whole lot of room for having other units (say one has 300 mil CER which is not bad for a newbie, that takes like what, a month to get?). So one is pretty much ready to lose all of his or her units anyway, when they want to farm active accounts which are basically the only accounts with naq worth to farm for in the open. Unless it's a 15+b account which can afford 1b units in attack, 1b in defence and the other 5b in covert and assassins.
An alternative, perhaps, to that would be to increase income of inactives by, say, training their units as resource planets. There's a nice way for inactives on Quantum to be worth farming whole era long - their UP gets increased each day so it stays 1/6 of top UP. 10% of units gained per day get automatically trained into miners. This ensures that they are farmable whole era long and that, if someone was inactive and became active, it doesn't automatically give them a better standing point than those that were active all era long. Perhaps something to discuss and consider?

As for catching up - well right now it's impossible, no matter even if you have the highest CER - it'd take years. I'm not saying all the hard work of the biggest accounts should be reduced to nothing - I'm just saying it might be nice to reduce the gap between the oldest, biggest accounts, and the newest accounts

~N

[Angelis~]

Why don't you just ask him to remove the 1/5th rule?

[Neimenljivi]

In most of the cases that wouldn't work because one with 5x bigger army size usually has defence too big for the smaller account anyway. And it does protect the smaller players.

~N

[wardyward]

Why don't you just ask him to remove the 1/5th rule?

I agree to that ^^^^

bring back 130% power increase thats how we all got so big in the first place, but have a limit to how it can be used

[Angelis~]

How does the 130% rank modifier help you grow? It will just bring back people sitting statless so they always get the 130% instead of the 60%. It limits those who have stats and encourages others to stay without stats.

If you want to be able to farm those that the extra 30% would allow you to build a bigger strike. If you worry about the planets your putting into your strike being destroyed... Dont take the risk training them. Everything has a risk.

In most of the cases that wouldn't work because one with 5x bigger army size usually has defence too big for the smaller account anyway. And it does protect the smaller players.

~N

Yes thats why they would need a bigger planet count to hit those with defenses. But it would also give the new guys/gals to farm all those inactive large realms out there. I'd say about 80% of my farm list have 0 defenses... the list is about 1/6 of the entire ascended server.

Im fine with whatever people decide. Im all for helping new people in the ascended realm. Most people leave it in the first few weeks because of the varies difficulties the realm has in the beginning.

[Sol]

Well the problem I see is that those with enough naq to actually be worth farming and that a new account is able to build a decent CER have like 800 mil supers in defence. For me that's not really a problem because I've got a nice Attack Skill, so I just wait to have enough units and train them all into supers and farm the whole server, I don't mind being DM'ed afterwards. But for a newbie, even with quite decent, but still nowhere near average levels for most of the people, that usually means at least 1b supers in attack - that's 5b units. Not to mention it doesn't give a whole lot of room for having other units (say one has 300 mil CER which is not bad for a newbie, that takes like what, a month to get?). So one is pretty much ready to lose all of his or her units anyway, when they want to farm active accounts which are basically the only accounts with naq worth to farm for in the open. Unless it's a 15+b account which can afford 1b units in attack, 1b in defence and the other 5b in covert and assassins.
An alternative, perhaps, to that would be to increase income of inactives by, say, training their units as resource planets. There's a nice way for inactives on Quantum to be worth farming whole era long - their UP gets increased each day so it stays 1/6 of top UP. 10% of units gained per day get automatically trained into miners. This ensures that they are farmable whole era long and that, if someone was inactive and became active, it doesn't automatically give them a better standing point than those that were active all era long. Perhaps something to discuss and consider?

As for catching up - well right now it's impossible, no matter even if you have the highest CER - it'd take years. I'm not saying all the hard work of the biggest accounts should be reduced to nothing - I'm just saying it might be nice to reduce the gap between the oldest, biggest accounts, and the newest accounts

~N

If the greatest person with the planet count has just about all of their planets untrained or income, which they do, and they tend to farm as well building CER then yeah it is impossible, just like it would be on main. Although as soon as they throw it in assass and defence the possibility to level them comes back. Although i would expect paramount losses for the attacker(s). Why shouldnt they as well since it would take the person to build that very large planet count, quite a time to be where they are.
Alternatively we can just increase the amount of income untrained planets give. Might fix a few problems for the short term.

On the flip side though, why should we be letting smallish/newish accounts being able to take on the larger accounts? That would be similar in main to a large covert bonus for people with crap covert levels, to an extent it would be beneficial for people but there will be all the others that have worked for it or bought it and then having it practically nulled. Some people just want to be left alone from the noobs .

Plus these noobies get a good AP-LF conversion now anyway. Charisma charisma charisma!

[Neimenljivi]

It should still be just as costly, and I'm not talking about new accounts being able to take on the largest accounts, I'm talking about being able to successfully attack an average account. Not straight away, of course, but after a few months it is a bit depressing if one can't do that.

Perhaps consider the alternative which would be similar to what's been made on Quantum.

~N

[Sol]

It should still be just as costly, and I'm not talking about new accounts being able to take on the largest accounts, I'm talking about being able to successfully attack an average account. Not straight away, of course, but after a few months it is a bit depressing if one can't do that.

Perhaps consider the alternative which would be similar to what's been made on Quantum.

~N

I'll get some planet count averages from AJ, see where people are at roughly.

What's being made for Q? Link me almighty linker!!

[Neimenljivi]

An alternative, perhaps, to that would be to increase income of inactives by, say, training their units as resource planets. There's a nice way for inactives on Quantum to be worth farming whole era long - their UP gets increased each day so it stays 1/6 of top UP. 10% of units gained per day get automatically trained into miners. This ensures that they are farmable whole era long and that, if someone was inactive and became active, it doesn't automatically give them a better standing point than those that were active all era long. Perhaps something to discuss and consider?

That is done in Quantum and it has assured inactives can be farmed whole era long

~N