How fast should it be possible to descend someone?

[renegadze]

Was an example of that it is possible for multiple people to descend a single person over time, and the excuse of but the attacker needs to do stuff to is not a valid one considering there is only one defender yet can be an infinite number of attackers.

Just as the attacker can get someone to take over for him the defender can find someone to block for him. You just admitted to what I said early by stating the attacker has no excuse... so its okay for the defender to have a real life, but not the attacker.

You are saying that a person should need to have a blocker ready every day? That's idiotic. If you are attacking, you can easily ask people for help, however unless you start to get a 24 hour notice before every decension attempt, it's going to be a random hit that they will try to get to you before you login or notice. Having someone block you every day is a bit much just to stop yourself from descending. Think about what you are suggesting.

I am not arguing that it should be longer to descend people, only that the maximum life force taken in a hit be lowered in that it takes longer to descend someone.

did you seriously imply that you don't want it to take longer but then admit that what you are suggesting would in fact do that? sounds like doublespeak if I ever knew so.

I am suggesting that it take longer to descend someone at minimum (through minimum attack %), yes, but not that it take longer between hits. Those two things are quite different, as one affects the time of those that are active, yet the other is just setting a minimum amount of time that it is possible to be descended in. While it may sound the same, it is quite different.

This does nothing to effect those who are active or built up at all, and considering how much the recent updates made it shorter to descend even actives, I see no reason why it should not take 12 hours.

It does actually effect people, of all types of activity, not just anyone specifically. Seeing as for a few years people had become complacent to the fact they were undescendable (and advertised that in selling threads), i think the way it is now has given it the justice it has deserved. It would be better for lone wolves if the time was shortened, but to increase it would not be the direction to take IMO. Long before the first ToC increase (roughly 2.5-3 years ago) it was possible to descend. But eventually that ability was gone, and gone for far to long. As the server grows in age the ability to be able to descend should be kept in perspective and even actives should be at risk.

I am not saying that it should go back to the way it was, however I also think there should be a minimum amount of time set at 12 hours that everyone and anyone should have before they are descended.

The trouble with these changes, are people that post knowing full well they login within every 12 hours, so therefore have just become undescendable again.

So there is now a bonus for not actually playing the ascended server......AGAIN.

As has been stated a number of times, you need a strike 20x larger then a def to descend someone, how about if you don't wanna get descended you try building a def? I realise for some this would be breaking the habit of a lifetime (on either server). but a sniping/lazy playing style should not be rewarded.

It has always been impossible to descend someone that actively plays ascended, I don't see why it should be any other way. In fact, it is kinda stupid if someone who is actively playing ascended to not actually not to upgrade their account so it will bring about a change where more people build up most likely.

As for the defense, yes that is a possibility, however I think it took someone about 5 minutes to dm my defense to a low enough level to start a descension hit on me. The fact that it removes 10% of your planets and has no delay, even if you are on critical, means that it is quite easy to remove a defense, especially if your enemy doesn't mind losses to get it done. Based on ascendeds play, sniping is rewarded. The only thing the 20x larger rule does is just delay the attacker a few more minutes. In fact, I believe at least 3 of the last 4 people to attempt to descend me have been running with mostly if not all 0 stats because of rank mod in ascended (yes I know that doesn't matter for descension hits anyway).

Yes they run with 0 stats, but not with 0 planets! It would be the same if you had 40mil def supers on main...all armed, then sold the weps. Sure an attacker has no def to clean out, but they have some nice units to slice through.

Active farmers on ascended will not DM a high def, unless A) at war B) you have a stupid amount of DMU out. It's just not economical, not least the fact you're more open for retaliation, and having your strike planets wiped out. Of the 3-4 people that attempted to descend you, How quick would the quickest have been assuming you had not logged on?

[BMMJ13]

Yes they run with 0 stats, but not with 0 planets! It would be the same if you had 40mil def supers on main...all armed, then sold the weps. Sure an attacker has no def to clean out, but they have some nice units to slice through.

Active farmers on ascended will not DM a high def, unless A) at war B) you have a stupid amount of DMU out. It's just not economical, not least the fact you're more open for retaliation, and having your strike planets wiped out. Of the 3-4 people that attempted to descend you, How quick would the quickest have been assuming you had not logged on?

If they have 0 stats, they usually don't have too much worth actually killing. I know I personally always have some assassins trained as long as I have something else that can be killed with assassins. I think the most was about 500 mil, which wasn't really worth it at the time. And if they just do dm, they can remove much of your own defense without even having to train anything, yet be able to untrain the extra assassins when done. That point was only that it is quite easy for a defense to be removed with that 20x rule, not that you can't do anything in response though.

Yes, I understand active farmers often won't DM or even descend someone unless they give them a reason, but we aren't exactly talking about descesion being used besides during war right?

Those to attempt me since the update with the amount of time taken at that time:
1. 11 hits (25 hours)
2. 5 hits (10 hours)
3. 17 hits (40 hours)
4. 8 hits (21 hours)

[renegadze]

Yes they run with 0 stats, but not with 0 planets! It would be the same if you had 40mil def supers on main...all armed, then sold the weps. Sure an attacker has no def to clean out, but they have some nice units to slice through.

Active farmers on ascended will not DM a high def, unless A) at war B) you have a stupid amount of DMU out. It's just not economical, not least the fact you're more open for retaliation, and having your strike planets wiped out. Of the 3-4 people that attempted to descend you, How quick would the quickest have been assuming you had not logged on?

If they have 0 stats, they usually don't have too much worth actually killing. I know I personally always have some assassins trained as long as I have something else that can be killed with assassins. I think the most was about 500 mil, which wasn't really worth it at the time. And if they just do dm, they can remove much of your own defense without even having to train anything, yet be able to untrain the extra assassins when done. That point was only that it is quite easy for a defense to be removed with that 20x rule, not that you can't do anything in response though.

Yes, I understand active farmers often won't DM or even descend someone unless they give them a reason, but we aren't exactly talking about descesion being used besides during war right?

Those to attempt me since the update with the amount of time taken at that time:
1. 11 hits (25 hours)
2. 5 hits (10 hours)
3. 17 hits (40 hours)
4. 8 hits (21 hours)

So 1 out of 4 could have possibly descended you in under 12 hours? and that's without you doing anything extra to your account? To the person who is now taking 40 hours, for them you are "effectively" undescendable.

[BMMJ13]

Yes they run with 0 stats, but not with 0 planets! It would be the same if you had 40mil def supers on main...all armed, then sold the weps. Sure an attacker has no def to clean out, but they have some nice units to slice through.

Active farmers on ascended will not DM a high def, unless A) at war B) you have a stupid amount of DMU out. It's just not economical, not least the fact you're more open for retaliation, and having your strike planets wiped out. Of the 3-4 people that attempted to descend you, How quick would the quickest have been assuming you had not logged on?

If they have 0 stats, they usually don't have too much worth actually killing. I know I personally always have some assassins trained as long as I have something else that can be killed with assassins. I think the most was about 500 mil, which wasn't really worth it at the time. And if they just do dm, they can remove much of your own defense without even having to train anything, yet be able to untrain the extra assassins when done. That point was only that it is quite easy for a defense to be removed with that 20x rule, not that you can't do anything in response though.

Yes, I understand active farmers often won't DM or even descend someone unless they give them a reason, but we aren't exactly talking about descesion being used besides during war right?

Those to attempt me since the update with the amount of time taken at that time:
1. 11 hits (25 hours)
2. 5 hits (10 hours)
3. 17 hits (40 hours)
4. 8 hits (21 hours)

So 1 out of 4 could have possibly descended you in under 12 hours? and that's without you doing anything extra to your account? To the person who is now taking 40 hours, for them you are "effectively" undescendable.

Yes, but who do people have to worry about being descended by? The worst TOC or the best? With that, no matter how much faster admin makes it possible to descend someone, you should have a minimum of 12 hours no matter what before you get descended. This update has made ita lot easier to descend people even for those with less than the best TOC, I just feel that there should be a bottom limit to how fast that is based on allowing someone who is active to stop themselves from being descended.

[renegadze]

Yes they run with 0 stats, but not with 0 planets! It would be the same if you had 40mil def supers on main...all armed, then sold the weps. Sure an attacker has no def to clean out, but they have some nice units to slice through.

Active farmers on ascended will not DM a high def, unless A) at war B) you have a stupid amount of DMU out. It's just not economical, not least the fact you're more open for retaliation, and having your strike planets wiped out. Of the 3-4 people that attempted to descend you, How quick would the quickest have been assuming you had not logged on?

If they have 0 stats, they usually don't have too much worth actually killing. I know I personally always have some assassins trained as long as I have something else that can be killed with assassins. I think the most was about 500 mil, which wasn't really worth it at the time. And if they just do dm, they can remove much of your own defense without even having to train anything, yet be able to untrain the extra assassins when done. That point was only that it is quite easy for a defense to be removed with that 20x rule, not that you can't do anything in response though.

Yes, I understand active farmers often won't DM or even descend someone unless they give them a reason, but we aren't exactly talking about descesion being used besides during war right?

Those to attempt me since the update with the amount of time taken at that time:
1. 11 hits (25 hours)
2. 5 hits (10 hours)
3. 17 hits (40 hours)
4. 8 hits (21 hours)

So 1 out of 4 could have possibly descended you in under 12 hours? and that's without you doing anything extra to your account? To the person who is now taking 40 hours, for them you are "effectively" undescendable.

Yes, but who do people have to worry about being descended by? The worst TOC or the best? With that, no matter how much faster admin makes it possible to descend someone, you should have a minimum of 12 hours no matter what before you get descended. This update has made ita lot easier to descend people even for those with less than the best TOC, I just feel that there should be a bottom limit to how fast that is based on allowing someone who is active to stop themselves from being descended.

Earlier on you said this

It has always been impossible to descend someone that actively plays ascended, I don't see why it should be any other way.

now you say this

I just feel that there should be a bottom limit to how fast that is based on allowing someone who is active to stop themselves from being descended.

Is that not a complete contradiction?

Also if you put as much effort into farming DMU as you do moaning about being easier to descend.....guess what....

[BMMJ13]

I said the first part in response to someone saying that the limit on hits should be removed, as I believe the second part should be true. It's kind of hard to be active enough to stop yourself if someone descends you while you are asleep or at work with no chance to stop it. Perhaps if you read what I wrote instead of quoting pieces you would understand my meaning. If you spent as much time thinking as you do saying stupid **Filtered**, well then maybe you'd be a genius.

[Robe]

I voted 12 hours as the bare minimum.
If you work on your account and build your personal levels then it should take up to 24 hours.

[Rabbid Thom]

As far as i know it's now changed to 3 eons (hours) between hits still at 2/5ths their LF reserves

he result is that you did the maximum amount of damage possible on them - two fifths of their total possible life force reserve

It has will finish in 3 real hours (or 3 eons ingame time)

so
your all now undeascenable in under 6 hours, if you have any form of LF recovery this will be 9 hours, and well over 12 if you played ascended for more than 2 minutes

so i think everyone whos active will take more than 12 hours to descend (providing you log on when you wake up) and everyone else, around the 750 mark has gained about 8 more hours untill they have to log in

[Iƒrit]

[spoiler2=]

Was an example of that it is possible for multiple people to descend a single person over time, and the excuse of but the attacker needs to do stuff to is not a valid one considering there is only one defender yet can be an infinite number of attackers.

Just as the attacker can get someone to take over for him the defender can find someone to block for him. You just admitted to what I said early by stating the attacker has no excuse... so its okay for the defender to have a real life, but not the attacker.

[/spoiler2]
You are saying that a person should need to have a blocker ready every day? That's idiotic. If you are attacking, you can easily ask people for help, however unless you start to get a 24 hour notice before every decension attempt, it's going to be a random hit that they will try to get to you before you login or notice. Having someone block you every day is a bit much just to stop yourself from descending. Think about what you are suggesting.

I didn't suggest anything, its already part of the game. It used fairly often in fact. I have made many points on how to avoid deascension and pointed out why 12 hours handicap is not needed, because through effort you can achieve that already.

[spoiler2=]

I am not arguing that it should be longer to descend people, only that the maximum life force taken in a hit be lowered in that it takes longer to descend someone.

did you seriously imply that you don't want it to take longer but then admit that what you are suggesting would in fact do that? sounds like doublespeak if I ever knew so.

[/spoiler2]
I am suggesting that it take longer to descend someone at minimum (through minimum attack %), yes, but not that it take longer between hits. Those two things are quite different, as one affects the time of those that are active, yet the other is just setting a minimum amount of time that it is possible to be descended in. While it may sound the same, it is quite different.

Thank you for clarifying, and my apologies for not completely comprehending. At any rate an increase in the handicap is not needed.

[spoiler2=]

This does nothing to effect those who are active or built up at all, and considering how much the recent updates made it shorter to descend even actives, I see no reason why it should not take 12 hours.

It does actually effect people, of all types of activity, not just anyone specifically. Seeing as for a few years people had become complacent to the fact they were undescendable (and advertised that in selling threads), i think the way it is now has given it the justice it has deserved. It would be better for lone wolves if the time was shortened, but to increase it would not be the direction to take IMO. Long before the first ToC increase (roughly 2.5-3 years ago) it was possible to descend. But eventually that ability was gone, and gone for far to long. As the server grows in age the ability to be able to descend should be kept in perspective and even actives should be at risk.

[/spoiler2]
I am not saying that it should go back to the way it was, however I also think there should be a minimum amount of time set at 12 hours that everyone and anyone should have before they are descended.

I have made several points as to why increasing the handicap to 12 hours is foolish, and how one can go about achieving that time without increasing the handicap, but instead of applying effort to achieve that people are moving to have it handed to them.

Nothing else to say really, Hope admin looks at feedback if he really considers this an option to move towards.

[Sarevok]

I lol'd at the people that said anything under 8 hours

Clearly only sleep 4 or less hours/night, thus can defend themselves with a 4 hours minimum

[Tekki]

I meant for this topic to be linked to the how many hits one, but I always thought about 12 hours is good. It's a bit harsh for those who work really long long hours, but allows most people a good amount of time to sleep and stuff, and that is assuming that the person trying to descend you hits you the minute after you log out.

I don't really understand the people who say it should be a shorter time simply because that would be unhealthy.

[Sarevok]

I think 12 hours is good. I mean obviously it'll be hard to get it right with the variation in the reserves recovery, but if you can hit every 2-2.5 hours, and take out like 25%/hit, counting for the reserves recovery, that'd give us about 10-12.5 hours unless their recovery is more then 20% of their reserves every 5 turns

[BMMJ13]

I think 12 hours is good. I mean obviously it'll be hard to get it right with the variation in the reserves recovery, but if you can hit every 2-2.5 hours, and take out like 25%/hit, counting for the reserves recovery, that'd give us about 10-12.5 hours unless their recovery is more then 20% of their reserves every 5 turns

In order to do 12 hours without making it take longer/shorter for those that are active, you would need to hit every 3 hours with the max being 1/4 (25%). This would mean that 4 hits would remove 100%, but because any defense levels would push it over, it would be 5 hits. 5 hits with 3 hours between hits would take 12 hours total to descend. This is what I personally think the minimum should be.