General discussion...

[[KMA]Avenger]

No basis in fact?

It's historical fact, and until you approach the modern economic and political situation from a point of historical fact you just wont get it....

Ivy league (<no idea what that means) eh? so hows the indoctrination and mind control/programming working out for you?

So your a communist...the founding fathers are-safe to say-rolling in their graves!

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[Morbius Liadon]

For ref KMA

The US Ivy League Universities are equivalent to what we refer to in the UK as 'Red Brick' Universities

So for example;

The US has places like;

Havard
Yale
MIT

The UK has places like;

Oxford
Cambridge
York

It's usually used in the context of previous posts by people who wish to try and establish how superior they are to you by virtue of their (usually very expensive) education.

I wasn't boasting or saying I was superior, but he told me to go study, and I told him I was and that I was studying at a prestigious school that I am honored to go to. And yes, my school is quite expensive, and thank god that they have a lot of grants and loans, or I could never go there. Don't act like you know anything about me, and I am not ashamed that I am going to a good school, and its not arrogant for me to be proud that I am going to one of the best school in the world.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Good for you!

No sarcasm or joking intended or implied

I myself am self educated, everything i know i taught myself because i never went to school, even when i was there physically-mentally i was always somewhere else, except on sports days


As for the modern education system...that is a joke! You go to school and they have you memorize the information THEY give you and if you try to learn other things you are lambasted. so you learn what they want you to learn and then after some years of being fed information you are then made to sit a test to see how well you remembered that information by regurgitating the information on demand....and they call that an education!
If you want my humble advice, find the biggest dictionary you can and read it from cover to cover...that's an education.



@KF, thanks for the heads up, i was being lazy yesterday and should have simply looked it up.

[~[ Greased Gerbil ]~]

As for the modern education system...that is a joke! You go to school and they have you memorize the information THEY give you and if you try to learn other things you are lambasted. so you learn what they want you to learn and then after some years of being fed information you are then made to sit a test to see how well you remembered that information by regurgitating the information on demand....and they call that an education!
If you want my humble advice, find the biggest dictionary you can and read it from cover to cover...that's an education.

Hmmmm.... the problem is, you're looking at that education paradigm as a route to its own self-determined destination. Trust me, I felt the same way about my degree. I was disgusted to discover that I was expected to just read and reference. They weren't particularly interested in my opinion.

Formal education is nothing more than one extended literature review. What it does is peak your interest and encourage you to broaden your mind. You are bound to run into something you want to explore. Education exposes us to what has already been discovered and is currently understood. It is a preparation for us to use our own talent to change the boundaries of understanding.

The greatest things you will learn in this class will not be on the test

[[KMA]Avenger]

I see the education system similar to a race horse breeder/owner. they breed a horse, raise and train that horse for success, then enter said race horse into competitions....by the same token, we are raised to school age, shipped off to school and taught things that ultimately do not matter, we are then thrown out of school at a certain age (unless we choose further education) and indoctrinated to enter the human rat race with the aim of being successful...and they call it education!

It is nothing more than being indoctrinated so when we reach school leaving age we can then enter a world of employment that mirrors what we were taught at school.



When i say "school" that covers primary (<kindergarten) to university and higher forms of education.

[Death]

[KMA]Avenger hits the nail on the head. I will make a segue, as this discussion is heading into this direction.
All life is without purpose. Human life is in this regard no different from animal life. It all ends. What is left after an organism dies, serves a purpose no different from fertiliser. Does the Universe change because we live? What purpose does the Universe have?

You can argue that 'human Life' has value, because of the people around us whose lives are touched by our own lives. Be that as it may, what makes the 'people around us' so valuable? They are no different from us, or from animals, or from mossy growth on rocks.

The only thing of intrinsic value is 'Death'. I am not saying that out of some egocentric view of the cosmos, but because Death makes Life valuable. The only thing valuable is something that is 'finite'. To illustrate; infinite gold is without value, because anyone can possess any amount they want. The value of gold lies in its rarity, the fact that there is a finite amount of it that we know of.
Back to 'Life'. In and of itself it is as worthless as the Universe. Factor 'Death' into the equation, and 'Life' becomes a finite resource. Valuable.

Back to 'the human rat race'. Paraphrasing, 'the human rat race' is an ongoing 'struggle' to obtain more material possessions, peer recognition, knowledge, or whatever petty thing a human could value in this Universe. In short, the goal of the rat race is to 'improve your standing in life'. The human rat race is worthless to the Universe, worthless to humanity as a whole, and essentially worthless to the individual as well. Why? Because 'the rat race' is never-ending. Sure, individuals may die, but the rat race continues. It does not care whether you live or die. In fact, there will always be more people who value an individuals Death more than that individuals Life, against the logic of Life being a finite, precious resource. So if we established that Life has value only through Death, and yet our fellow humans are -as a rule- indifferent or even positive to our Life's end, what value does 'improving your standing in life' have to anyone but you? And if you hold Life as valuable, would humanity not be served more by your Death as it is by your Life? You cannot contribute to Life, but by removing your own Life from the grand scale, you provide an insignificant but existing benefit to all other Life. Life requires sustenance. Less Life, more sustenance for the 'rest'.
Regardless of all that, since no significant element of 'humanity' values your Life, you should not value theirs over your own. And even if you are so 'self-less', humanity is in itself an insignificant figure in the total balance of Life. Fact: You will die. Why hurry it along for the sake of equally worthless others?

Participate in the rat race as much or as little as you like. It has no significance, nor will it change the fate of humanity, nor will it affect the Universe.


As [KMA]Avenger said quite well, humanity's main activities resemble a breeding circuit: birth - school - do stuff - make babies - die. In the end, that is all we know to do.



To clear something up: [spoiler](The above does not detract from the tragedy that is the loss of any individual's life to the people around them. If anything, it reinforces that notion. No one deserves to die, and every death is a minor tragedy, its impact depending on your distance to the deceased. That did need clarification. I have no intention to harm or offend.)[/spoiler]

[semper]

The only thing of intrinsic value is 'Death'. I am not saying that out of some egocentric view of the cosmos, but because Death makes Life valuable.

Oh?

Before I continue I'm going to point out that i'm taking the position that your statement is in reference to living as opposed to life. The difference being your above statement in regards to living makes life empty, that as if without death it would be a meaningless existence without purpose. I disagree and I think people who make this statement are fairly inexperienced in living life itself.

In that one statement you're saying that anything we enjoy... learning, playing computer games, travelling, exploration, construction. It'd all be worthless without death. No. In a universe that's nearly infinite and is ever changing it's far beyond the imagination of any prudent human being to truly justify what you've said.

On the other hand if you mean an immortal would have no value for anothers life or living things... that they'd be remorseless to things begging for salvation or easily become genocidal tyrants. Again... I still disagree. I've met a lot fo older people, spent a great deal of time talking to them and if anything they seem to have a greater respect for life and youth even if they are more synical that the average bear. Now i'm not claiming for fact that this is a pattern that would continue indefinitely throughout the aeons, but it's a start.

(EDIT: Avenger, I realise that other debate thread is back up and running and i'll probably post later this week if I remember).

[[KMA]Avenger]

@Death, no offence was taken. i'm a big boy and capable of critical thinking without jumping to conclusions, or looking for offence and conflict where none exists....

Having said that, i-like Semper also disagree, but for differing reasons than Semper. i've been researching the nature of life/existence (ALL life, from seed to the largest tree, from the smallest insect to the largest mammals) and the nature of our reality. i wont post what i have found out so far, but what i have found out is also being backed up by mainstream science. what i will say is this, the physical universe and our own existence within it-is not what people think it is, it is not solid. anyone who has studied physics should know that our universe and everything in it is not solid, there is no such thing as solid.
If you want to know more send me a PM

@Semper, i've got allot of turmoil going on in my life at the moment and my mind is not as focused as it was when i started this thread. that's not to say i'm quitting the debate/discussion/whatever. i just can't be as passionate about it as i was when i started the thread...