Differences of socialism(s)?

[Brdavs]

Ob boy! someone's been brainwashed!

Funny coming from a guy washed so hard he can't disassociate forms of (totalitarian) government from socio-econimic models. There are plenty totalitarian states that practice capitalism. There are democratic countries that practice many aspects of socialism (also known as social democracies).

There's no point discussing this topic when all the education you guys seemingly have comes from the black and white propaganda flicks from the 50s lol.




Also you incarnate the jon stwearts comment form a while back perfectly lol.

If you have success, you built it. If you failed, the government ruined it for you . If you get a break, you deserve it. If THEY get a break, it's a handout and an entitlement. It's a baffling, willfully blind cognitive dissonance best summed up by Craig T. Nelson telling Glenn Beck, ‘I’ve been on food stamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No.’

[[KMA]Avenger]

The bottom line with govt (regardless of which type of govt) is about social and economic control...period!



Edit, you guys are so indoctrinated to think civilisation and moral and just society's are impossible without a govt sitting over you it's beyond belief!

Are you so hooked on having a govt that you cannot imagine a just and moral society could exist without rules and rule makers telling you how to live-what you can and cannot do?
Have you no moral compass of your own to guide you through life?
Can you not take responsibility for your own actions that you need to be told how to live by people dumber than you or me?
Can you not live without rules that threaten to punish you should you do something wrong? do you not know what is right and wrong?
Can you not see who needs help in society and help those people who need it without govt stealing your money and wealth and then redistributing it to inept, the lazy and the corrupt?

Anyone who needs some idiotic, corrupt, warmongering and downright dishonest group of bureaucrats to tell them how to live may as well go back to sucking their thumbs!


Edit2,

If ever there was a quote that was 100% accurate it's this one:


“Just look at us. Everything is backwards, everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, psychiatrists destroy minds, scientists destroy truth, major media destroys information, religions destroy spirituality and governments destroy freedom.”

― Michael Ellner


As you know mate, i'm anti EU for many reasons, but the pro-EU mob say the EU brings us together decreasing the chances of war and it also promotes trade. let me tell you something, trade went on between our nations well before the EU was even a twinkle in the eye of man, war will only end when the youth refuse to serve in the military.
As Woody Guthrie said: “I would like to see every single soldier on every single side, just take off your helmet, unbuckle your kit, lay down your rifle, and set down at the side of some shady lane, and say, nope, I ain’t a gonna kill nobody. Plenty of rich folks wants to fight. Give them the guns."

Then and only then will war be a thing of the past. Government is incapable of not acting without force, regardless if it's a democracy or a totalitarian or socialist form of Government, they ALL without exception use force to keep and maintain social order and control over the populace.


This is what i think the people need to do:

[Brdavs]

The bottom line with govt (regardless of which type of govt) is about social and economic control...period!



Edit, you guys are so indoctrinated to think civilisation and moral and just society's are impossible without a govt sitting over you it's beyond belief!

Are you so hooked on having a govt that you cannot imagine a just and moral society could exist without rules and rule makers telling you how to live-what you can and cannot do?
Have you no moral compass of your own to guide you through life?
Can you not take responsibility for your own actions that you need to be told how to live by people dumber than you or me?
Can you not live without rules that threaten to punish you should you do something wrong? do you not know what is right and wrong?
Can you not see who needs help in society and help those people who need it without govt stealing your money and wealth and then redistributing it to inept, the lazy and the corrupt?

Anyone who needs some idiotic, corrupt, warmongering and downright dishonest group of bureaucrats to tell them how to live may as well go back to sucking their thumbs!


Edit2,

If ever there was a quote that was 100% accurate it's this one:


“Just look at us. Everything is backwards, everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, psychiatrists destroy minds, scientists destroy truth, major media destroys information, religions destroy spirituality and governments destroy freedom.”

― Michael Ellner


As you know mate, i'm anti EU for many reasons, but the pro-EU mob say the EU brings us together decreasing the chances of war and it also promotes trade. let me tell you something, trade went on between our nations well before the EU was even a twinkle in the eye of man, war will only end when the youth refuse to serve in the military.
As Woody Guthrie said: “I would like to see every single soldier on every single side, just take off your helmet, unbuckle your kit, lay down your rifle, and set down at the side of some shady lane, and say, nope, I ain’t a gonna kill nobody. Plenty of rich folks wants to fight. Give them the guns."

Then and only then will war be a thing of the past. Government is incapable of not acting without force, regardless if it's a democracy or a totalitarian or socialist form of Government, they ALL without exception use force to keep and maintain social order and control over the populace.


This is what i think the people need to do:

I consider myself an idealist but even healthy idealism must be tempered with a certain dose of reality.

Your perception of the world doesn't seem to go beyond your picket fence or your immediate neighborhood. Whether or not we here have a moral compass and an ethos you would approve off is irrelevant. Fact of the matter is not everyone does as evidenced that even the enforced societies rules that perfectly reflect the general consensus of being "moral rule" get violated in a statistically significant percentage. We all know thou shall not kill, want another mans wife or possessions. Murders, rape and theft all happen.

What on earth makes you think that if tomorrow social contract enforcement via government ceases, those will go away and not proliferate exponentially? Heck you've had your social experiment on a large scale, you saw what's happening in somalia after the central government collapsed completely. Christ, you've seen it in new orleans if you want a more "close to home" example.


And the irony of you accusing the EU/governments of hate mongering.... when you chastise social programs for stealing from you and giving to the "lazy, inept and corrupt" when they're doing exactly what you ask of individuals, they just don't see eye to eye with you on who "deserves" it.

This is exactly the labeling that has to be kept in check in this world. You would push idealism on us when you're plagued by socio-economic-cultural-values differentiation. And what happens when these groups you and people like you create come into conflict? When the "good honest moral" group has had enough of the "lazy and incompetent" or the "immoral" show up on the scene? What then? We revert to the "the tribe with the biggest sticks gets to forward it's genes" again? No wonder you don't want to give up your guns heh. This world your advocating has only one logical outcome and it's not the snapshot of the idyllic isolated wild west homestead. Problem is the world is bigger than that. And humanity as a whole deserves more than that. Even the lazy and morally questionable members of the species.

[[KMA]Avenger]

I think you've got the wrong impression of me big time. i'm not hiding behind a "picket fence" as you put it, or any other fence for that matter. i'm not an isolationist, nor do i support such a life style. that life style might have been acceptable before man was able to tame wild horse and other animals for transportation...to say nothing of more modern forms of transportation.

What i would like to see is govt put it in it's place and get the **Filtered** out of my life. for huge expensive and corrupt bureaucracies to be done away with. for the power govt has taken from us to be reclaimed by the people and for LOCAL govt to once again be the true power. in short, for state power to be decentralised. i would like to see guns GONE for good, but that cannot happen so long as govts allow corporations to manufacture and sell guns and all manor of weapons systems to other nations (including Al-Qaeda). when you leave guns in the hands of govts and the criminals and disarm the people you will get problems from not only the insane with mass shootings but you will also get an all powerful govt.

If people want guns removed from society then the govt should lead by example and get rid of theirs.

What i am ultimately advocating is true freedom...which by definition is NOT an imposition on anyone, i want my freedom and i want you and everyone else to be free as well.


Govt over the past few hundreds has slowly increased it's power because we are to stupid and give up that power. govt cannot do anything without our consent...that's a fact. so with that in mind, how much has govt grown over the past few hundred years and how much has the problems of society grown. look at hurricanes Katrina and sandy...what use is govt if it cannot help you after such a crises? govt is incapable at every level. nothing that govt touches works. govt is incapable...i would go so far to say...centralised govt has no intentions of helping anyone but itself.


Oh, and as for imposing things on people...not once have i ever advocated imposing anything but freedom on people, whereas you and others like you want to impose a govt and lifestyle on me and everyone else that is an absolute failure at every level.

And if the global problems we are facing these days does not convince you that centralised power does not work then nothing will...until they kick your door down and drag you off.