Fixing Covert Levels

[jedi~tank]

Totally defeats to the original point of ascending, personally I think the zeroing or reducing of MSs when you ascend should be reinstated, and more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for.

Your point maybe valid if you weren't already fully ascended... But since you are, you've nothing to loose from this. Unless all UnKnowns are now willing to have their MSs reset?

The key part of my statement was 'more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for' so I would not be fully ascended any more

Blame it on the covert levels LOL. Adding more ascensions is not a good idea, I wouldnt do it again and it takes too dam long to max out as it is. Instead of all of this make the attack ratio similar to ascended..

YOU CANNOT HIT AN ACCOUNT THAT IS FAR BENEATH YOUR ACCOUNT, AND AN ACCOUNT THAT IS FAR BENEATH YOURS CANNOT HIT YOU.

I dont think anyone is blaming the covert levels themselves, just the fact they are made so important by the killing off of good old fashioned massing by alliance repair/ppt.

Cant imagine what you have against extra ascensions, oh accept all that naq you spent on coverts, what is it now, 2.5 Quadrillion on the last 3 lol

As for the size or power limiter, it sounds good but has been discussed before. It works on ascended because ascended has no trading, in main trading makes it exploitable.

When are you going to stop ruining potential good discussions with your shots at people Mezz..wha I have spent on covert levels is irrelevant..what did I say? I wouldnt do it again and it takes too dam long to max out as it is

You guys are just dreaming up excuses and ideas to gain ground on anyone you cannot compete with.

The Attack ratio is the best way to go,,call it another galaxy, now there is a thought..make the houses galaxies and obviously if a player is in another galaxy he or she cannot be hit..

[Sarevok]

Totally defeats to the original point of ascending, personally I think the zeroing or reducing of MSs when you ascend should be reinstated, and more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for.

Your point maybe valid if you weren't already fully ascended... But since you are, you've nothing to loose from this. Unless all UnKnowns are now willing to have their MSs reset?

The key part of my statement was 'more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for' so I would not be fully ascended any more

Worth Quadrillions in bonus? Maybe a button to nuke any MS you encounter, be about the only thing worth it.
And more ascensions will just make the problem worse. More stats for less units, less units, less die on massing/sabbing, massing/sabbing become virtually ineffective.

[MEZZANINE]

Totally defeats to the original point of ascending, personally I think the zeroing or reducing of MSs when you ascend should be reinstated, and more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for.

Your point maybe valid if you weren't already fully ascended... But since you are, you've nothing to loose from this. Unless all UnKnowns are now willing to have their MSs reset?

The key part of my statement was 'more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for' so I would not be fully ascended any more

Blame it on the covert levels LOL. Adding more ascensions is not a good idea, I wouldnt do it again and it takes too dam long to max out as it is. Instead of all of this make the attack ratio similar to ascended..

YOU CANNOT HIT AN ACCOUNT THAT IS FAR BENEATH YOUR ACCOUNT, AND AN ACCOUNT THAT IS FAR BENEATH YOURS CANNOT HIT YOU.

I dont think anyone is blaming the covert levels themselves, just the fact they are made so important by the killing off of good old fashioned massing by alliance repair/ppt.

Cant imagine what you have against extra ascensions, oh accept all that naq you spent on coverts, what is it now, 2.5 Quadrillion on the last 3 lol

As for the size or power limiter, it sounds good but has been discussed before. It works on ascended because ascended has no trading, in main trading makes it exploitable.

When are you going to stop ruining potential good discussions with your shots at people Mezz..wha I have spent on covert levels is irrelevant..what did I say? I wouldnt do it again and it takes too dam long to max out as it is

You guys are just dreaming up excuses and ideas to gain ground on anyone you cannot compete with.

The Attack ratio is the best way to go,,call it another galaxy, now there is a thought..make the houses galaxies and obviously if a player is in another galaxy he or she cannot be hit..

1) This thread is not my idea or excuse for anything, I've made it clear I dont think there is anything wrong with Coverts, I just dont like that they have replaced massing. Alliance repair/PPT is the problem IMO

2) What you spend on covert is relevant since it clearly makes you bias against new ascensions as you personally would lose more than most if you had to ascend again.

3) Your multiple Galaxy idea does have merit, I read it last time you posted it, it would have been great earlier in the game, and far better than the current perg system. The only issue I see with it is the reduced number of players these days, not sure if there are enough active players for multiple galaxies anymore.

4) If I wanted to take a shot at you I would have said ''I bet Deathlok would have suddenly become active again if you had to start ascending your account again, just like last time'' lol

[MEZZANINE]

Totally defeats to the original point of ascending, personally I think the zeroing or reducing of MSs when you ascend should be reinstated, and more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for.

Your point maybe valid if you weren't already fully ascended... But since you are, you've nothing to loose from this. Unless all UnKnowns are now willing to have their MSs reset?

The key part of my statement was 'more ascensions added with bonuses worth making the sacrifice for' so I would not be fully ascended any more

Worth Quadrillions in bonus? Maybe a button to nuke any MS you encounter, be about the only thing worth it.
And more ascensions will just make the problem worse. More stats for less units, less units, less die on massing/sabbing, massing/sabbing become virtually ineffective.

Well I did once suggest a suicide ramming mission among other MS missions, different MS missions or attack types could be opened up by further ascension. Also new Techs a possibility, or even a return to race specific bonuses. Bit off topic here but many options for new ascensions have been discussed in other threads.

[Iƒrit]

I do not object, its probably the easiest way to handle the situation. I don't agree with it entirely but to be honest I'd take this over nothing done at all

[Tekki]

STUPIDEST IDEA YET!

You barely get any APP for covert levels on ascension and why should people who've ascended and had to rebuy quite a lot of stuff for them now be kicked in the teeth and told 'stupid moron, should have just waited'.

Covert levels are not over powered either. The problem we are facing is that for YEARS it was UNDERPOWERED and meant nothing, now it actually does something and no one's quite prepared to adjust their playing style to adapt. It takes a long time to get over the pre-conceived notions of years on the relative importance of covert level. Perhaps income needs to be tweaked to be inline with it since it did go up a while back but I'm against that as the naq is needed ingame so that people can get the covert levels.

And to whoever put in the suggestion of more ascensions - .... words just can't express how dumb that is given the problems all the extra ascensions have lead to already.

[Jim]

You barely get any APP for covert levels on ascension and why should people who've ascended and had to rebuy quite a lot of stuff for them now be kicked in the teeth and told 'stupid moron, should have just waited'.

Just addressing your point relevant to my suggestion here.
Whats APP?

I appreciate the idea about the whole "people have already done it will miss out"...but appreciate the point that it sucks this way. Most people that HAVE finished ascending did it when covert wasnt the biggest thing but MS was. And they got to keep their MS. And even if they had done it when Covert was the biggest thing, isnt it NICE to say "yeah it was rubbish for me, this would help you out."
STUPIDEST IDEA YET tekki.



Well this idea pretty much seems like marmite. Im guessing most the unknown big boys vote 1 and most those struggling to make their way voted 5.

[MEZZANINE]

Covert levels are not over powered either. The problem we are facing is that for YEARS it was UNDERPOWERED and meant nothing, now it actually does something and no one's quite prepared to adjust their playing style to adapt. It takes a long time to get over the pre-conceived notions of years on the relative importance of covert level.

Covert was a little underpowered and underused before, but the last set of downgrades swung the balance between sabbing and massing totally over to sabbing.

When massing was how you took down your enemy anyone could mass anyone, you got massed, you could mass back. But now it's all down to covert the few with the biggest coverts become virtually untouchable.

Ruining massing in favor of sabbing benefits the minority and makes the game far less accessible for the majority. It means people ascending ( who usually have the lowest covert levels ) pretty much cant do anything, and also makes it easier for one big account to do the majority of the fighting while most in an alliance do nothing, totally the wrong way to go IMO

Personally I dont like this idea of cheapening coverts or keeping them when ascending, but I do think massing needs to be a realistic option for those who dont have insanely high covert levels. That requires either removing the alliance repair/PPT or opening up new ascensions with new features that make people keep ascending so they wont buy insanely high coverts.

[Iƒrit]

You barely get any APP for covert levels on ascension and why should people who've ascended and had to rebuy quite a lot of stuff for them now be kicked in the teeth and told 'stupid moron, should have just waited'.

Just addressing your point relevant to my suggestion here.
Whats APP?

I appreciate the idea about the whole "people have already done it will miss out"...but appreciate the point that it sucks this way. Most people that HAVE finished ascending did it when covert wasnt the biggest thing but MS was. And they got to keep their MS. And even if they had done it when Covert was the biggest thing, isnt it NICE to say "yeah it was rubbish for me, this would help you out."
STUPIDEST IDEA YET tekki.



Well this idea pretty much seems like marmite. Im guessing most the unknown big boys vote 1 and most those struggling to make their way voted 5.

I am assuming APP means Ascension Power Points, you know those things that get added to your ascended account when you ascend in main lol

I agree the argument "we didn't get to benefit from this idea, why should anyone else?" is completely irrational and totally off base, with this mentality you can expect to never come close to balancing, which i think this update would do, in some aspect.

Also I've been done ascending for awhile, but I do not completely object, I think reducing cost of all levels under the highest is a better approach to balance. However this suggestion would help new players and keep some competition for those ascending, so I did end up voting 5/5.

[GOLDEN WING]

Or simply make 1-30 covert levels like 10-20% cheaper honestly they do not help at all against the 35+ levels and would make ascending less expensive.


damn why not make them literally free

[Tekki]

I should have visited the thread more often.

Yes APP is Ascension Power Points. In the past, your ascended account was powered by these, now accounts are powered by farming and converting DMU, which makes doing big ascensions worthless and therefore makes having them and ascending with them a waste of naq.

Mezzanine, I actually agree. Massing does need to be a realistic option still and at the moment I think it is too hard - for a variety of reasons - 1. the losses, 2. Alliance repair, 3. Alliance PPT, 4. Black Market PPT, etc etc. All of them are combining and also the auto war factor. While of course it's 'fair' that you have auto war set with you if you are aggressive towards someone, it does make wars rather tentative because now you can lose ANY level of defence in 2-3 mins to someone you massed and because they may have had nox on, you couldn't do a full damage to them but they can fully damage you.

That combined with the rest of it, especially the abundance of PPT and the losses which are too high IMO (they WERE too low, I just think they are too high at the moment) makes massing not always viable.

But despite the fact I am an Unknown... with a covert lv 39, I am not of the opinion that covert levels cost too much or that sabbing is over powered. It is the difference in game play style that people should adapt to and the fact that finally sabbing IS doing realistic viable damage. Having massed/sabbed, some big defences recently and watched it happen, I can tell you that it wasn't possible to always sab them out completely because SOME people HAVE adapted while others haven't done the work. If massing was tweaked a bit more, I doubt there would be as much complaint about sabbing.

[Sarevok]

And if they do full damage to you they will have war set to you also. Yes, they can PPT, but so can you.

[MEZZANINE]

And if they do full damage to you they will have war set to you also. Yes, they can PPT, but so can you.

I agree sabbing should set autowar, with attacks we allow a few hits before autowar to allow for farming ( wouldnt need it if we got the new attack button I suggested before ), with sabbing it is clearly an act of aggression from the first sab, so why should some people get away with not having autowar, allowing a player with big stats to do the sabbing without war, then some no stater to set autowar mopping up supers and ACing with nothing for you to hit back at.

Of course if you cant see who sabbed you can have war so I would also suggest that getting the ???? in your intel log should be the result of people sending in far more spies than needed, say

Minimum to +50% spies needed to sab sent in = autowar

+50% to + 99% spies needed to sab sent in = decreasing odds of autowar

+100% spies needed to sab sent in = Guaranteed anonymity of sabber so No autowar

[Sarevok]

Sorry, how do you define minimum and 100%? Cause anything over the minimum (unless it's changed) is just extra losses since the same amount of weapons are destroyed (3%)

[MEZZANINE]

And if they do full damage to you they will have war set to you also. Yes, they can PPT, but so can you.

I agree sabbing should set autowar, with attacks we allow a few hits before autowar to allow for farming ( wouldnt need it if we got the new attack button I suggested before ), with sabbing it is clearly an act of aggression from the first sab, so why should some people get away with not having autowar, allowing a player with big stats to do the sabbing without war, then some no stater to set autowar mopping up supers and ACing with nothing for you to hit back at.

Of course if you cant see who sabbed you can have war so I would also suggest that getting the ???? in your intel log should be the result of people sending in far more spies than needed, say

Minimum to +50% spies needed to sab sent in = autowar

+50% to + 99% spies needed to sab sent in = decreasing odds of autowar

+100% spies needed to sab sent in = Guaranteed anonymity of sabber so No autowar

Sorry, how do you define minimum and 100%? Cause anything over the minimum (unless it's changed) is just extra losses since the same amount of weapons are destroyed (3%)

Minimum being the amount required to destroy weapons, as now sending more than the amount required increases odds of the sab being anonymous ( ????? in the intel log ), so sending more than the amount required still destroys same amount of weapons BUT if visable sabbing set autowar, some people might choose to send more spies in order to remain unseen and not have the autowar.