What should Greece do?

[Legendary Apophis]

I want to see there in Greece a Radical Dictator, like Che was..

I want them to stay in UE, cause they WANT. I want to see, all foreign Interest in Greek being bankrupt. I would love to see that their senators say: Greece has 0 Euro to be paid to foreign Countries.



ANd this could be achieve: Mass People out in streets doing the things there.. This is how we should fight against: This new Era of slaves.

Mass Greece ??? Suppose we could, but TBH they dont have much stats built lol I'd prefer a juicier target like France or Germany, they're in the same alliance arent they

France and Germany are both €€ players and will go to PayPal to refill losses and buy more covert levels and unit production.

[MEZZANINE]

I want to see there in Greece a Radical Dictator, like Che was..

I want them to stay in UE, cause they WANT. I want to see, all foreign Interest in Greek being bankrupt. I would love to see that their senators say: Greece has 0 Euro to be paid to foreign Countries.



ANd this could be achieve: Mass People out in streets doing the things there.. This is how we should fight against: This new Era of slaves.

Mass Greece ??? Suppose we could, but TBH they dont have much stats built lol I'd prefer a juicier target like France or Germany, they're in the same alliance arent they

France and Germany are both €€ players and will go to PayPal to refill losses and buy more covert levels and unit production.

You are right of course, I have experience of fighting people who seem to print their own money, can be very frustrating & drag out for years



Back on topic looks like the Greek referendum will go ahead, I wonder if the options will be...

1 ) Vote to repay debts - Will take decades with high taxes, low disposable incomes and minimal public services.

2 ) Vote to give the EU & Bankers the finger - Refuse to pay debts, leave EU, go solo with the worst national credit rating but no debt.



So what does this all mean ???

Could be the beginning of the end for the EU if Greece leaves, not because Greece is important but because who knows how many will follow, probably Portugal & Spain, maybe Italy, the Irish are already angry about how their politicians conned them into the EU, obviously the people of the UK want out......... etc etc

If Greece defaults the banks will need another bailout. Many banks are already partially state owned, one ( RBS ) is mostly state owned from previous bailouts, if we have to bail them out again will they be nationised ?

I will personally show my support for Greece by going there on holiday next year lol

[Legendary Apophis]

I know you anti Europe guys dream about the end of the EU. The prospect of millions losing their jobs and even more losing their savings, the downfall of countless little and medium business. Such a tasty thing to imagine isn't it?

[HgE]

well I'm not talking about end of UE.
I'm only talking about being Slave, that's all. People did something to generate fake EURO, $. Use it to buy Countries and now they expect to take it back with 200% Profits.
France and Ge should pray that Greece lost some parts of their Debts.. Cause, if they Cash what they buy: those bonds, they'll have -50% income.

So... Right now, they can't afford to lose Greece and set it free.. it's all about $$$$/Euro... who cares which coin is.

[[KMA]Avenger]

Papandreou is politically dead already, Jim. he will be lucky if the Greeks don't lynch him!

That would be barbarian and uncivilized methods.

Jim,, IF Sarkozy was found to be...shall we say, not acting in the best interests of your nation which resulted in mass unemployment, pension age being raised, pensions being raided by foreign banks, pay cuts across the board, your most famous landmarks, islands and infrastructure being sold at knock-down prices, IF Sarkozy did all that and more, would you not want his head?


Ps, what KF said.

I know you anti Europe guys dream about the end of the EU. The prospect of millions losing their jobs and even more losing their savings, the downfall of countless little and medium business. Such a tasty thing to imagine isn't it?

That's where you are wrong Jim, we are NOT anti-European, we are anti-anybodytellinguswhatwecanandcannotdo!

The enemy is this union populated by unaccountable bureaucrats who are destroyers and not creators. they destroy everything with unnecessary rules and regs which cost millions and millions to implement and more often than not, helps to shut down small businesses in the UK who cannot compete with the "big boys".
But probably the biggest deal for us Brits is that OUR Govt is powerless to act against the EU when the EU brings out even more rules and regs that are not in OUR best interest. for us Brits, having such a weak and spineless Govt is totally unacceptable!


As for HgE, he's not even worth our time!

[Legendary Apophis]

Papandreou is politically dead already, Jim. he will be lucky if the Greeks don't lynch him!

That would be barbarian and uncivilized methods.

Jim,, IF Sarkozy was found to be...shall we say, not acting in the best interests of your nation which resulted in mass unemployment, pension age being raised, pensions being raided by foreign banks, pay cuts across the board, your most famous landmarks, islands and infrastructure being sold at knock-down prices, IF Sarkozy did all that and more, would you not want his head?


Ps, what KF said.

Want his head? Are you talking with metaphors or? President François Mitterrand in the 80's screwed us somehow with some things (retirement from 65years down to 60 for example, as you talk about pensions), sure he's long gone due to having passed out, but it wouldn't have come to my mind to "want his head". I would have voted for opposite party and supported an hostile-in-words campaign against him, and see now what happened, Nicolas Sarkozy changed retirement back to 62, fortunately, might I say. Stopping with this nonsense of lowering the age while other countries raised it in the 1980s, what a fool and seeking-popularity-but-careless-of-consequences he was, that Mitterrand...
Saving partially from doom our pension system, our president did.
Most hilarious thing being those students protesting about pension being raised to 62 from 60. Like WTH? They are less than 22 years old and protest against something they won't deal with before decades? Think about retirement before even working? Hi-lar-ious bunch!!

Want his head, literally speaking? IF you meant literally speaking, Damn No! I am not a sheep from the hateful rabble. I do hope you talked with metaphor, otherwise it's pure nonsense that I'd want the head of an elected president. That I'd go down to such barbarian and uncivilized ways. And yes, I consider the cut throating of Louis XVI to be an abomination, as well as the Terror period during Revolution where everyone was killing everyone under so called "laws", in fact to get rid of rivals and any other people disliked. (just in case you were to talk about the Revolution in France stuff)

Also, if I remember well, it's the gov before Papandreou that cheated with support from Goldman Sachs.
What I'd ask is the guilty ones to become ineligible for a few decades. That would teach them. And of course, not a single penny as pension from their job as politician. But I'm talking about worst case scenarios.

I know you anti Europe guys dream about the end of the EU. The prospect of millions losing their jobs and even more losing their savings, the downfall of countless little and medium business. Such a tasty thing to imagine isn't it?

That's where you are wrong Jim, we are NOT anti-European, we are anti-anybodytellinguswhatwecanandcannotdo!

The enemy is this union populated by unaccountable bureaucrats who are destroyers and not creators. they destroy everything with unnecessary rules and regs which cost millions and millions to implement and more often than not, helps to shut down small businesses in the UK who cannot compete with the "big boys".
But probably the biggest deal for us Brits is that OUR Govt is powerless to act against the EU when the EU brings out even more rules and regs that are not in OUR best interest. for us Brits, having such a weak and spineless Govt is totally unacceptable!


As for HgE, he's not even worth our time!

The problem you see, is that Europe as a geographic entity with 100% independent nations from each others with very little relations between each others will NOT make Europe a "superpower", just a bunch of medium nations living separately.

[deni]

Some people seem to forget, that the banks (and insurance companies btw) already agreed to "forget" about half of the money Greece owns them. This deal is being endangered by the prospect of a referendum.

The referendum going through will lead to one consequence only and that is Greece leaving the European Monetary Union (but not the EU). Despite that being tricky as this is something not covered by the original agreements, what can Greece gain from it?

Sure, it can use all the monetary instruments to get rid of their old debt - namely devaluation - but that does not solve the Greek problems as no new debt will be available. And new debt is needed to run the country - pay the pensions, the wages for the employees in the public sector, infrastructure and so on. In the end, without the possibility of making new debt, the restructuring of the state finances will be more slowly and demand more sacrifices from the Greek people.

I do really have no idea, why a sane person should propose a referendum in the first place. It is ludacris and defies all common sense.

[Legendary Apophis]

Some people seem to forget, that the banks (and insurance companies btw) already agreed to "forget" about half of the money Greece owns them. This deal is being endangered by the prospect of a referendum.

The referendum going through will lead to one consequence only and that is Greece leaving the European Monetary Union (but not the EU). Despite that being tricky as this is something not covered by the original agreements, what can Greece gain from it?

Sure, it can use all the monetary instruments to get rid of their old debt - namely devaluation - but that does not solve the Greek problems as no new debt will be available. And new debt is needed to run the country - pay the pensions, the wages for the employees in the public sector, infrastructure and so on. In the end, without the possibility of making new debt, the restructuring of the state finances will be more slowly and demand more sacrifices from the Greek people.

I do really have no idea, why a sane person should propose a referendum in the first place. It is ludacris and defies all common sense.

+1

[MEZZANINE]

I know you anti Europe guys dream about the end of the EU. The prospect of millions losing their jobs and even more losing their savings, the downfall of countless little and medium business. Such a tasty thing to imagine isn't it?

What millions of jobs will be lost ? We dont need the EU to trade with European countries, trade & life doesnt stop just because the bureaucrats are booted. We should return to the original concept of the EEC, countries of similar economic abilities trading freely, it's letting in countries that are not suitable and lending insane amounts of money to them so they can buy stuff off us that got us in the sorry state and is destroying countries like Greece.

What saving will be lost ? In the UK at least personal savings upto £30K ( I think, might have been increased by now ) are insured and cant be lost, since most people are in personal debt they have nothing to lose, and the tiny minority with all the money, well frankly who cares about them, they should have invested more carefully instead of taking the highest ( high risk ) interest rates on offer.

What little businesses will fall ? The only businesses that will fail are the ones that cant get credit, meaning they dont have the assets to secure debt and are high risk. Why dont these businesses have assets & collateral ? Because they are poorly run, and thats the reason they will fail. You cant borrow your way out of trouble.


Your post is pro-EU BS, O noes the world going to end without the EU to save us, save us from what ? Save us from the EU BS lol

[[KMA]Avenger]

The problem you see, is that Europe as a geographic entity with 100% independent nations from each others with very little relations between each others will NOT make Europe a "superpower", just a bunch of medium nations living separately.

Who said i (or any other Brit) want to see minimal relations between Euro nations? that doesn't benefit anyone!

Jim, stop making assumptions. if you are not sure about something, ask and i'll explain. i understand English is not your 1st language, so it's not always easy for you to understand what i am saying. which for the record is how most Brits feel...

Jim, as i have stated MANY times before, and as others have also stated, we don't need a bureaucratic nightmare with it's many devastating rules and regs, to have trade agreements between the Euro nations. countries which have trade agreements and are making money and creating jobs are FAAAR less likely to go to war. but in the current climate, every nation within the EU is so pissed off with the rest of the member states that if things carry on as they are will most likely lead to war.

What we want is for nations to be independent, sovereign and for our Govts to be accountable to the people, not a bunch of fat socialists who cannot be sacked or held to account if they screw up. we want to have closer relations and trade agreements with European nations that WE work out for ourselves...is that a bad thing or to much to ask for, can you not see the benefits of getting rid of the EU???

You need to stop listening to the propaganda about how great the EU is and go do the research on just how many jobs have been lost and what the EU is costing all of us.


Ps, who the hell cares about being a super power?! when you are creating jobs and wealth and have things to sell that others want to buy, they will be your best buddy. there is no need for "super-powers" any more!



Edit: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... he-balloon

[Legendary Apophis]

I know you anti Europe guys dream about the end of the EU. The prospect of millions losing their jobs and even more losing their savings, the downfall of countless little and medium business. Such a tasty thing to imagine isn't it?

What millions of jobs will be lost ? We dont need the EU to trade with European countries, trade & life doesnt stop just because the bureaucrats are booted. We should return to the original concept of the EEC, countries of similar economic abilities trading freely, it's letting in countries that are not suitable and lending insane amounts of money to them so they can buy stuff off us that got us in the sorry state and is destroying countries like Greece.

What saving will be lost ? In the UK at least personal savings upto £30K ( I think, might have been increased by now ) are insured and cant be lost, since most people are in personal debt they have nothing to lose, and the tiny minority with all the money, well frankly who cares about them, they should have invested more carefully instead of taking the highest ( high risk ) interest rates on offer.

What little businesses will fall ? The only businesses that will fail are the ones that cant get credit, meaning they dont have the assets to secure debt and are high risk. Why dont these businesses have assets & collateral ? Because they are poorly run, and thats the reason they will fail. You cant borrow your way out of trouble.


Your post is pro-EU BS, O noes the world going to end without the EU to save us, save us from what ? Save us from the EU BS lol

TYPICAL anti-EU post BS. All is gonna be fine when we lose the EU, lol I've heard that so many times.


Of course jobs will be lost. The change of currency will hurt small and medium businesses; of course in the anti EU bubble this is inconvenient, thus it's avoided to be mentioned, or even, denied. If you believe all currencies would do very well you are really blind. Changing currency and system as a whole in a middle of a crisis won't do anything. Are you serious? Due to lower demand and drop in buying power, jobs will be lost due to excess of workers. If you talked about Germany, of course they always find a way to do better than others lol.

Savings will be lost, you didn't get me there. With the jokes planned to be made (doesn't really concern UK) such as the new franc with a foolish rate (magically turns from 6.55957F=1€ to 1F=1€) it will be speculated to death in no time, because of the nonsensical move. Not to mention the devaluation and the increase of imports price (oil, gas...), while the exports would probably not cover the balance of payments. If you have 5000€ (example) of currency in your bank accounts, and new currency devalue itself from starting point (SO expectable), what do you think will happen? What you had won't be same as what you now have, and anyway interest rates being adjusted in more positive saving accounts won't be able to cover the loss entirely, the longer it will last the more % you will lose. Not to mention salaries will probably not increase to cover the loss of value, and thus, the buying power will decrease. A brand new era of stagflation...

You are WAY TOO OPTIMISTIC about exiting EU. It's not surprising, it's your "dream", so hopefully you will try to show it as a heavenly new age lol. Reality is that it will not be as wonderful as you claim. Maybe not as terrible as I do, but much more likely closer than what the "likes" of me say, than the "likes" of you.

[Legendary Apophis]

The problem you see, is that Europe as a geographic entity with 100% independent nations from each others with very little relations between each others will NOT make Europe a "superpower", just a bunch of medium nations living separately.

Who said i (or any other Brit) want to see minimal relations between Euro nations? that doesn't benefit anyone!

Jim, stop making assumptions. if you are not sure about something, ask and i'll explain. i understand English is not your 1st language, so it's not always easy for you to understand what i am saying. which for the record is how most Brits feel...

I understand perfectly what you are saying thank you very much.

Jim, as i have stated MANY times before, and as others have also stated, we don't need a bureaucratic nightmare with it's many devastating rules and regs, to have trade agreements between the Euro nations. countries which have trade agreements and are making money and creating jobs are FAAAR less likely to go to war. but in the current climate, every nation within the EU is so pissed off with the rest of the member states that if things carry on as they are will most likely lead to war.

Which ultimately in the particular case that is Europe, it will lead to a new EU. Slight different, but one nonetheless. It's the fate of this continent to try to unite itself a way or another.

What we want is for nations to be independent, sovereign and for our Govts to be accountable to the people, not a bunch of fat socialists who cannot be sacked or held to account if they screw up. we want to have closer relations and trade agreements with European nations that WE work out for ourselves...is that a bad thing or to much to ask for, can you not see the benefits of getting rid of the EU???

You need to stop listening to the propaganda about how great the EU is and go do the research on just how many jobs have been lost and what the EU is costing all of us.


Ps, who the hell cares about being a super power?! when you are creating jobs and wealth and have things to sell that others want to buy, they will be your best buddy. there is no need for "super-powers" any more!

Edit: http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/arch ... he-balloon

Why wouldn't it lead again to +/- same thing as the EU? As I said already, what was planned in 1957 wasn't what we have now, because as time goes, new politicians come around, new geopolitical situations come and go, the plans change, especially if you extend.

[[KMA]Avenger]

[Legendary Apophis]

Despite what people who believe in NWO stuff think, you cannot know decades in advance what will be the fate of the project you started. As that article I quoted about 1957 Rome treaty versus EU of 27 stated, there is no damn master plan that is carried on by generations to have the goal fulfilled. Therefore, if a new trading agreement was to be created in let's say 2016, you couldn't know how it would be in 2039.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed