Increase the realm size growth limit

[GhostyGoo]

(ie those with 20b planets can only raid people between 18 and 22b planets, those with 4b planets can only raid those from 0 to 8b planets and so on, the higher the planet count, the lower the +- from your planet count you can raid)

~N

Now that is an absolutely superb idea!

I've been trying to come up with a good idea about this very problem. The newly ascended players have very little to no chance of even farming a decent amount of DMU when they first begin, it is quite ridiculous and, i expect, a HUGE anti-climax.

An alternative, perhaps, to that would be to increase income of inactives by, say, training their units as resource planets. There's a nice way for inactives on Quantum to be worth farming whole era long - their UP gets increased each day so it stays 1/6 of top UP. 10% of units gained per day get automatically trained into miners. This ensures that they are farmable whole era long and that, if someone was inactive and became active, it doesn't automatically give them a better standing point than those that were active all era long. Perhaps something to discuss and consider?

That is done in Quantum and it has assured inactives can be farmed whole era long

~N

Sol, you really need to listen to this guy - this exact problem has been rattling around my skull all week and i think that he may just have the answers!

I'm not very good at these types of ideas because my mind doesn't quite work that way but wouldn't diminishing returns on the CEF/Ch rating work better than a hard-cap? Or is it just the same?

-Goo

[Sol]

An alternative, perhaps, to that would be to increase income of inactives by, say, training their units as resource planets. There's a nice way for inactives on Quantum to be worth farming whole era long - their UP gets increased each day so it stays 1/6 of top UP. 10% of units gained per day get automatically trained into miners. This ensures that they are farmable whole era long and that, if someone was inactive and became active, it doesn't automatically give them a better standing point than those that were active all era long. Perhaps something to discuss and consider?

That is done in Quantum and it has assured inactives can be farmed whole era long

~N

Interesting idea, although I could easily (and just as effectively) jack up the income untrained planets give.
To a point this will solve very little anyway, the core amount of people that CAN produce a decent income will still be minute compared to the users that want to grow. I could farm a few times a day for about 20 Q a run (this was around the start of last year ish), but farms are probably quite diminished now mostly because there are so many people farming again. Increasing the income will just allow others to net more when they go out to farm, not so much help the noobies.
The ideal fix would be to have more large inactive income producing accounts. I don't think injecting everyone with 10 bill planets is the way to go either, those with planet counts under 3 bill (uncapped CER) would still have crap CER's even if the cap was increased, they wouldn't be getting anywhere.

[Neimenljivi]

Thanks for support, Ghosty

Sol - increasing the output of untrained planets would fix it in short term, however it won't really be as effective as what I mentioned in the long run because we'll be facing the same problem, however with making CER linked to the top CER it would ensure they're growing at a steady, in relative sense, pace. Making 1/10 of their daily production autotrain into miners would ensure that their income would grow, just as the game grows, so they will have big enough income without changing the how income itself is calculated. This will provide a bigger base of farmable accounts and thus it will help everyone - more so the noobies because everyone will be able to farm 20 quad, for instance, a day and 20 quad does, in relative sense, do a lot more for a noobie than for a big, old account.
That way everyone could farm enough so they could increase their CERs a lot more.

Furthermore I think there are quite many inactive accounts with their realm setting on critical, even further diminishing their already low income. Perhaps make it so that if a player doesn't login in a week, and is on critical, the critical get's changed to none?

Also about your suggestion to just mass away those big fat accounts - due to how soon their realm becomes deveastated from attacks and you cannot do further harm, it's, even with substantial losses, almost impossible to do any serious damage to active player.

I really think the raiding idea which would limit who you can farm, not based on rank like on main, but based on army size and some limits. However the AT/stolen planets rate shouldn't be as high as it used to be. That way it'd take a lot of turns to raid like 4b planets, but it would still be possible to raid them.

~N

[Sol]

Thanks for support, Ghosty

Sol - increasing the output of untrained planets would fix it in short term, however it won't really be as effective as what I mentioned in the long run because we'll be facing the same problem, however with making CER linked to the top CER it would ensure they're growing at a steady, in relative sense, pace. Making 1/10 of their daily production autotrain into miners would ensure that their income would grow, just as the game grows, so they will have big enough income without changing the how income itself is calculated. This will provide a bigger base of farmable accounts and thus it will help everyone - more so the noobies because everyone will be able to farm 20 quad, for instance, a day and 20 quad does, in relative sense, do a lot more for a noobie than for a big, old account.
That way everyone could farm enough so they could increase their CERs a lot more.

Linking CER's to the greatest one will get iffy as hell , not really keen on doing that haha.
Training 1/10th of their CER is probably crap all anyway, take a below average CER of 500 mill ish per day, uncapped, when they are at about 6-7 bill planet count their new per day CER is about 90-80 mill, so 8.5 mill would go to income. If you consider that there is still the large chunk of inactives just sitting there because they never wanted to play ascended, then that wouldn't fix anything (don't forget the production powerup as well).
Those that happen to have decent CER's and lost a stack of planets as to starting gaining a decent amount back into income would most likely be active anyway and probably remove them to stop themselves from being farmed.
It would benefit the younglings, the very young, when a 1 trill his is like a pure unfiltered ecstasy shot straight into the eyeball, but it would otherwise probably do nothing at all for anyone else (on the whole, give or take the odd inactive, massive CER, little defence).

Furthermore I think there are quite many inactive accounts with their realm setting on critical, even further diminishing their already low income. Perhaps make it so that if a player doesn't login in a week, and is on critical, the critical get's changed to none?

Seems solid, if I can't think of any major drawback i'll do it shortly

Also about your suggestion to just mass away those big fat accounts - due to how soon their realm becomes deveastated from attacks and you cannot do further harm, it's, even with substantial losses, almost impossible to do any serious damage to active player.

If they are that active then should you be farming them anyway? IF you really want to get the income from a fortified account then you have no other option then plan an attack with minimal losses (which will be big anyway, for both of you).
That's kinda like saying you want to mass someones 100 trill defence in main because they have a 60 bill per turn income.

I really think the raiding idea which would limit who you can farm, not based on rank like on main, but based on army size and some limits. However the AT/stolen planets rate shouldn't be as high as it used to be. That way it'd take a lot of turns to raid like 4b planets, but it would still be possible to raid them.

Given the past *severe* hatred for it, you would need to convince everyone it's needed, if I were to bring it back I would at the very least limit it so that it's only available to users who have a proportionally lower CER than the base active average. So if the average was about 600 mill, and it was 20%, users with 120 mill CER can raid, with the 5,1/5th in play.
That and probably added a decreasing function so you get less planets per attack the greater the CER you have.

[Neimenljivi]

Then perhaps not 1/6th of the top CER, but this would ensure the constant growth of inactives so they're constantly farmable.
Then how about 1/10 of their untrained planets gets trained each day? That will essentially do the same, except it will train almost all of their units in time, and the small CER won't be as limiting, because most of the long-time inactives have army sizes well above the cap? This will mean, in time, a big enough income boost for them to be farmable?

Perhaps it would be also prudent to increase the amount of planets the first time ascender has? I'm not sure what's the exact amount right now, but if it hadn't been increased from all those years ago I first ascended, well it takes an awful while for them to be able to even attack like anyone.

I wasn't referring to massing them so one is able to farm them. I was referring to massing them for the sole purpose of reducing the gap between the biggest and smallest which you offered as a solution

Raiding was hated because it was waaaay to powerful. One was able to untrain income planets on a target (which untrained a big percentage) and raid them then with big planets taken/AT rate. Now there is no option to untrain those planets and the planet/AT rate would have to be adjusted so raiding took a decent amount of turns. Add to that the limit of who can raid who based on total planet count, and the 1/10 of untrained planets being automatically trained into income planets anyway and suddenly that's a whole different picture as raiding is nowhere as strong as it used to be and it can't completely destroy one's account.

~N

[GhostyGoo]

So if the average was about 600 mill, and it was 20%, users with 120 mill CER can raid, with the 5,1/5th in play.
That and probably added a decreasing function so you get less planets per attack the greater the CER you have.

That would certainly help me!

Consider - in order to compete in the rankings i have zero (yes) zero income planets. Every last planet i require for stat building. My CER is roughly 70 mil planets per day and it is critically low. Add this damn cap and i'm farming enough to cause a hole in the server just to keep that CER at 70-72 mill!! Every day i log in and it is back down to 68-70 million.



I seriously don't know what the answer is but raiding seems logical. Sol, i know you are massively busy (the curse of being an active admin) but why not create yourself a new account with an average first time ascension amount of Life Force, fast forward your account to 3 billion planets and see the problem yourself?

I don't want ecstacy anywhere near my eyes or anything else for that matter but at the moment i'm simply treading water when, if things work properly, i should be expanding?

See: Cosmic expansion rate

[Drought]

How about increasing all < 1b planets to 1b, and give new players 1b planets after first ascension ?

[Sol]

So if the average was about 600 mill, and it was 20%, users with 120 mill CER can raid, with the 5,1/5th in play.
That and probably added a decreasing function so you get less planets per attack the greater the CER you have.

That would certainly help me!

Consider - in order to compete in the rankings i have zero (yes) zero income planets. Every last planet i require for stat building. My CER is roughly 70 mil planets per day and it is critically low. Add this damn cap and i'm farming enough to cause a hole in the server just to keep that CER at 70-72 mill!! Every day i log in and it is back down to 68-70 million.

What is your CER uncapped? You don't need to keep maintaining its level, the general idea of the slow CER decline was so players could not grow insanely huge fast, even with a massive CER it would take years.
Many people have 0 income planets as well.

I seriously don't know what the answer is but raiding seems logical. Sol, i know you are massively busy (the curse of being an active admin) but why not create yourself a new account with an average first time ascension amount of Life Force, fast forward your account to 3 billion planets and see the problem yourself?

I don't want ecstacy anywhere near my eyes or anything else for that matter but at the moment i'm simply treading water when, if things work properly, i should be expanding?

See: Cosmic expansion rate

What's your planet count roughly?

[GhostyGoo]

I'm huge on targets - i set myself a target and i keep chipping away at it. My target was to achieve 100 million planets per day...i thought that was reasonable but i certainly did not account for how hard the capping mechanism would hit me Sol.

My uncapped CER is 353,917,080 planet / day and my planet count is 5,548,904,100(5,515,000,000) Planets (i've never really understood what that in brackets is )

I had a brainsplodge just a minute ago - what if there was some kind of transcendental market (like in other servers) where you can maybe grab a bunch of planets (or a bunch of DMU)? I realise this would also benefit the bigger realms but, if there is something like main server's "disease", adding planets above cap from market would slowly/exponentially decrease back to cap? ie. the greater the number of planets you have above a cap would cause bigger decrease per turn back towards cap.

Or might it work if the cap were linked to your CER instead of your realm size?

-Goo™ chucking brain splats about

[Sol]

I'm huge on targets - i set myself a target and i keep chipping away at it. My target was to achieve 100 million planets per day...i thought that was reasonable but i certainly did not account for how hard the capping mechanism would hit me Sol.

My uncapped CER is 353,917,080 planet / day and my planet count is 5,548,904,100(5,515,000,000) Planets (i've never really understood what that in brackets is )

I had a brainsplodge just a minute ago - what if there was some kind of transcendental market (like in other servers) where you can maybe grab a bunch of planets (or a bunch of DMU)? I realise this would also benefit the bigger realms but, if there is something like main server's "disease", adding planets above cap from market would slowly/exponentially decrease back to cap? ie. the greater the number of planets you have above a cap would cause bigger decrease per turn back towards cap.

Or might it work if the cap were linked to your CER instead of your realm size?

-Goo™ chucking brain splats about

Not bad not bad, my ex CER was about 1.2-3 bill, but mind you that took MANY days of farming. Which is what I don't want to happen, to increase everyones cer of planets or something so they can easily catch up to those that took ages to get where they are.

As for the plague thing, the whole idea of the decrease in CER per day is enough, peopel don't need anything else, so the market idea is probably void.

@DD, a thought, not bad as well, perhaps I will, but maybe 100 mill odd, something small.

[Sol]

Then perhaps not 1/6th of the top CER, but this would ensure the constant growth of inactives so they're constantly farmable.
Then how about 1/10 of their untrained planets gets trained each day? That will essentially do the same, except it will train almost all of their units in time, and the small CER won't be as limiting, because most of the long-time inactives have army sizes well above the cap? This will mean, in time, a big enough income boost for them to be farmable?

If the whole 1/6th of the top CER goes through, it would work, but as I said before I'm not really keen on it, too much of a dynamic flow for a base stat.

Raiding was hated because it was waaaay to powerful. One was able to untrain income planets on a target (which untrained a big percentage) and raid them then with big planets taken/AT rate. Now there is no option to untrain those planets and the planet/AT rate would have to be adjusted so raiding took a decent amount of turns. Add to that the limit of who can raid who based on total planet count, and the 1/10 of untrained planets being automatically trained into income planets anyway and suddenly that's a whole different picture as raiding is nowhere as strong as it used to be and it can't completely destroy one's account.

~N

I'll make a new thread for this actually and see what people think about it.

[Sol]

also.....what was the original idea of the thread? Because I think another issue was summoned..
- Noobs taking too long to get up to speed with the rest of humanity
or
- Users in general are finding it hard to get DMU

[GhostyGoo]

Not bad??? You're supposed to say, "oh me oh my that is awful, dreadful, abysmal!....here, let me alter the whole game mechanic so you can catch up...

*chuckle* just kidding.

Yeah, i work excruciatingly hard on my account and, being a house husband/writer, i have perhaps more time than many do. Maybe i've set my sights too high for now, i reckon i'm floating on the higher end of the not-so-actives in rank (i fluctuate around the 340-350s) and that, for now, i'm just going to have to focus on something else until i have a planet pool?

I don't at all expect/want to diminish the hard work of the older players but surely, in the interests of competition, it should be achievable?

also.....what was the original idea of the thread? Because I think another issue was summoned..
- Noobs taking too long to get up to speed with the rest of humanity
or
- Users in general are finding it hard to get DMU

Sorry, that may have been partially my fault.
-When i began playing again my ascended account was once ascended and over 3 billion planets; if i had not set-up such a strong account years ago i have no idea how i would cope now.
-I don't really have a problem getting DMU; i could always use more and, if i had more, CER would increase quicker.


How about the cap being relative to your CER as opposed to your realm size?

[Angelis~]

My uncapped CER is 353,917,080 planet / day and my planet count is 5,548,904,100(5,515,000,000) Planets (i've never really understood what that in brackets is )

-Goo™ chucking brain splats about

Total planets (military planets trained)

[Sol]

My uncapped CER is 353,917,080 planet / day and my planet count is 5,548,904,100(5,515,000,000) Planets (i've never really understood what that in brackets is )

-Goo™ chucking brain splats about

Total planets (military planets trained)

^

forgot to reply to that

also... i could make the cap relative to the average planet count of everyones, like plague is in main, making it relative to CER will be very messy.