Re: covert level attack (sab) differential cap
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:34 am
Gohan wrote:Great move to help the smaller ones. 10/10
+1
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Gohan wrote:Great move to help the smaller ones. 10/10
Sylus wrote:Just a musing.
Whilst I get the theory of putting some form of scale on sabbing, is the unintended by-product going to be a complete discouragement of going for covert levels beyond a certain point?
For the purposes of this discussion I will designate level 37 the mean covert level.
Thus people who achieved levels much higher, say 41, will retain the benefit of their higher level; whilst those that did not wont see a decent incentive (cost vs benefit ratio) in investing that much naq simply to combat a small group of players.
Wont this create the unfortunate situation of a group of accounts who can no longer really be sabbed effectively that will be perpetuated by removing the broader benefit of trying to match them?
Raven wrote:CCexyDCapedCrusader wrote:it should be 3 levels below people cant sab you eg 41 to 38
It is practically like that already. As far as i got it if you keep 40mill spies at lvl 41, someone will need 250x 40 = 10bill spies to get the same result at lvl 37.
Wich will make it pretty impossible to sab if you keep a healthy number of spies yourself.
Juliette wrote:Power per spy vs. power total.Freestyle304 wrote:I am feeling all ignorant now. I thought that it was ultimately a comparison of covert actions, and that covert action went up by sqrt of 2 for each covert level. Consequently, level 41 would be 4 times the covert as 37, and nothing in the formula that is currently in the help&rules for main changes this.
What am i missing that leads to a 250:1 power differential for spies?
High Empty wrote:That's my understanding..
Then again we sometimes just play the game.
Defender power 100,000,000,000,000
lvl 37 spies needed 58,813,000 (1 as few as 37)
lvl 38 spies needed 41,587,100 ((2^.5) as few as 37)
lvl 39 spies needed 29,406,500 (2 as few as 37)
lvl 40 spies needed 20,793,600 (2*(2^.5) as few as 37)
lvl 41 spies needed 14,703,300 ( 4 times as few as 37)
That's the math... now total power well who knows
Freestyle304 wrote:Juliette wrote:Power per spy vs. power total.Freestyle304 wrote:I am feeling all ignorant now. I thought that it was ultimately a comparison of covert actions, and that covert action went up by sqrt of 2 for each covert level. Consequently, level 41 would be 4 times the covert as 37, and nothing in the formula that is currently in the help&rules for main changes this.
What am i missing that leads to a 250:1 power differential for spies?
Yeah. I'm still not buying that a spy is 250 times more powerful if you go up 4 covert levels, and it appears HE agrees.High Empty wrote:That's my understanding..
Then again we sometimes just play the game
Defender power 100,000,000,000,000
lvl 37 spies needed 58,813,000 (1 as few as 37)
lvl 38 spies needed 41,587,100 ((2^.5) as few as 37)
lvl 39 spies needed 29,406,500 (2 as few as 37)
lvl 40 spies needed 20,793,600 (2*(2^.5) as few as 37)
lvl 41 spies needed 14,703,300 ( 4 times as few as 37)
That's the math... now total power well who knows
To do the math in the other direction, the power of 1 spy, based on the formula in main help:
( ( (sqrt(2^spyLvl) x spies x %increase techs x %increse race ) + spies ) * 10 )
[100% represents no increase from techs or race bonus]
Covert Level 37: (((sqrt(2^37) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 3,707,286
Covert Level 38: (((sqrt(2^38) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 5,242,890
Covert Level 39: (((sqrt(2^39) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 7,414,562
Covert Level 40: (((sqrt(2^40) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 10,485,770
Covert Level 41: (((sqrt(2^41) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 14,829,114
(Power of Level 41 Spy)/(Power of level 37 spy) = 14,829,114/3,707,286 = 3.9999919
SO, where did the 250:1 factoid come from?
But 250% is not 4 times.doc holliday wrote:Freestyle304 wrote:Juliette wrote:Power per spy vs. power total.Freestyle304 wrote:I am feeling all ignorant now. I thought that it was ultimately a comparison of covert actions, and that covert action went up by sqrt of 2 for each covert level. Consequently, level 41 would be 4 times the covert as 37, and nothing in the formula that is currently in the help&rules for main changes this.
What am i missing that leads to a 250:1 power differential for spies?
Yeah. I'm still not buying that a spy is 250 times more powerful if you go up 4 covert levels, and it appears HE agrees.High Empty wrote:That's my understanding..
Then again we sometimes just play the game
Defender power 100,000,000,000,000
lvl 37 spies needed 58,813,000 (1 as few as 37)
lvl 38 spies needed 41,587,100 ((2^.5) as few as 37)
lvl 39 spies needed 29,406,500 (2 as few as 37)
lvl 40 spies needed 20,793,600 (2*(2^.5) as few as 37)
lvl 41 spies needed 14,703,300 ( 4 times as few as 37)
That's the math... now total power well who knows
To do the math in the other direction, the power of 1 spy, based on the formula in main help:
( ( (sqrt(2^spyLvl) x spies x %increase techs x %increse race ) + spies ) * 10 )
[100% represents no increase from techs or race bonus]
Covert Level 37: (((sqrt(2^37) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 3,707,286
Covert Level 38: (((sqrt(2^38) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 5,242,890
Covert Level 39: (((sqrt(2^39) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 7,414,562
Covert Level 40: (((sqrt(2^40) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 10,485,770
Covert Level 41: (((sqrt(2^41) x 1 x 100% x 100%) + 1) * 10) = 14,829,114
(Power of Level 41 Spy)/(Power of level 37 spy) = 14,829,114/3,707,286 = 3.9999919
SO, where did the 250:1 factoid come from?
Maybe admin meant 250% instead of "250 times"
Raven wrote:Sylus wrote:I dont see the problem, mass the defence, remove the spies and sab their attack weps :p
And *this* is why J is implementing it.~Belsamber~ wrote:Enter the era of failed sabs or over costly sabs and encouraging people to go back to old school massing
Sylus wrote:Raven wrote:I dont see the problem, mass the defence, remove the spies and sab their attack weps :pSylus wrote:That is the exact problem though. By this logic everyone should just have covert level one...
edit: this is going to be a goddamn nightmare to calculate all the time.