StarGateWars Forums

I will more than happily get jules to watch me from admin side log as I mass retrain etc

I have NO ISSUES WITH THIS

Nekkid Gatewars massing cam whoring, It was always destined to happen. . .

I to have smashed Harch in a few onliners..... But I can't touch the likes of etl. Again no accusations implied just stating some facts...

Some players are better than others..... Period

Logs do look suspect but then again i always been **Filtered** at onliners see what jules has to say...

overlord elz wrote:

D3ath wrote:thats why i was already saying for ages, make logs show the exact time of hits with seconds or even miliseconds, then it would be much easier to detect and catch scripters, but looks like noone supports that idea.

p.s. i do have hard time against some people as well that i think they are inhumane

TL;DR - see bold colour

I would assume they probably don't record milliseconds in the database, or if they do are recording it in different fields that are displayed in the logs. I don't think at the end of the day it makes much difference, scripting (client side macros) by it's very nature are designed to mimic human action (to avoid laborious repetitive tasks).

I have thought about this a lot previously, not just for this game, I work in programming and data analysis... how detectable is scripting? At what point is the actions considered "inhuman" or setting an unfair advantage? Consider the idea of solving a Rubik's cube, takes me about 10 minutes to solve it and I consider myself decent. The human world record is like 5 seconds, the machine world record is probably around 1 second I believe. So to me and my best time, there is only a 0.7% difference in the best human and the best machine (remember that is the BEST machine). The differentiation of what I can achieve and what a machine can is indistinguishable without video evidence.

This is pretty well the same case for in game scripts. I have seen people that have been able to expertly repair, retrain, bank etc. with multiple windows mostly on what must be muscle memory. You do something enough it just becomes instinct. This has been backed up by being on the receiving end of some of the finest SGW has seen. It is the same vast chasm between my time on solving a Rubik's cube and the world champions. Obviously without each individual player videoing every single interaction with their computer/device it is near impossible to differentiate between a client side macro and human action.

I don't envy the admin that would have only limited server side data to try and make this correlation, as is the nature of client side macros, the differentiation is going to be such a minor thing. I mean you are talking about a game that has so many repeat actions and repeatable patterns naturally you could easily be banned for just being too clinical.

*edit - added TL;DR shortcuts

i beleive the database does record seconds - witch is why im asking for a check...

SO, i will put this to you, unbiased not as hach's friend, but as someone that works in programming and analysis:

statistically, what are the chances of Harch training the exact amount to get back to exactly 5,000,000 defenders just once, with more than 1 attack per second coming in?
taking into the account he has to work out how many units it will take - untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank - all in the time between two hits - still remembering im averaging a hit per second.

you can miracle fluke it if your super fast at maths, and caught me repairing at the same time (see highlighted attacks #4, where he only retrained 125k).

NOW, the highlighted attacks numbers 2 and 3, he trained both times exactly 2,709,055 units, to put him back on exactly 5mil.
humanly, statistically, what are the chances of him training those exact amounts after the exact amount of units has died without computer assistance?
Taking into account he would have again had to untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank still all in the time between two hits?

what are the chances of him doing that 4 between 350 hits?

never once have i questioned ETL or Maths massings, and ive had my ass handed to me by them both many a times, aswell as duders, Rob, alot of others.
the difference is not only do they make the odd mistake, they dont calculate and train precise amounts of units in milliseconds.
remember ive been here for many years too, massing the whole time.

also what more are the chances of him training those EXACT numbers, when this is his explination of it:

Scott/Harch wrote:I didn't train exactly? I was training 7mill everytime u were massing me

I had TeamViewer set up on another laptop and I had u tabbed down
[4/25/2016 9:18:25 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: As soon as u got me to the hundreds I trained 6 then u massed below 5
[4/25/2016 9:18:34 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: So I did 7

not once did his uu go over 5mil, in any of my logs.

i hi five Judgment for standing up for one of their friends, i really do... but up until yesterday we were friends aswell... i wouldnt turn on someone ive known and been on the same side as for 9 years if i wasnt 100% positive.

teesdale wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

D3ath wrote:thats why i was already saying for ages, make logs show the exact time of hits with seconds or even miliseconds, then it would be much easier to detect and catch scripters, but looks like noone supports that idea.

p.s. i do have hard time against some people as well that i think they are inhumane

TL;DR - see bold colour

I would assume they probably don't record milliseconds in the database, or if they do are recording it in different fields that are displayed in the logs. I don't think at the end of the day it makes much difference, scripting (client side macros) by it's very nature are designed to mimic human action (to avoid laborious repetitive tasks).

I have thought about this a lot previously, not just for this game, I work in programming and data analysis... how detectable is scripting? At what point is the actions considered "inhuman" or setting an unfair advantage? Consider the idea of solving a Rubik's cube, takes me about 10 minutes to solve it and I consider myself decent. The human world record is like 5 seconds, the machine world record is probably around 1 second I believe. So to me and my best time, there is only a 0.7% difference in the best human and the best machine (remember that is the BEST machine). The differentiation of what I can achieve and what a machine can is indistinguishable without video evidence.

This is pretty well the same case for in game scripts. I have seen people that have been able to expertly repair, retrain, bank etc. with multiple windows mostly on what must be muscle memory. You do something enough it just becomes instinct. This has been backed up by being on the receiving end of some of the finest SGW has seen. It is the same vast chasm between my time on solving a Rubik's cube and the world champions. Obviously without each individual player videoing every single interaction with their computer/device it is near impossible to differentiate between a client side macro and human action.

I don't envy the admin that would have only limited server side data to try and make this correlation, as is the nature of client side macros, the differentiation is going to be such a minor thing. I mean you are talking about a game that has so many repeat actions and repeatable patterns naturally you could easily be banned for just being too clinical.

*edit - added TL;DR shortcuts

i beleive the database does record seconds - witch is why im asking for a check...

SO, i will put this to you, unbiased not as hach's friend, but as someone that works in programming and analysis:

statistically, what are the chances of Harch training the exact amount to get back to exactly 5,000,000 defenders just once, with more than 1 attack per second coming in?
taking into the account he has to work out how many units it will take - untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank - all in the time between two hits - still remembering im averaging a hit per second.

you can miracle fluke it if your super fast at maths, and caught me repairing at the same time (see highlighted attacks #4, where he only retrained 125k).

NOW, the highlighted attacks numbers 2 and 3, he trained both times exactly 2,709,055 units, to put him back on exactly 5mil.
humanly, statistically, what are the chances of him training those exact amounts after the exact amount of units has died without computer assistance?
Taking into account he would have again had to untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank still all in the time between two hits?

what are the chances of him doing that 4 between 350 hits?

never once have i questioned ETL or Maths massings, and ive had my ass handed to me by them both many a times, aswell as duders, Rob, alot of others.
the difference is not only do they make the odd mistake, they dont calculate and train precise amounts of units in milliseconds.
remember ive been here for many years too, massing the whole time.

also what more are the chances of him training those EXACT numbers, when this is his explination of it:

Scott/Harch wrote:I didn't train exactly? I was training 7mill everytime u were massing me

I had TeamViewer set up on another laptop and I had u tabbed down
[4/25/2016 9:18:25 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: As soon as u got me to the hundreds I trained 6 then u massed below 5
[4/25/2016 9:18:34 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: So I did 7

not once did his uu go over 5mil, in any of my logs.

i hi five Judgment for standing up for one of their friends, i really do... but up until yesterday we were friends aswell... i wouldnt turn on someone ive known and been on the same side as for 9 years if i wasnt 100% positive.

Tees, I work as a program analyst and DBA (I mentioned that) so know full well they record seconds, I was talking about micro-seconds which is much less likely to be recorded using MySQL + PHP (which I assume is the setup). They would of had to have coded an extra function outside of the default timestamps which only reach seconds. But if you were worth your salt as a programmer you would know that the time log recorded times can be vastly different from the client side request times. With all the server issues lately, I wouldn't be suprised if what you are seeing is a disparity between when the server received your page requests, and when the pages were recorded/generated. No stress, you will learn that in time.

I see no evidence that he trained 2,709,055 units exactly, all I see is the army that was served up to you? You have nothing but your logs, and a hurt ego. Trust me I know that makes it easy for you to think something is amiss but what the picture you are drawing is far beyond conclusive evidence. Which you are right in reporting, but it is a long stretch from a smoking gun.

You should see I never said Harch was innocent, even though I personally know he is, I just was highlighting the fact that client side macros are almost indistinguishable from human input.

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train, admittedly I go about the speed of smell, but that seems fairly easy explanation as to how you would train a certain amount. Once again, the line between what is humanly possible and not becomes pretty blurred.

overlord elz wrote:

teesdale wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

D3ath wrote:thats why i was already saying for ages, make logs show the exact time of hits with seconds or even miliseconds, then it would be much easier to detect and catch scripters, but looks like noone supports that idea.

p.s. i do have hard time against some people as well that i think they are inhumane

TL;DR - see bold colour

I would assume they probably don't record milliseconds in the database, or if they do are recording it in different fields that are displayed in the logs. I don't think at the end of the day it makes much difference, scripting (client side macros) by it's very nature are designed to mimic human action (to avoid laborious repetitive tasks).

I have thought about this a lot previously, not just for this game, I work in programming and data analysis... how detectable is scripting? At what point is the actions considered "inhuman" or setting an unfair advantage? Consider the idea of solving a Rubik's cube, takes me about 10 minutes to solve it and I consider myself decent. The human world record is like 5 seconds, the machine world record is probably around 1 second I believe. So to me and my best time, there is only a 0.7% difference in the best human and the best machine (remember that is the BEST machine). The differentiation of what I can achieve and what a machine can is indistinguishable without video evidence.

This is pretty well the same case for in game scripts. I have seen people that have been able to expertly repair, retrain, bank etc. with multiple windows mostly on what must be muscle memory. You do something enough it just becomes instinct. This has been backed up by being on the receiving end of some of the finest SGW has seen. It is the same vast chasm between my time on solving a Rubik's cube and the world champions. Obviously without each individual player videoing every single interaction with their computer/device it is near impossible to differentiate between a client side macro and human action.

I don't envy the admin that would have only limited server side data to try and make this correlation, as is the nature of client side macros, the differentiation is going to be such a minor thing. I mean you are talking about a game that has so many repeat actions and repeatable patterns naturally you could easily be banned for just being too clinical.

*edit - added TL;DR shortcuts

i beleive the database does record seconds - witch is why im asking for a check...

SO, i will put this to you, unbiased not as hach's friend, but as someone that works in programming and analysis:

statistically, what are the chances of Harch training the exact amount to get back to exactly 5,000,000 defenders just once, with more than 1 attack per second coming in?
taking into the account he has to work out how many units it will take - untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank - all in the time between two hits - still remembering im averaging a hit per second.

you can miracle fluke it if your super fast at maths, and caught me repairing at the same time (see highlighted attacks #4, where he only retrained 125k).

NOW, the highlighted attacks numbers 2 and 3, he trained both times exactly 2,709,055 units, to put him back on exactly 5mil.
humanly, statistically, what are the chances of him training those exact amounts after the exact amount of units has died without computer assistance?
Taking into account he would have again had to untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank still all in the time between two hits?

what are the chances of him doing that 4 between 350 hits?

never once have i questioned ETL or Maths massings, and ive had my ass handed to me by them both many a times, aswell as duders, Rob, alot of others.
the difference is not only do they make the odd mistake, they dont calculate and train precise amounts of units in milliseconds.
remember ive been here for many years too, massing the whole time.

also what more are the chances of him training those EXACT numbers, when this is his explination of it:

Scott/Harch wrote:I didn't train exactly? I was training 7mill everytime u were massing me

I had TeamViewer set up on another laptop and I had u tabbed down
[4/25/2016 9:18:25 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: As soon as u got me to the hundreds I trained 6 then u massed below 5
[4/25/2016 9:18:34 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: So I did 7

not once did his uu go over 5mil, in any of my logs.

i hi five Judgment for standing up for one of their friends, i really do... but up until yesterday we were friends aswell... i wouldnt turn on someone ive known and been on the same side as for 9 years if i wasnt 100% positive.

Tees, I work as a program analyst and DBA (I mentioned that) so know full well they record seconds, I was talking about micro-seconds which is much less likely to be recorded using MySQL + PHP (which I assume is the setup). They would of had to have coded an extra function outside of the default timestamps which only reach seconds. But if you were worth your salt as a programmer you would know that the time log recorded times can be vastly different from the client side request times. With all the server issues lately, I wouldn't be suprised if what you are seeing is a disparity between when the server received your page requests, and when the pages were recorded/generated. No stress, you will learn that in time.

I see no evidence that he trained 2,709,055 units exactly, all I see is the army that was served up to you? You have nothing but your logs, and a hurt ego. Trust me I know that makes it easy for you to think something is amiss but what the picture you are drawing is far beyond conclusive evidence. Which you are right in reporting, but it is a long stretch from a smoking gun.

You should see I never said Harch was innocent, even though I personally know he is, I just was highlighting the fact that client side macros are almost indistinguishable from human input.

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train, admittedly I go about the speed of smell, but that seems fairly easy explanation as to how you would train a certain amount. Once again, the line between what is humanly possible and not becomes pretty blurred.

WTH you said ?'???
can.t be a bad setup on script ?
who build it why not use a random nr not the 5 mil

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train
yup is a script because you not have time to copy and paste take out naq repair weapon and in same time atac

why all try talk ????bah

R0B3RT wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

teesdale wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

D3ath wrote:thats why i was already saying for ages, make logs show the exact time of hits with seconds or even miliseconds, then it would be much easier to detect and catch scripters, but looks like noone supports that idea.

p.s. i do have hard time against some people as well that i think they are inhumane

TL;DR - see bold colour

I would assume they probably don't record milliseconds in the database, or if they do are recording it in different fields that are displayed in the logs. I don't think at the end of the day it makes much difference, scripting (client side macros) by it's very nature are designed to mimic human action (to avoid laborious repetitive tasks).

I have thought about this a lot previously, not just for this game, I work in programming and data analysis... how detectable is scripting? At what point is the actions considered "inhuman" or setting an unfair advantage? Consider the idea of solving a Rubik's cube, takes me about 10 minutes to solve it and I consider myself decent. The human world record is like 5 seconds, the machine world record is probably around 1 second I believe. So to me and my best time, there is only a 0.7% difference in the best human and the best machine (remember that is the BEST machine). The differentiation of what I can achieve and what a machine can is indistinguishable without video evidence.

This is pretty well the same case for in game scripts. I have seen people that have been able to expertly repair, retrain, bank etc. with multiple windows mostly on what must be muscle memory. You do something enough it just becomes instinct. This has been backed up by being on the receiving end of some of the finest SGW has seen. It is the same vast chasm between my time on solving a Rubik's cube and the world champions. Obviously without each individual player videoing every single interaction with their computer/device it is near impossible to differentiate between a client side macro and human action.

I don't envy the admin that would have only limited server side data to try and make this correlation, as is the nature of client side macros, the differentiation is going to be such a minor thing. I mean you are talking about a game that has so many repeat actions and repeatable patterns naturally you could easily be banned for just being too clinical.

*edit - added TL;DR shortcuts

i beleive the database does record seconds - witch is why im asking for a check...

SO, i will put this to you, unbiased not as hach's friend, but as someone that works in programming and analysis:

statistically, what are the chances of Harch training the exact amount to get back to exactly 5,000,000 defenders just once, with more than 1 attack per second coming in?
taking into the account he has to work out how many units it will take - untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank - all in the time between two hits - still remembering im averaging a hit per second.

you can miracle fluke it if your super fast at maths, and caught me repairing at the same time (see highlighted attacks #4, where he only retrained 125k).

NOW, the highlighted attacks numbers 2 and 3, he trained both times exactly 2,709,055 units, to put him back on exactly 5mil.
humanly, statistically, what are the chances of him training those exact amounts after the exact amount of units has died without computer assistance?
Taking into account he would have again had to untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank still all in the time between two hits?

what are the chances of him doing that 4 between 350 hits?

never once have i questioned ETL or Maths massings, and ive had my ass handed to me by them both many a times, aswell as duders, Rob, alot of others.
the difference is not only do they make the odd mistake, they dont calculate and train precise amounts of units in milliseconds.
remember ive been here for many years too, massing the whole time.

also what more are the chances of him training those EXACT numbers, when this is his explination of it:

Scott/Harch wrote:I didn't train exactly? I was training 7mill everytime u were massing me

I had TeamViewer set up on another laptop and I had u tabbed down
[4/25/2016 9:18:25 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: As soon as u got me to the hundreds I trained 6 then u massed below 5
[4/25/2016 9:18:34 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: So I did 7

not once did his uu go over 5mil, in any of my logs.

i hi five Judgment for standing up for one of their friends, i really do... but up until yesterday we were friends aswell... i wouldnt turn on someone ive known and been on the same side as for 9 years if i wasnt 100% positive.

Tees, I work as a program analyst and DBA (I mentioned that) so know full well they record seconds, I was talking about micro-seconds which is much less likely to be recorded using MySQL + PHP (which I assume is the setup). They would of had to have coded an extra function outside of the default timestamps which only reach seconds. But if you were worth your salt as a programmer you would know that the time log recorded times can be vastly different from the client side request times. With all the server issues lately, I wouldn't be suprised if what you are seeing is a disparity between when the server received your page requests, and when the pages were recorded/generated. No stress, you will learn that in time.

I see no evidence that he trained 2,709,055 units exactly, all I see is the army that was served up to you? You have nothing but your logs, and a hurt ego. Trust me I know that makes it easy for you to think something is amiss but what the picture you are drawing is far beyond conclusive evidence. Which you are right in reporting, but it is a long stretch from a smoking gun.

You should see I never said Harch was innocent, even though I personally know he is, I just was highlighting the fact that client side macros are almost indistinguishable from human input.

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train, admittedly I go about the speed of smell, but that seems fairly easy explanation as to how you would train a certain amount. Once again, the line between what is humanly possible and not becomes pretty blurred.

WTH you said ?'???
can.t be a bad setup on script ?
who build it why not use a random nr not the 5 mil

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train
yup is a script because you not have time to copy and paste take out naq repair weapon and in same time atac

why all try talk ????bah

No idea what you are saying Rob... but the calculator isn't a script, it is a calculator. You know those computer things you type numbers in to work out sums? I still have to enter the numbers, it just stays on my screen rather than the windows one which I have to switch between it and the browser.

overlord elz wrote:

R0B3RT wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

teesdale wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

D3ath wrote:thats why i was already saying for ages, make logs show the exact time of hits with seconds or even miliseconds, then it would be much easier to detect and catch scripters, but looks like noone supports that idea.

p.s. i do have hard time against some people as well that i think they are inhumane

TL;DR - see bold colour

I would assume they probably don't record milliseconds in the database, or if they do are recording it in different fields that are displayed in the logs. I don't think at the end of the day it makes much difference, scripting (client side macros) by it's very nature are designed to mimic human action (to avoid laborious repetitive tasks).

I have thought about this a lot previously, not just for this game, I work in programming and data analysis... how detectable is scripting? At what point is the actions considered "inhuman" or setting an unfair advantage? Consider the idea of solving a Rubik's cube, takes me about 10 minutes to solve it and I consider myself decent. The human world record is like 5 seconds, the machine world record is probably around 1 second I believe. So to me and my best time, there is only a 0.7% difference in the best human and the best machine (remember that is the BEST machine). The differentiation of what I can achieve and what a machine can is indistinguishable without video evidence.

This is pretty well the same case for in game scripts. I have seen people that have been able to expertly repair, retrain, bank etc. with multiple windows mostly on what must be muscle memory. You do something enough it just becomes instinct. This has been backed up by being on the receiving end of some of the finest SGW has seen. It is the same vast chasm between my time on solving a Rubik's cube and the world champions. Obviously without each individual player videoing every single interaction with their computer/device it is near impossible to differentiate between a client side macro and human action.

I don't envy the admin that would have only limited server side data to try and make this correlation, as is the nature of client side macros, the differentiation is going to be such a minor thing. I mean you are talking about a game that has so many repeat actions and repeatable patterns naturally you could easily be banned for just being too clinical.

*edit - added TL;DR shortcuts

i beleive the database does record seconds - witch is why im asking for a check...

SO, i will put this to you, unbiased not as hach's friend, but as someone that works in programming and analysis:

statistically, what are the chances of Harch training the exact amount to get back to exactly 5,000,000 defenders just once, with more than 1 attack per second coming in?
taking into the account he has to work out how many units it will take - untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank - all in the time between two hits - still remembering im averaging a hit per second.

you can miracle fluke it if your super fast at maths, and caught me repairing at the same time (see highlighted attacks #4, where he only retrained 125k).

NOW, the highlighted attacks numbers 2 and 3, he trained both times exactly 2,709,055 units, to put him back on exactly 5mil.
humanly, statistically, what are the chances of him training those exact amounts after the exact amount of units has died without computer assistance?
Taking into account he would have again had to untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank still all in the time between two hits?

what are the chances of him doing that 4 between 350 hits?

never once have i questioned ETL or Maths massings, and ive had my ass handed to me by them both many a times, aswell as duders, Rob, alot of others.
the difference is not only do they make the odd mistake, they dont calculate and train precise amounts of units in milliseconds.
remember ive been here for many years too, massing the whole time.

also what more are the chances of him training those EXACT numbers, when this is his explination of it:

Scott/Harch wrote:I didn't train exactly? I was training 7mill everytime u were massing me

I had TeamViewer set up on another laptop and I had u tabbed down
[4/25/2016 9:18:25 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: As soon as u got me to the hundreds I trained 6 then u massed below 5
[4/25/2016 9:18:34 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: So I did 7

not once did his uu go over 5mil, in any of my logs.

i hi five Judgment for standing up for one of their friends, i really do... but up until yesterday we were friends aswell... i wouldnt turn on someone ive known and been on the same side as for 9 years if i wasnt 100% positive.

Tees, I work as a program analyst and DBA (I mentioned that) so know full well they record seconds, I was talking about micro-seconds which is much less likely to be recorded using MySQL + PHP (which I assume is the setup). They would of had to have coded an extra function outside of the default timestamps which only reach seconds. But if you were worth your salt as a programmer you would know that the time log recorded times can be vastly different from the client side request times. With all the server issues lately, I wouldn't be suprised if what you are seeing is a disparity between when the server received your page requests, and when the pages were recorded/generated. No stress, you will learn that in time.

I see no evidence that he trained 2,709,055 units exactly, all I see is the army that was served up to you? You have nothing but your logs, and a hurt ego. Trust me I know that makes it easy for you to think something is amiss but what the picture you are drawing is far beyond conclusive evidence. Which you are right in reporting, but it is a long stretch from a smoking gun.

You should see I never said Harch was innocent, even though I personally know he is, I just was highlighting the fact that client side macros are almost indistinguishable from human input.

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train, admittedly I go about the speed of smell, but that seems fairly easy explanation as to how you would train a certain amount. Once again, the line between what is humanly possible and not becomes pretty blurred.

WTH you said ?'???
can.t be a bad setup on script ?
who build it why not use a random nr not the 5 mil

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train
yup is a script because you not have time to copy and paste take out naq repair weapon and in same time atac

why all try talk ????bah

No idea what you are saying Rob... but the calculator isn't a script, it is a calculator. You know those computer things you type numbers in to work out sums? I still have to enter the numbers, it just stays on my screen rather than the windows one which I have to switch between it and the browser.

Longest quote ever! Lol

The Tribulation wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

R0B3RT wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

teesdale wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

D3ath wrote:thats why i was already saying for ages, make logs show the exact time of hits with seconds or even miliseconds, then it would be much easier to detect and catch scripters, but looks like noone supports that idea.

p.s. i do have hard time against some people as well that i think they are inhumane

TL;DR - see bold colour

I would assume they probably don't record milliseconds in the database, or if they do are recording it in different fields that are displayed in the logs. I don't think at the end of the day it makes much difference, scripting (client side macros) by it's very nature are designed to mimic human action (to avoid laborious repetitive tasks).

I have thought about this a lot previously, not just for this game, I work in programming and data analysis... how detectable is scripting? At what point is the actions considered "inhuman" or setting an unfair advantage? Consider the idea of solving a Rubik's cube, takes me about 10 minutes to solve it and I consider myself decent. The human world record is like 5 seconds, the machine world record is probably around 1 second I believe. So to me and my best time, there is only a 0.7% difference in the best human and the best machine (remember that is the BEST machine). The differentiation of what I can achieve and what a machine can is indistinguishable without video evidence.

This is pretty well the same case for in game scripts. I have seen people that have been able to expertly repair, retrain, bank etc. with multiple windows mostly on what must be muscle memory. You do something enough it just becomes instinct. This has been backed up by being on the receiving end of some of the finest SGW has seen. It is the same vast chasm between my time on solving a Rubik's cube and the world champions. Obviously without each individual player videoing every single interaction with their computer/device it is near impossible to differentiate between a client side macro and human action.

I don't envy the admin that would have only limited server side data to try and make this correlation, as is the nature of client side macros, the differentiation is going to be such a minor thing. I mean you are talking about a game that has so many repeat actions and repeatable patterns naturally you could easily be banned for just being too clinical.

*edit - added TL;DR shortcuts

i beleive the database does record seconds - witch is why im asking for a check...

SO, i will put this to you, unbiased not as hach's friend, but as someone that works in programming and analysis:

statistically, what are the chances of Harch training the exact amount to get back to exactly 5,000,000 defenders just once, with more than 1 attack per second coming in?
taking into the account he has to work out how many units it will take - untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank - all in the time between two hits - still remembering im averaging a hit per second.

you can miracle fluke it if your super fast at maths, and caught me repairing at the same time (see highlighted attacks #4, where he only retrained 125k).

NOW, the highlighted attacks numbers 2 and 3, he trained both times exactly 2,709,055 units, to put him back on exactly 5mil.
humanly, statistically, what are the chances of him training those exact amounts after the exact amount of units has died without computer assistance?
Taking into account he would have again had to untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank still all in the time between two hits?

what are the chances of him doing that 4 between 350 hits?

never once have i questioned ETL or Maths massings, and ive had my ass handed to me by them both many a times, aswell as duders, Rob, alot of others.
the difference is not only do they make the odd mistake, they dont calculate and train precise amounts of units in milliseconds.
remember ive been here for many years too, massing the whole time.

also what more are the chances of him training those EXACT numbers, when this is his explination of it:

Scott/Harch wrote:I didn't train exactly? I was training 7mill everytime u were massing me

I had TeamViewer set up on another laptop and I had u tabbed down
[4/25/2016 9:18:25 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: As soon as u got me to the hundreds I trained 6 then u massed below 5
[4/25/2016 9:18:34 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: So I did 7

not once did his uu go over 5mil, in any of my logs.

i hi five Judgment for standing up for one of their friends, i really do... but up until yesterday we were friends aswell... i wouldnt turn on someone ive known and been on the same side as for 9 years if i wasnt 100% positive.

Tees, I work as a program analyst and DBA (I mentioned that) so know full well they record seconds, I was talking about micro-seconds which is much less likely to be recorded using MySQL + PHP (which I assume is the setup). They would of had to have coded an extra function outside of the default timestamps which only reach seconds. But if you were worth your salt as a programmer you would know that the time log recorded times can be vastly different from the client side request times. With all the server issues lately, I wouldn't be suprised if what you are seeing is a disparity between when the server received your page requests, and when the pages were recorded/generated. No stress, you will learn that in time.

I see no evidence that he trained 2,709,055 units exactly, all I see is the army that was served up to you? You have nothing but your logs, and a hurt ego. Trust me I know that makes it easy for you to think something is amiss but what the picture you are drawing is far beyond conclusive evidence. Which you are right in reporting, but it is a long stretch from a smoking gun.

You should see I never said Harch was innocent, even though I personally know he is, I just was highlighting the fact that client side macros are almost indistinguishable from human input.

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train, admittedly I go about the speed of smell, but that seems fairly easy explanation as to how you would train a certain amount. Once again, the line between what is humanly possible and not becomes pretty blurred.

WTH you said ?'???
can.t be a bad setup on script ?
who build it why not use a random nr not the 5 mil

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train
yup is a script because you not have time to copy and paste take out naq repair weapon and in same time atac

why all try talk ????bah

No idea what you are saying Rob... but the calculator isn't a script, it is a calculator. You know those computer things you type numbers in to work out sums? I still have to enter the numbers, it just stays on my screen rather than the windows one which I have to switch between it and the browser.

Longest quote ever! Lol

Damn it! I was just about to post that!!

My_Crows wrote:

The Tribulation wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

R0B3RT wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

teesdale wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

D3ath wrote:thats why i was already saying for ages, make logs show the exact time of hits with seconds or even miliseconds, then it would be much easier to detect and catch scripters, but looks like noone supports that idea.

p.s. i do have hard time against some people as well that i think they are inhumane

TL;DR - see bold colour

I would assume they probably don't record milliseconds in the database, or if they do are recording it in different fields that are displayed in the logs. I don't think at the end of the day it makes much difference, scripting (client side macros) by it's very nature are designed to mimic human action (to avoid laborious repetitive tasks).

I have thought about this a lot previously, not just for this game, I work in programming and data analysis... how detectable is scripting? At what point is the actions considered "inhuman" or setting an unfair advantage? Consider the idea of solving a Rubik's cube, takes me about 10 minutes to solve it and I consider myself decent. The human world record is like 5 seconds, the machine world record is probably around 1 second I believe. So to me and my best time, there is only a 0.7% difference in the best human and the best machine (remember that is the BEST machine). The differentiation of what I can achieve and what a machine can is indistinguishable without video evidence.

This is pretty well the same case for in game scripts. I have seen people that have been able to expertly repair, retrain, bank etc. with multiple windows mostly on what must be muscle memory. You do something enough it just becomes instinct. This has been backed up by being on the receiving end of some of the finest SGW has seen. It is the same vast chasm between my time on solving a Rubik's cube and the world champions. Obviously without each individual player videoing every single interaction with their computer/device it is near impossible to differentiate between a client side macro and human action.

I don't envy the admin that would have only limited server side data to try and make this correlation, as is the nature of client side macros, the differentiation is going to be such a minor thing. I mean you are talking about a game that has so many repeat actions and repeatable patterns naturally you could easily be banned for just being too clinical.

*edit - added TL;DR shortcuts

i beleive the database does record seconds - witch is why im asking for a check...

SO, i will put this to you, unbiased not as hach's friend, but as someone that works in programming and analysis:

statistically, what are the chances of Harch training the exact amount to get back to exactly 5,000,000 defenders just once, with more than 1 attack per second coming in?
taking into the account he has to work out how many units it will take - untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank - all in the time between two hits - still remembering im averaging a hit per second.

you can miracle fluke it if your super fast at maths, and caught me repairing at the same time (see highlighted attacks #4, where he only retrained 125k).

NOW, the highlighted attacks numbers 2 and 3, he trained both times exactly 2,709,055 units, to put him back on exactly 5mil.
humanly, statistically, what are the chances of him training those exact amounts after the exact amount of units has died without computer assistance?
Taking into account he would have again had to untrain them as he had no uu on hand, withdraw naq, train them into normal defenders, train them again into supers, repair weaps and bank still all in the time between two hits?

what are the chances of him doing that 4 between 350 hits?

never once have i questioned ETL or Maths massings, and ive had my ass handed to me by them both many a times, aswell as duders, Rob, alot of others.
the difference is not only do they make the odd mistake, they dont calculate and train precise amounts of units in milliseconds.
remember ive been here for many years too, massing the whole time.

also what more are the chances of him training those EXACT numbers, when this is his explination of it:

Scott/Harch wrote:I didn't train exactly? I was training 7mill everytime u were massing me

I had TeamViewer set up on another laptop and I had u tabbed down
[4/25/2016 9:18:25 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: As soon as u got me to the hundreds I trained 6 then u massed below 5
[4/25/2016 9:18:34 PM] Scott - Harch DDE: So I did 7

not once did his uu go over 5mil, in any of my logs.

i hi five Judgment for standing up for one of their friends, i really do... but up until yesterday we were friends aswell... i wouldnt turn on someone ive known and been on the same side as for 9 years if i wasnt 100% positive.

Tees, I work as a program analyst and DBA (I mentioned that) so know full well they record seconds, I was talking about micro-seconds which is much less likely to be recorded using MySQL + PHP (which I assume is the setup). They would of had to have coded an extra function outside of the default timestamps which only reach seconds. But if you were worth your salt as a programmer you would know that the time log recorded times can be vastly different from the client side request times. With all the server issues lately, I wouldn't be suprised if what you are seeing is a disparity between when the server received your page requests, and when the pages were recorded/generated. No stress, you will learn that in time.

I see no evidence that he trained 2,709,055 units exactly, all I see is the army that was served up to you? You have nothing but your logs, and a hurt ego. Trust me I know that makes it easy for you to think something is amiss but what the picture you are drawing is far beyond conclusive evidence. Which you are right in reporting, but it is a long stretch from a smoking gun.

You should see I never said Harch was innocent, even though I personally know he is, I just was highlighting the fact that client side macros are almost indistinguishable from human input.

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train, admittedly I go about the speed of smell, but that seems fairly easy explanation as to how you would train a certain amount. Once again, the line between what is humanly possible and not becomes pretty blurred.

WTH you said ?'???
can.t be a bad setup on script ?
who build it why not use a random nr not the 5 mil

I use a calculator plugin on my browser to work out how much to train
yup is a script because you not have time to copy and paste take out naq repair weapon and in same time atac

why all try talk ????bah

No idea what you are saying Rob... but the calculator isn't a script, it is a calculator. You know those computer things you type numbers in to work out sums? I still have to enter the numbers, it just stays on my screen rather than the windows one which I have to switch between it and the browser.

Longest quote ever! Lol

Damn it! I was just about to post that!!

I will add to the longest quote ever and also add
Tees has a point.
The retraining bit is next too impossible
If u can retrain back too exact amounts whilst being massed your either a. Cheating
Or b. Touched by god

Flintcawk wrote:
....

I will add to the longest quote ever and also add
Tees has a point.
The retraining bit is next too impossible
If u can retrain back too exact amounts whilst being massed your either a. Cheating
Or b. Touched by god

If that is all it takes to have a valid case, I shall commence my evidence gathering against all those that have equitable losses on a regular basis

overlord elz wrote:

Flintcawk wrote:
....

I will add to the longest quote ever and also add
Tees has a point.
The retraining bit is next too impossible
If u can retrain back too exact amounts whilst being massed your either a. Cheating
Or b. Touched by god

If that is all it takes to have a valid case, I shall commence my evidence gathering against all those that have equitable losses on a regular basis

So you don't think the fact each time he retrained during a war/war massing it was to 5,000,000 is slightly suspicious?

overlord elz wrote:

Flintcawk wrote:
....

I will add to the longest quote ever and also add
Tees has a point.
The retraining bit is next too impossible
If u can retrain back too exact amounts whilst being massed your either a. Cheating
Or b. Touched by god

If that is all it takes to have a valid case, I shall commence my evidence gathering against all those that have equitable losses on a regular basis

Plz do.
provide the details as tees has and you will be doing the server a favor.
All im saying is the evidence tees has provided is EXTREMELY eye brow raising
No one retrains to exact 5 mills during onliner,

Flintcawk wrote:

overlord elz wrote:

Flintcawk wrote:
....

I will add to the longest quote ever and also add
Tees has a point.
The retraining bit is next too impossible
If u can retrain back too exact amounts whilst being massed your either a. Cheating
Or b. Touched by god

If that is all it takes to have a valid case, I shall commence my evidence gathering against all those that have equitable losses on a regular basis

Plz do.
provide the details as tees has and you will be doing the server a favor.
All im saying is the evidence tees has provided is EXTREMELY eye brow raising
No one retrains to exact 5 mills during onliner,

i find it very suspicious, most of us know that jules is not going to make this public, especially if it is harch.