Alliance Houses - Discussion

[Brdavs]

House of Faith (+4% Ascended Blessing)
Let's look at this closely. An Unknown supposedly has a 58% chance of getting a blessing. A Prophet has a 5% chance. Adding 4% blessing will actually be more beneficial to lower ascension levels. Why?
UnKnown = 4% / 58% = 7% more blessings
Prophet = 4% / 5% = 80% more blessings
An UnKnown only increases their chance of getting a blessing by 7% than before... while a Prophet who rarely gets a blessing increases their chance by 80%.

In other words, an Unknown who will already get **Filtered** of blessings, will hardly notice a difference while a Prophet will almost see himself getting a blessing twice as often.

In other words, 62% total looks impressive... but really isn't that noticeable.

Thats a nifty game of numbers that dont really tell much lol.

Look at it this way... howmany % more expensive are the last few ascensions compared to a priors one? Prior may gain the 80% but he can gain them for dirt cheap anyways. An unknown gets a gift worth 100s of trillions. Not to mention someone outside faith cant catch up even if he were to have 100s of trils to put on the line cos hes hardcapped from ascending.
A ton of naq equaling gift plus no way for anyone to mitigate. Also nudging you more towardfs "2 blessings in 3" hits from "1 blessing in 2" is damn sure more noticable than the few percents prior gets. So all in all faith sounds pritty usefull.




All in all, out of 465 active alliances on rankings 85 partake in the houses updates. Less than a fifth.
And that number will drop, you cant expect house of time to have close of a third of the 85 alliances in there forever. Nobody wants to be force napped to (that) many.
So how is that a good update overall? Its like admin has split personalities. One update he goes in to level the field, the next he puts in tools to only empower the allready empowered.

Got to admit Max that all makes alot of sense, unless u doubled or even possibly tripled these ammounts or are allowed to buy increases at an obscenely high amount - of course thru the alliance bank which would not be allowed to put money in physically - just thru the 1%income subtraction. there really is no difference to reg stats.

Disaster, considering we have some alliances 9bil citizens strong that make in one turn a decent sized players worth of naq. You cant have the price high enough to get it out of reach for the big alliances, we`re swimming in alliance naq. Prices are a joke. 2bil and 4bil? Our alliance makes a couple of times as much per turn. Thank god ppt is limited to 12h we could go on a wave lasting years. And wherever you price the upgrades it we`ll get it while smaller alliances stand there scratching themselve how yet again those with the most get even more.
So please, only cosmetic upgrades.

Or make houses creatable and use the alliance naq to custome tailore their bonuses, but cap those bonuses, so that those of us with fat fat kitties cant run away.

[Robe]

I disagree because the combined benefit of controlling several houses provides a significant bonus to an Empire, especially if you secure a pair

Two crappy bonuses do not make a significant bonus.

We will have to agree to disagree.
I think Faith and Science together provide a distinct advantage.
An empire can place their highly ascended players in Faith and training teams in Science.

I dont think Admins intent was for empires or allied groups to control paired Houses.
However, they have demonstrated that they easily can, without even raising a sweat

So what started as a reasonable idea is not working in practice for several reasons,
including one of your points below...

It only makes sense that an Empire and it's allies go and controls both of them. If anything, House of Science should be a % decreased chance of ascended blessing. Not 100% and completely negate House of Faith's bonus.

Of course we all know there is more to controlling houses than population.
Independent allainces simply do not want to be the natural enemy of a powerful empire because the benefits do not outweigh the costs...

[Kaps1]

Agreed with Robe. There is a distinct Lopsidedness to the house at the moment. The politics of game prevent any type of even distribution of power. Robe's Idea about changing bonus ratios, and the one she and I had about adding houses will solve this problem.


Making it so the smaller alliances won't fear getting into houses. And with the 5 suggestions that were made, UP/Raiding, MS/Planet, and then the chameleon house I suggested, it opens up doors for a more varied power structure, and leave a few houses no one but growing alliances/accounts would want.

[BMMJ13]

While I agree with many parts of the houses, there seems to be only a few decent houses: science being the best, then shadow and faith being both pretty good, and the rest being quite insignificant (Time maybe seen as a 4th beneficial house). All 3 of those are controlled by one of two major groups of allies (as factions would not be the correct term), which makes it seem like those other houses either need more bonus or the 3 current ones need to be less significant. It seems like a few houses have a majority of people, while others have little or none. Perhaps a better Idea would be to make a few houses and have them customizable with the bonus being a % of a maximum based on the houses population compared to other houses total population.

[Travis Dane]

You know Max, I grab your enthusiasm in all this but i looked and i looked at that one post with your math:

[spoiler]MaxSterling wrote:
House of Faith (+4% Ascended Blessing)
Let's look at this closely. An Unknown supposedly has a 58% chance of getting a blessing. A Prophet has a 5% chance. Adding 4% blessing will actually be more beneficial to lower ascension levels. Why?
UnKnown = 4% / 58% = 7% more blessings
Prophet = 4% / 5% = 80% more blessings
An UnKnown only increases their chance of getting a blessing by 7% than before... while a Prophet who rarely gets a blessing increases their chance by 80%.

In other words, an Unknown who will already get **Filtered** of blessings, will hardly notice a difference while a Prophet will almost see himself getting a blessing twice as often.

In other words, 62% total looks impressive... but really isn't that noticeable.[/spoiler]

I have a feeling, you may be reading this wrong.

House of Faith (+4% Ascended Blessing)

I dont think he means add on 4% of whatever % of a chance u have before acquiring the house bonus. If though i was getting a 4% add on of whatever % i was getting, I would certainly want the 4% more gained from having a 58% already chance of AB hitting.

If instead it isnt just adding +4% to the already 58% making it just 62% chance of hitting and making the then 5% now 9% i do believe the equations need to look something like this:

.58 x .04 =.0232 and then add that to 58 equalling then 60.232% chance, that being less than adding on a straight 4%

05 x .04 = .002 gain or totalling now only a 5.002 percant chance of AB hitting.

[BMMJ13]

You know Max, I grab your enthusiasm in all this but i looked and i looked athat that one with your math:

[spoiler]MaxSterling wrote:
House of Faith (+4% Ascended Blessing)
Let's look at this closely. An Unknown supposedly has a 58% chance of getting a blessing. A Prophet has a 5% chance. Adding 4% blessing will actually be more beneficial to lower ascension levels. Why?
UnKnown = 4% / 58% = 7% more blessings
Prophet = 4% / 5% = 80% more blessings
An UnKnown only increases their chance of getting a blessing by 7% than before... while a Prophet who rarely gets a blessing increases their chance by 80%.

In other words, an Unknown who will already get **Filtered** of blessings, will hardly notice a difference while a Prophet will almost see himself getting a blessing twice as often.

In other words, 62% total looks impressive... but really isn't that noticeable.[/spoiler]

I have a feeling, you may be reading this wrong.

House of Faith (+4% Ascended Blessing)

I dont think he means add on 4% of whatever % of a chance u have before acquiring the house bonus. If though i was getting a 4% add on of whatever % i was getting, I would certainly want the 4% more gained from having a 58% already chance of AB hitting.

If instead it isnt just adding +4% to the already 58% making it just 62% chance of hitting and making the then 5% now 9% i do believe the equations need to look something like this:

.58 x .04 =.0232 and then add that to 58 equalling then 60.232% chance, that being less than adding on a straight 4%

05 x .04 = .002 gain or totalling now only a 5.002 percant chance of AB hitting.

Better way to look at it is the chance of not getting a blessing. 58% to 62% is 38% chance of no AB from 42%, or 10% less chance of it not happening. 5% to 9% is 95% to 91% or 4% less chance of it not happening. While being one of the better house bonuses, I don't feel it is obscenely good, especially with the opposite house countering it completely.

[jedi~tank]

It doesnt matter if you change the bonus or not, if a well organized empire wants 2 houses they will have 2 no matter what thier bonus given is edit, play smarter and many can enjoy the benefits of them all

I would also suggest that there be someway to "force" (for lack of a better word) alliances/empires/individual players to be progressing i.e growing and maintain themselves at a certain level in order to benefit from any type of bonus from any game structure that is devised.

[BenjaminMS]

And those who are new then or not powerfull enough, would be left out then and be even more left behind

[jedi~tank]

OK so catch up LOL dont whine because you chose to remain stagnant

[BenjaminMS]

You DO realize that likely, since 'bigger' accounts are growing at an faster rate then the less powerfull accounts, this would be less likely, certainly since the majority of the newer players would need to grasp the game first.... also, not everyone is that active.... I know I am pretty active, but I've got enough friends who aren't that active due to RL issues, some of them which are in varying alliances...
The amount of people who leave the game is already high enough, you don't want to make this higher by forcing an amount of power needed for gaining certain advantages.... which in the end would benefit only those who don't need the advantage.

[MEZZANINE]

OK so catch up LOL dont whine because you chose to remain stagnant

Yeah like JT says, just catch up, take out a 2nd mortgage on your house to dump a ton of $$$$$ onto your account, or sit in front of the PC 24/7 turn farming you wimps and stop whining

Seriously no wonder there are fewer and fewer new players, with the current game set up why would they waste their time. I have recommended to, and gotten several RL friends play in the past, I would not recommend the game to anyone in it's current state because my friends like me do not have money to throw away and have RLs.





Lets look back and past attempts to make the newer player able to catch up and compete

1) Raiding, great, dont have to rely on UP, new players can build up armies through activity. What happened, older player exploited a bug known to a few and raided themselves armysizes no-one not cheating could match, with no comebacks or bannings even when it was exposed. Then the $$$ traders came in raiding to sell and crashed the resource market.

2) More ascensions, great lets increase ascensions so older player have to reset techs/UPs/MSs to ascend or get over taken by newer players. What happens, MSs are quickly exempted because the old players dont like it, then ascensions are made so expensive newer players simply cant do them, now coverts are reduced to a point where new players cant even get in G&R.

3) Houses, lets make a elite bonus for those so big they dont need it, and the only way the new players can get in on this bonus is to join an empire as a footsoldier and obey orders, like that fun or fair.

Why not just scrap the registration screen and refuse new players, would have the same effect. Short term gain of keeping the old guard $$ spenders happy over the long term benefit of new blood.

Rant over

[Robe]

Has anyone got any more ideas on Houses now we have had time to test them?

Some ideas posted so far for new houses

Kaps1
Chameleon - Choose and change bonus every 30 days vs Natural Enemy
UP - 5% Increased UP vs 15% Increase Raiding

Robe
Ascended - 10% Increased Ascended Power vs 100% Negates all (cant be Descended)
Fleets/Planets - 10% increase in Fleet Power vs an extra merlin per day
MS - 5% increase in power vs 100% negates all (like Science)

Existing Houses

High Empty
Time 25 % Increased Turn Generation - can hold 15k turns for traders

Jedi~Tank
Cap number of alliances that can join a House

[jedi~tank]

As for the Cap on houses in alliance..this is how I would start off the plans..

*Houses capped at say 5 alliances per house
*In order for an alliance to move into a full house a form of takeover must occur..such as..a 6th alliance can join for X amount of days and has the alloted time to supercede the weakest alliance in power to establish control..and/or challenge an alliance for thier position in a war setting based on POINTS not ME.

[Sarevok]

As for the Cap on houses in alliance..this is how I would start off the plans..

*Houses capped at say 5 alliances per house
*In order for an alliance to move into a full house a form of takeover must occur..such as..a 6th alliance can join for X amount of days and has the alloted time to supercede the weakest alliance in power to establish control..and/or challenge an alliance for thier position in a war setting based on POINTS not ME.

I like this concept. If we could get the alliance war fixed. Perhaps they could engage there, and whomever wins gets the 5th spot?

[Lord Yojimbo]

As for the Cap on houses in alliance..this is how I would start off the plans..

*Houses capped at say 5 alliances per house
*In order for an alliance to move into a full house a form of takeover must occur..such as..a 6th alliance can join for X amount of days and has the alloted time to supercede the weakest alliance in power to establish control..and/or challenge an alliance for thier position in a war setting based on POINTS not ME.

The ""proportional"" house voting system is a shambles

A cap might limit alliances wanting to enter? but to be honest most seem unwilling to enter due to the risks associated adn the current layout and thus making a cap more restrictive, selective and pointless...i think the voting rights needs to be sorted however...if a new alliance of young players wants to be part of a house or challenge they cant due to the massive armies of the extablished powers....

this has left to the collpase of uu sellers on the market as a side effect

We could have 1 allaince - 1 vote? OR =

1) i think an alliance should have army to vote ratio with a average calculated cap to simplfy the process and allow otehr alliances outside the established powers establish themselves in the house system - only problem is it doent truely felect an alliance's influence so maybe a certain amoint of votes per 50-100mill army with a cap at 1.5-2 bill (dependent of average active alliance size throughout the game)

alliance total army size

100mill - 1 vote
200mill - 2 votes
300mill......

all up to 2bill - 20 votes

OR

100mill - 1 vote
400mill - 2 votes
800mill - 3 votes
1200mill = 1.2bill - 5 votes

all up to 2bill - 7 votes (if i am correct)

of course the cap and vote to army ratio will need to be tweaked in order to balance it out to a fair extent. This will ensure that smaller independent alliances will have more power but not completely disregarding the work done in the more established powers/players

2) or we could have a power/army ratio for each alliance as a net vote value?

3) or we could have a [power/army]/num or members ratio for each alliance as a net vote value?

As for science - its ability to negate AB comes witht eh fact that any in science cant get ABs in thier attack so thats a nice balance to it

More ideas to follow (if RL will sop consuming time )