The end of originality?

[Demeisen]

As the modern age continues will we eventually run out of original ideas?

in music, literature and other creative areas there are a finite number of variations available. after all there are only a limited amount of possible things that can happen or be described.

for example if you have enough songs about a man and his dog the lyrics and music will begin to repeat/mimic previous works given adequate time.

in the end we may be left with no more original ways to convey emotion, events or anything else.

so, are we doomed to a future of sequals, revised editions, cover versions and copies of things already imagined?

[Thriller]

no, because with a better understanding of love, war,... peace.... ect . Their will be new ways to express these ideas. Actually their is alot of really cool new art, philosophy, science happening right now, but it hasnt reached the mainstream yet. It's seems the people are becoming more content with the same old stuff (content with midiocrity). Sort of an intelectual stagnation. This happens throughout our history and is usually corrects itself. Although it always seems to happen violently.

Imagination has no limits.

[Tacet]

I'll agree with Thriller.

In the age of the great composers, trumpets were made without valves. So trumpet music was written for instruments that had a fairly limited range, and that was very difficult to play properly. Today, trumpets has valves, allowing their application in fast jazz, and in a totally different style than was possible before.

With the advent of new technology, new applications and new art forms becomes possible. Also, while our cultures intermingle and adopt to each other, they also develop their own characters further. With each culture comes some art, and each combination of culture brings forth new art.

And some remixes are creative enough to count for me as new art. Imagine the outroar if Beethoven should have heard the rock remixes of his 12'th symphony. Old thing, but with a new skin so different that it could be blasphemous to the original composer.

I don't think there's a finite amount of variations. At least, not until we've exhausted the galaxy in our quest for ideas. Anyway - if that should happen, there will always be a variation that I haven't heard yet, that will be new to me at least. (imagine listening to 2.3 trillion songs about a man and his dog...)

[Demeisen]

there are a limited number of possible variations of words so eventually things will begin repeating constantly though right? and what about when every possible shape, colour emotion has been expressed and painted by someone else, who probably did it better? if someone does the perfect verse it cant be improved upon, only copied and altered slightly. then people will run out of slight alterations and all that remains is a copy.

maybe in the past innovation has continued. but now we have modern technology. things are remembered. in the past they wouldnt remember the repeated material from the past. and the population size is growing which means more people creating things all the time.

try to hum an original tune to your self. you may think its totally new but it is probably has origins somewhere else and someone has definitely hummed it before.

how can you do something new when so many people around the world are doing the very same thing every day?

maybe technology will change some of this if there are new ways to express ideas, but eventually they will repeat themselves aswel. . .

id hate to think of a world where everything you do or think has been done and thought of before and by someone better than you. i can see that happening eventually.

the only way i can see of avoiding this is if its determined by human memory. if human memory doesnt stretch to the original the repeat will seem original.

[Tacet]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think we're there by a very long way yet. Look at it this way. If you work in binary (using only 0's and 1's), 1 digit gives you two options, 2 digits gives you 4 options... The relation is easy:

2^num_digits

if you have 2 ppl thinking of combinations of 0 and 1, up to 100 digits long, at 1 combination per second: they will have 1.2e30 combinations to think of. That should take them roughly 2e19 millenia to do that.

There are more than 24 (that's taking 2 octaves) notes in music. The same type of calculation gives me that, if two ppl should try out combinations of those notes, with the same time value to each note, with combinations of up to 10 notes long, it will take them about 1005 millenia to do it.

Add to that the number of time variations, and other dynamics such as speed and volume, and you have a staggering number of possibilities.

Yet what you say still holds. Eventually all possible combinations for a length of 10 notes will be done. After that 11 notes etc... Ok, so as the number of notes in the combination can go infinte, we won't ever hear the end of the song, and the originality will become pointless. (imagine a 2^1tril sequence, aggh).

Maybe the question should rather be whether mankind can survive until all ideas has been exhausted? I think not. That's another question though. I still feel that, for all practical purposes originality will not die out. Strictly theoretically: yes, it will. But we do not live in a strictly theoretical world.

[Lore]

there are a limited number of possible variations of words so eventually things will begin repeating constantly though right?

My answer is this, Both mans life and memory are short in comparission. Old ideas come back around and appear new again. Its possible your favorite "new" song has many "old" points to it.

As stated there are so many ways to express things, adding the fact for every new one found and old one is forgotten, makes it even more infinate.

JMO

[Thriller]

there are a limited number of possible variations of words so eventually things will begin repeating constantly though right? and what about when every possible shape, colour emotion has been expressed and painted by someone else, who probably did it better? if someone does the perfect verse it cant be improved upon, only copied and altered slightly. then people will run out of slight alterations and all that remains is a copy.

maybe in the past innovation has continued. but now we have modern technology. things are remembered. in the past they wouldnt remember the repeated material from the past. and the population size is growing which means more people creating things all the time.

try to hum an original tune to your self. you may think its totally new but it is probably has origins somewhere else and someone has definitely hummed it before.

how can you do something new when so many people around the world are doing the very same thing every day?


maybe technology will change some of this if there are new ways to express ideas, but eventually they will repeat themselves aswel. . .

id hate to think of a world where everything you do or think has been done and thought of before and by someone better than you. i can see that happening eventually.

the only way i can see of avoiding this is if its determined by human memory. if human memory doesnt stretch to the original the repeat will seem original.

If their ever comes to a point where every action has occurred prior, every amount of truth is learned, every idea fully developed. Then we sees to be Humans and are now gods

[urogard]

from a mathematical viewpoint I can only agree that there is only a limited amount of songs that can be made and the like.

From a practical, I don't think we will have ever reached this point in a very very long time.

Technology brings us more and more options.
Something as sci-fi didn't exist 400 years ago, so as time progresses, in literature we'll see new styles of writing maybe.
Concerning music, maybe something will be developed that will change how we can perceive music adding a whole new market and opening the chances for countless new ideas.

Just 2 random ideas

[Sabin le Rose]

Language is not static however.
It is constantly evolving.

Mankind is going to keep the flow on new languages, and words to older languages, far faster then the artistic world will be able to use, adapt, and assimilate all the new speaches.

My two cents.

[Tacet]

^^ which is worth more like 2$ than 2c.