Freedom of Message

[semper]

such topics have in the past been left open, and all that has come out of them has been bad feelings and disrespect... that is of course, till Forum has cleared out the issue, and that takes time... and then the chaos on the forums has often lasted much longer...

lol..should have just quoted me Zeratul..

[Lore]

In all I ahve written admin regarding guidlines in these circumstances in the future.

Are you refering to Jason? or to whom exactly?

[TheWay]

The thread was pointless yes, and was closed for the reason of being spam.

However, ive come accross ALOT more threads, many created by "certain people", that are nothing but outright spam, but arnt closed, or no warning or anything given.

If anything, the consitency of the mod "team" needs to change from being bias, and move more towards, if its spam, lock it, issue a verbal and go about your day. If the poster does it again, warn them, and lock the thread.


Its the inconsistancy in the Mod "team" that creates problems. You cant have all the mods doing things to there own likings, because thats how bias comes in and inconsistancy happends. If you lock that thread for spam, then I damn well sujest that you start doing it for all spam threads instead of turning the other way when "ceartain" people create the threads.

Well said, and all I want is guidelines for these issues

[Wolf359]

Tetrismonkey - You may come across other threads that are spam - but I can say with certainty that a lot more are moved/deleted than are 'left'/missed - we're not perfect, and never will be - but the current team is the best we have had for a long time, and steps are been taken internally to make it better. Additionally, when people 'come across these threads' do they bother to report them as spam/inappropriate, or do they just leave them, waiting to bring them up in an argument later on? That's a genuine question/observation, as my experience would seem to indicate the latter.

TheWay - The guidelines for the mods are the forum rules and game tos, the 2 not being mutually exclusive - I don't know how many times, or in any different way I can say that. Sometimes some situations aren't clear covered by the rules and a judgement call needs to be made - sometimes that call is right, sometimes it's wrong - my personal opinion in this case is that it was right. Guidelines also exist for users to raise issues - but are rarely adhered to.

The mod team itself is self-policing, with the Supermods keeping an eye on the mods, and the Admins keeping an eye overall, with the additional support of the ombudsman. As indicated above, there are already steps being taken to improve this.

Finally, there's a lot of talk about bias - everything is labelled 'bias' when someone doesn't like something that's happened - is it because it's easier to scream 'bias' rather than actually take the time to look at the situation and even bother to try and read/understand people's explanations? Again, my observations over the past 3 and a bit years would seem to indicate that it is. My personal opinion of this current team is that it is probably the least biased mod team we've EVER had.

[TheWay]

Look this all could have been handled very easily by someone saying we will look into it and discuss it. Instead I was told that you werent discussing it and that you probally wouldnt. I am the customer and as such should have my concerns handled in an appropriate way and both the answers I have gotten and the tone in which they where sent have been absolutly unacceptable.

In the end I could careless now wether this forum functions well or not and in the future will not attempt to make a stand or voice my oppinion on the matter.

What you will find is that if you handle those of us who care in this manner you will be stuck dealing with the ones who don't care without any support.

If you cannot understand what I am saying then I wonder how this forum and this game will function in the future, because the fact of the matter is I am the customer and wether or not this game is free I am responsible for bringing many people into this game who ahve in most cases bought ss or even more then that.

Then last but not least at the end of the day this forum and this game are ultimatly accountable to it's customers and as such this should have been handled differently

[Wolf359]

@ Tetris - I agree with a lot of your points - and have myself highlighted the issue of consistency amongst the mods recently - as have others of the team - my personal opinion is that it is an issue that has its roots in the past, thorugh other incarnations of the mod team - but rest assured, it is being examined.

However, my point was to say that the reasons the mod in particular closed the thread were justifiable to him at the time of closing - having seen his reasoning, and considered the forum/game rules/tos, no other mod saw fit to re-open it. Then it was complained about by TheWay, at which point the mods disagreed with him and did not see fit to discuss the matter internally. The mods will not do things because people demand them, they will do things because it needs to be done - and if TheWay or anybody else has a problem with that or think we're being unreasonable...well, I've already said a number of times what the process is.

@ TheWay - As said above, and previously - it was not discussed because we did not feel the need to discuss it - nor do we now - if you cannot accept that, or think it's unreasonable, then fine - take it through due process. You may be the customer - but even as mods, so are we. And just because you complain or think something is wrong, it doesn't mean you are right - and I happen to think that you're not right on this occasion. The customer is not always right - and whether you have brought people into the game and bought SS gives you no more rights to demand that your complaints are looked at anymore than anyone elses. It was looked at, but decided it didn't warrant further discussion - it's as simple as that; it shouldn't have been handled differently simply because you believe it should have.

Deciding not to voice opinions is your choice - but personally, I think it's disappointing to take that attitude seemingly because things haven't gone your way on this occasion.

Lastly - reference your complaint towards the attitude/tone of responses to you - if you are going to publicly make statements such as:

should have my concerns handled in an appropriate way and both the answers I have gotten and the tone in which they where sent have been absolutly unacceptable

....then at least state how it has been appropriate, and why it is unacceptable. I give direct and to the point responses, and I won't mince around and gloss it over to appear 'nice'. Having reviewed my responses, I make no apologies for them. They are factual and have good reasoning. If you do not agree with them, fine - that is your right - but I won't change simply for that fact.

[TheWay]

@Wolf359, if you can't see it then I feel for you because if I were told by any buisness that my complaint wasnt even worth looking into or discussing then I would be extremely upset. Because of the nature of this game I don't care as much but honestly this is unacceptable to be told what I have and yes you are a customer but when you act as a mod you are acting in the interest of me and all the other players not yourself.

I will not be discusing this issu further it is clear that you do not respect my concerns nor do you care what I think. Wether it is an issue of disagreement or pride I do not know but for now I see no reason to continue this as it will just aggravate the both of us. I do hope that Jason see's this and at least has the buisness sense to give my concern some thought.

[Wolf359]

You continue to miss the two most significant points:

Point 1: the mods collectively have not felt the issue needed to be discussed further as we do not believe it is as serious or as terrible as you claim - and if you cannot see that from the responses you have given, then that is not my fault.

Point 2: you have been repeatedly told that if you are not happy about that decision that you should contact the ombudsman and get him to look into it; yet all you do is complain that we haven't looked at your complaint further. Unlucky - it happens sometimes.

It is not a case of respect or not caring what you think - it's a case of perspective and priority - and from this perspective, it is not seen as a priority - and the fact that none of the mods see the need to discuss it further would indicate we're in agreement. Like I've said (and I've now lost count), if you do not agree, and feel you've been harshly treated, then take it to the ombudsman - none of us will actually mind if you did, and would actually prefer to see the system used properly, rather than users continually choosing to ignore the very system they wanted and argue with mods over decisions made.

I must also say that the Mods are not a customer service group for the game. Their role (and it is a purely voluntary one) is to help the forum run as smoothly as possible, and also to ensure it is a safe and amicable environment. Sometimes that will involve decisions that some people will not like, and yes, sometimes (although rarely than some people would have you think) we will get it wrong (which is why the ombudsman exists).

I for one am nowhere near being aggravated - however, I am still somewhat irked by the fact that once again, in your last post, you claim that it is unacceptable to be told what you have been told, yet you do not say why it is unacceptable (certainly not anything to counter any explanation given) and haven't even bothered to critique the responses you have been given. Nor have you been able to say why the responses, and tone of the responses, are inappropriate - as you have also claimed, and on which I commented previously.

Since you have said you do not wish to discuss this issue further, and feel that it is likely to do nothing but aggravate us, I will lock this thread - however, I will leave it open for approx 24 hours to give you a chance to respond if you so desire.

[Mordack]

Regardless of the merits of your argument, your inexplicable refusal to take this issue to the ombudsman is damaging your credibility. As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't gone through the proper channels and followed the procedure we have in place for airing grievances with the forum staff, then you don't have a leg to stand on.

[ramen07]

I will not be discusing this issu further it is clear that you do not respect my concerns nor do you care what I think. Wether it is an issue of disagreement or pride I do not know but for now I see no reason to continue this as it will just aggravate the both of us. I do hope that Jason see's this and at least has the buisness sense to give my concern some thought.

you concerns as to the "early" closing of topics have been addressed, yet you still push them. jason went on his rule of thumb and as for those that couldnt keep their naq then quite frankly, tough luck. it can be regained. the mods thought this, and as a result, locked the topic. as wolf said:

I must also say that the Mods are not a customer service group for the game. Their role (and it is a purely voluntary one) is to help the forum run as smoothly as possible, and also to ensure it is a safe and amicable environment. Sometimes that will involve decisions that some people will not like, and yes, sometimes (although rarely than some people would have you think) we will get it wrong (which is why the ombudsman exists).

you play the game, you use the forums. the mods wont tailor either of them to your liking, nor will they overturn a decision if a bunch of users deem it inappropriate for a mod to do. i for one think the mods in question made the right decision, and if stu/mystake wanted to ask more questions, the PM system on these boards work too.

[Thade]

I feel that this entire discussion could have been avoided with the following statement:

"This is not the place to discuss game complaints. Those should be taken up with the game admin through the proper email address."

[Solus]

I feel that this entire discussion could have been avoided with the following statement:

"This is not the place to discuss game complaints. Those should be taken up with the game admin through the proper email address."

And this is the greatest quote to get from a MOD! Lol.

The thread wasnt made about a complaint about the game issue, but rather the thread inwhich the game issue was being discussed in. Jeez, and I thought you all were smart enough to read before jumping to conclusions so fast...

and you dont say anything about TheWay?

REPEATEDLY his issue of Zeratul locking the thread was adressed. and Thade's comment DOES bear credibility and IS infact relevant. consider that if mystake/stu went to Admin Jason in the first place. and if TheWay went to Ombudsman Bill, this ENTIRE situation could have been avoided.

in case you missed it:

I feel that this entire discussion could have been avoided with the following statement:

"This is not the place to discuss game complaints. Those should be taken up with the game admin through the proper email address."

[Lore]

As stated previously, if you have a complaint against a mod there is a method of addressing it put in place. This method was put in place at the request of forum users. Please use the method so we can resolve the issue. If you don't wish to do so then lets please drop the issue.

As for the closing of the thread by Z, it has been deemed the correct thing to do. If you have a complaint about Z then by all means adress it properly and we will work it out.

As for the closing of the thread by Deni, it also was deemed correct as multiple threads on the same topic were not needed.

As for the orginal complaint of no PPT, as pointed out in the TOS there is not one promised.

The Way, feel free to contact me directly if you like. I am more then willing to discuss this matter directly with you.