Need Ruling on Issue

[Wepwaet]

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=136355&p=1777521#p1777521

Very shortly I will be recieving a formal warning for a bump in the above thread that was reported as spam. My initial post was removed and I recieved a verbal warning for it. I disagree with the decision to label my post as spam and have therefore reposted so that I can challenge the "official" warning and as such the initial labeling of my post.

Earendil has done an admiral job in both dealing with said post as well as responding in a timely manner to my inquiry. I'd like to note that now because its the decision that I have problems with not him.

For your convience here is a copy of my post:

Bump and lmao for "TA~ Pay Pal Pimps~" or "TA Massers", which ever Qacol perfers, not being listed as part of the family... black sheep anyone

I'd like to point out that this "case" will set a precedent however its decided and would ask for careful consideration as such.

Thank you for your time.
Respectfuly,
Wep

[Wepwaet]

Since the thread is restricted to myself, Earendil, Zeek and Mane, I'd like to request that a member of TAF(or you Mane since I think answering the question would not be a conflict of interest) confirm that TA Massers are apart of TAF and that they are not listed as such in the opening post of that thread.



Thanks,
Wep

[Manetheren]

Since the thread is restricted to myself, Earendil, Zeek and Mane, I'd like to request that a member of TAF(or you Mane since I think answering the question would not be a conflict of interest) confirm that TA Massers are apart of TAF and that they are not listed as such in the opening post of that thread.



Thanks,
Wep

They are part of the TAF but not open to outside recruitment. Thus they are not mentioned in the recruitment post.

I believe there is precedence already set for "argumentative"(for lack of a better word) posts in recruitment threads. Ill will see what I can dig up.

[zeekomkommer]

it might be a **Filtered** sometimes, but when a moderator verbaly warns you to not do something and you do it again then yes a warning should b given for that.

if you didn't agree with it you could have contacted the moderator via pm or go to the moderator feedback section or the talk to the mods section. there you could have asked why not, discuss it and perhaps get permission to post in it again.

sorry mate, we know you didn't realy had bad intentions but the ruling is consistant with the verbal warning

[Wepwaet]

No offense Zeek but you seem to have skipped over everything else and jumped straight to the warning which was at best ancillary to this thread. The goal is not to get the warning removed but to get a ruling on whether or not my post was spam and therefore whether or not it needed to be removed/given a verbal warning in the first place. In point of fact I did contact the moderator via pm, the moderator feedback section would be inappropriate as i've already stated Earendil did his job well, and the talk to the mods section would have involved too many non-required opinions.

Back to the true topic at hand, My post was labeled as "spam".
Here is a break down...
Bump (I could reference Earendil acnowleding that a bump is not spam if you like)
and lmao for (one of 2 sections left for consideration)
"TA~ Pay Pal Pimps~" or "TA Massers", which ever Qacol perfers, not being listed as part of the family...(The thread does concern TAF, which Manetherin has graciously pointed out does indeed include TA Massers. Whatever reason they were left out, the fact remains that they are omitted which this part of my post points out)
black sheep anyone (one of 2 sections left for consideration)


The only issue left is whether putting a humourous twist on either a bump, and or a on topic comment warrents the post being labeled as spam.
I also take exception to the use of the word "argumentative" Manetherin, you admit to not having a better word yet you choose one with a negative conotation towards my case as if you've already decided to rule against me... that smacks of bias when added to the "I'll see what I can dig up". I do hope you'll judge the case fairly or if you feel you have a conflict of interest respectfully ask one of the admin's to take your place. I respect you but your comment doesn't "fill" me with confidence that i'll get a fair hearing.

[Manetheren]

No offense Zeek but you seem to have skipped over everything else and jumped straight to the warning which was at best ancillary to this thread. The goal is not to get the warning removed but to get a ruling on whether or not my post was spam and therefore whether or not it needed to be removed/given a verbal warning in the first place. In point of fact I did contact the moderator via pm, the moderator feedback section would be inappropriate as i've already stated Earendil did his job well, and the talk to the mods section would have involved too many non-required opinions.

Back to the true topic at hand, My post was labeled as "spam".
Here is a break down...
Bump (I could reference Earendil acnowleding that a bump is not spam if you like)
and lmao for (one of 2 sections left for consideration)
"TA~ Pay Pal Pimps~" or "TA Massers", which ever Qacol perfers, not being listed as part of the family...(The thread does concern TAF, which Manetherin has graciously pointed out does indeed include TA Massers. Whatever reason they were left out, the fact remains that they are omitted which this part of my post points out)
black sheep anyone (one of 2 sections left for consideration)


The only issue left is whether putting a humourous twist on either a bump, and or a on topic comment warrents the post being labeled as spam.
I also take exception to the use of the word "argumentative" Manetherin, you admit to not having a better word yet you choose one with a negative conotation towards my case as if you've already decided to rule against me... that smacks of bias when added to the "I'll see what I can dig up". I do hope you'll judge the case fairly or if you feel you have a conflict of interest respectfully ask one of the admin's to take your place. I respect you but your comment doesn't "fill" me with confidence that i'll get a fair hearing.

I had asked zeek to work this case because its a conflict of interest. I said Ill see what I can dig up because I already knew of 2 instances where people spammed a recruitment thread. I used the word argumentative because your post would certainly have lead to a response. If you want to say something about what is or isnt in a recruitment thread then it needs to be taken elsewhere such as was done here: viewtopic.php?f=101&t=140401

[Wepwaet]

Its good to know that your commited enough to the job to not be afraid to step back when necessary. I respect you for that, although there is always the issue of reverse bias by Zeek... but in a non-perfect world you'll never find a perfect judge...

The issue is whether or not my post is spam and why, not the penalities imposed on those who have spammed in the past. The topic you pointed out is a discussion on the merits of the alliance with regards to recruiting and the war with NS, not an appropiate place to point out an omission in a recruitment thread. Putting my post there WOULD have been spam as it would not have added anything constructive to the topic.


I'd like to respectfully point out the rules concerning spam and then ask for a ruling on whether or not my post was spam with respect to said rules.(pertinent section has been highlighted for convience)
[spoiler]

Section 4: Spam
a. Topics.
Topics will be considered spam if they fit into one of three categories.
i) They appear in the wrong section of the board.
ii) The poster has made more topics than is reasonable for one user within the day. (For a rough guide most users won’t start more than two topics in a single forum within a day however if they are all of interest and relevant to the forum then there is some flexibility to this rule.)
iii) The topic has already been locked by a moderator and the user has reposted the topic.

Consequence:
Topics in the wrong section will generally be moved to the correct section. Users who post too many topics or repost locked topics will be given one warning point.

b. Replies
Replies will be considered spam if they do not contribute to the discussion of the topic. This may include off topic posting or an excessive number of posts that contain nothing more than emoticons or small words such as ‘lol’. While it is appropriate to indicate something is amusing, drowning out a whole thread with such posts makes it hard to follow for all users.

Consequence:
A polite note from a moderator will be issued requesting the user cut down the amount of irrelevant posts. Repeat offenders will be given one warning point.[/color]

c. Locking threads.
There are some occasions where a thread or topic breaches the spamming guidelines however not in a serious enough way to give a warning to the users. In the following cases a moderator may lock and/or move a thread.

i) Irrelevance of the topic in the section it was posted (the topic will then be moved/deleted as appropriate with an explanatory note by the mod (if moved) or the original author notified via pm (if deleted)).

ii) In cases of over spamming/large amount of off-topic posts in a reasonably short amount of time that would otherwise involve more than reasonable amounts of moderating. (The topic will be locked with an explanatory note by the mod, and a fresh topic with the same title (Part II, III, etc) created).

iii) In cases where the general discussion of the conversation has changed from it's original intent. (The topic will be locked/split with an explanatory note by the mod).

In each case of locking or moving topics, then the original author, as the topic 'owner' is the only one who should contact the mod(s) or Ombudsperson if they have an issue with the decision or to request re-opening or re-moving.
d. Image size.
Images larger than 600 pixels wide need to be posted inside of a ‘spoiler box’.

Consequence:
A mod will place your image inside a spoiler box. Repeat offenders will be given one warning point.

[/spoiler]

[Wepwaet]

Sorry for the double post;

Im really looking for a, yes you post is spam because of this___________ which violates this____________ section of the rules, or no your post is not spam because of this__________ section of the rules and therefore should not have been removed nor a verbal warning issued.



I hate to boil it down like that but yall seem to want to "link" me to other threads where my "comment" would be more appropiate in your eyes.

[Manetheren]

Sorry for the double post;

Im really looking for a, yes you post is spam because of this___________ which violates this____________ section of the rules, or no your post is not spam because of this__________ section of the rules and therefore should not have been removed nor a verbal warning issued.



I hate to boil it down like that but yall seem to want to "link" me to other threads where my "comment" would be more appropiate in your eyes.

I consider this: "lmao for "TA~ Pay Pal Pimps~" or "TA Massers", which ever Qacol perfers, not being listed as part of the family... black sheep anyone" as spam as it is not related to the purpose of the topic. That purpose being to recruit people into the topic makers alliance. Obviously the topic maker knows who is listed and who isnt in the opening post and whether or not they are "black sheep" or not is not relevant to that purpose. I view it the same as if I went into another alliances recruitment post and starting bringing up past cheaters or other aspects of their members. It has been considered spam in the past and that hasnt changed as far as I know.

[Wepwaet]

Respectfully going by the definitions in the rules section(see 2 posts up) the post is not spam. The "purpose" of the topic is not mentioned in the appropiate section of the rules. You yourself have admited that TA Massers are indeed apart of TAF which makes my post on topic as the topic is TAF related. My post falls under the section below, more specifically the last line highlighted in red. The post CLEARLY has an amused tone indicated by the "lmao" and " " at the end.

b. Replies
Replies will be considered spam if they do not contribute to the discussion of the topic. This may include off topic posting or an excessive number of posts that contain nothing more than emoticons or small words such as ‘lol’. While it is appropriate to indicate something is amusing, drowning out a whole thread with such posts makes it hard to follow for all users.

[Manetheren]

Technically if you want to go by the letter of the rules, then IMO your post does "not contribute to the discussion of the topic". The discussion of the topic is joining one of the alliances listed in the 1st post. Not who should be included in the recruitment post.

In any case the admins are reviewing the warning and Zeek or I will let you know the outcome.

[Wepwaet]

Many thanks, I look forward to the ruling.

[Manetheren]

The 3 admins agree that the warning should stand.

[Wepwaet]

Where exactly do I post to request from the admins how exactly my post breaks the stated spam rules... or better yet why sections of said rules are being ignored?

[Manetheren]

http://herebegames.com/StarGateWarsNew/viewforum.php?f=128

Or you can pm the 3 admins directly.