Q to Forum aka Jason re ombusman position

[ƒëmmë ƒatalë]

Jason, as you should be aware the position of Ombusperson has been announced and several candidates have put their name forth to take the position.

As a regular forum user what worries and concerns me, is that the position seems to be a hollow one.

I have looked at what powers the Ombusperson is being allowed to have and what ppl applying for the position have to agree to.

Seems to me, they are having their hands tied for them before they even start.

The voice of the average forum user is being eroded, and I don't see anything being given to Ombusperson to empower us.

Perhaps you could appoint someone neutral from outside of game to hold the position. Who answers only to you and doesnt have their role dictated by the very ppl they are meant to police on behalf of the forum users.

[Guild]

you chose not to pm .....?

[caesar2]

this is maybe better place to talk with Jason. if he will read it

Also, i fully agree with feme. Since mbudsman position was create, it never realy helped how it should. Cuse person, or alowed actions, etc.

Maybe, realy not a player could do this function? i perosnaly had issues with half of ombudsmans, once my topics were closed there and no answer given. Right now Dr. House locked my topic and dont want to talk. Even if he knowshes not right, well... at least, he dont want to listen and to discus. And I never saw Mordack replying, and tryed PM as well.

Ombudsman could be person not from GW.

[Clarkey]

Jason, as you should be aware the position of Ombusperson has been announced and several candidates have put their name forth to take the position.

As a regular forum user what worries and concerns me, is that the position seems to be a hollow one.

I have looked at what powers the Ombusperson is being allowed to have and what ppl applying for the position have to agree to.

I actually have to disagree with this. I'll explain my reasons.

The Ombudsperson and Understudy are to be mediators in "warning" disputes between users and staff. They are not there for any other reason.

The mediation should really only begin once the user has (and has proven) they have gone through the appropriate communications with the Mod, GM and/or Admins to try and resolve the issue.

The Ombudsperson has access to speak to all involved, has access to user notes (i believe), which is very important, and has access to private sections such as the dump to view posts if they have been moved.

The physical powers the Ombudsperson has are to edit/lock threads in the Ombudsman section and to deal with reports submitted by users.

The Ombudsman can only base their opinion on the information given to them and then provide the admins with their "recommendation".

The Ombudsman does not and should not have the power to overturn a warning. With all that said, i myself am not sure what you expect the Ombudsman to be able to do that they don't do already?

Your comment about Jason perhaps appointing someone neutral outside of SGW to take on the role can only suggest that your issue is with 'bias-ism'. I say that because I cannot see any other reason why you would suggest an external appointee.

Also, one should not think that the Ombudsperson is solely there for the users. They are not. They are their to be a mediator in situations of complaints. They will not automatically agree and side with the user, and they will not only speak onbehalf of a user. They work alone to help both 'parties'.

[renegadze]

http://talk.gatewa.rs/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=138030

That is what the Oms is/does and has always been/does.

Each 'term' the elected Oms provides their own small/minor flavor on the position that they feel will help things move along well.

The Oms is only a mediator. They never have and should never be a 'Knight in shining armor' for the disillusioned minority who thinks that what they should be. They are a voice to the Administrators about issues that can not be resolved by going to a section mod or a section head.

"Authority
The Ombudsman, supported by Forum Admins, is granted the powers to fully investigate any relevant issues in a complaint.

It says supported by Forum Admins...not dictated to by.....if you truely think the role is the same as it has always been...trying speaking to the person who wrote that very post you linked and see if they agree!!

[Empy]

http://talk.gatewa.rs/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=138030

That is what the Oms is/does and has always been/does.

Each 'term' the elected Oms provides their own small/minor flavor on the position that they feel will help things move along well.

The Oms is only a mediator. They never have and should never be a 'Knight in shining armor' for the disillusioned minority who thinks that what they should be. They are a voice to the Administrators about issues that can not be resolved by going to a section mod or a section head.

"Authority
The Ombudsman, supported by Forum Admins, is granted the powers to fully investigate any relevant issues in a complaint.

It says supported by Forum Admins...not dictated to by.....if you truely think the role is the same as it has always been...trying speaking to the person who wrote that very post you linked and see if they agree!!

What do the Forum Admins dictate to the Ombudsman?

[Jack]

First off, the idea that the admins are dictating anything to me is simply hilarious. Ask them what happens when they try to force me to do something I don't wanna.

"Authority
The Ombudsman, supported by Forum Admins, is granted the powers to fully investigate any relevant issues in a complaint.

It says supported by Forum Admins...not dictated to by.....if you truely think the role is the same as it has always been...trying speaking to the person who wrote that very post you linked and see if they agree!!

I am one of the first Ombudsmen, EVER. I was there when the role was created, I was there in the meetings that discussed the purpose of the Ombudsman. I know more than almost every other person what role the Ombudsman plays on the forums. And quite frankly, it is that of... and this is going to come as a shock to you... an ombudsman.
ombudsman (ˈɒmbʊdzmən) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— n , pl -men
1. a commissioner who acts as independent referee between individual citizens and their government or its administration
2. See also Financial Ombudsman Commissioner for Local Administration , Health Service Commissioner , Formal names: Parliamentary Commissioner (in Britain) an official, without power of sanction or mechanism of appeal, who investigates complaints of maladministration by members of the public against national or local government or its servants

The Ombudsperson and Understudy are to be mediators in "warning" disputes between users and staff. They are not there for any other reason.

I disagree with the part in red. The ombudsman is tasked largely with representing the users, including, though not limited to, disputes such as warnings. But again, it's not limited to just that. Anytime a user feels that he is being ignored, he should be and as long as I am oms is, free to contact the oms and request that he or she represent the user's interests before the mods/admins. Though it should be obvious that if an issue has been beat to death the oms will likely deny the request without a compelling argument as to why he/she should grant it.

[KnowLedge]

As a user who has contact the ombudsman on a number of occasions, I do believe they get the job done. I use ombudsmen service when (A)a mod ignores me, (B) when a mod does not reply, or (C) when a mod gets overly cocky with their power and forgets their job. Those are the 3 reasons I have had to contact the ombudsmen, and usually the ombudsman gets my job done within a certain amount of time.

[Clarkey]

The Ombudsperson and Understudy are to be mediators in "warning" disputes between users and staff. They are not there for any other reason.

I disagree with the part in red. The ombudsman is tasked largely with representing the users, including, though not limited to, disputes such as warnings. But again, it's not limited to just that. Anytime a user feels that he is being ignored, he should be and as long as I am oms is, free to contact the oms and request that he or she represent the user's interests before the mods/admins. Though it should be obvious that if an issue has been beat to death the oms will likely deny the request without a compelling argument as to why he/she should grant it.

The reason I said that is because there have been a lot of occasions with users where they have brought an issue to the Ombudsman (not sure of which office it was) and because it was not related to the user receiving a warning that it is not an Ombudsman issue. I have seen that many times before.

[Solus]

Ironic that jack among others referred to the ombudsman role as a "vox populi" aka "voice of the people".

Often quoted as, Vox populi, vox dei (/ˈvɒks ˈpɒpjəlaɪ ˈvɒks ˈdeɪ.aɪ/), "The voice of the people [is] the voice of God", is an old proverb often erroneously attributed to William of Malmesbury in the twelfth century.[2]

Another early reference to the expression is in a letter from Alcuin to Charlemagne in 798, although it is believed to have been in earlier use.[3] The full quotation from Alcuin reads:
Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit.[4]

English translation:
And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_populi


the ombudsman does NOT dictate to the administrators, never has. as has been said MANY times, the ombudsman will represent users issues to the administration, issues, proposals or otherwise that the administrators can look into IN THEIR OWN TIME/AT THEIR LEISURE.

the only "ombudsman" who tried to dictate to the administration was Ero'sore. he didn't last 24 hours.

learning something?

~soul

[Clarkey]

the ombudsman does NOT dictate to the administrators, never has. as has been said MANY times, the ombudsman will represent users issues to the administration, issues, proposals or otherwise that the administrators can look into IN THEIR OWN TIME/AT THEIR LEISURE.

the only "ombudsman" who tried to dictate to the administration was Ero'sore. he didn't last 24 hours.

learning something?

~soul

Who actually said the ombudsman dictates to the administrators?

[knight]

the ombudsman does NOT dictate to the administrators, never has. as has been said MANY times, the ombudsman will represent users issues to the administration, issues, proposals or otherwise that the administrators can look into IN THEIR OWN TIME/AT THEIR LEISURE.

the only "ombudsman" who tried to dictate to the administration was Ero'sore. he didn't last 24 hours.

learning something?

~soul

Who actually said the ombudsman dictates to the administrators?

Ero'sore, or can you not read?

[Empy]

the ombudsman does NOT dictate to the administrators, never has. as has been said MANY times, the ombudsman will represent users issues to the administration, issues, proposals or otherwise that the administrators can look into IN THEIR OWN TIME/AT THEIR LEISURE.

the only "ombudsman" who tried to dictate to the administration was Ero'sore. he didn't last 24 hours.

learning something?

~soul

Who actually said the ombudsman dictates to the administrators?

Ero'sore, or can you not read?

I'm fairly sure he meant, recently ... at least I would assume.

[Clarkey]

the ombudsman does NOT dictate to the administrators, never has. as has been said MANY times, the ombudsman will represent users issues to the administration, issues, proposals or otherwise that the administrators can look into IN THEIR OWN TIME/AT THEIR LEISURE.

the only "ombudsman" who tried to dictate to the administration was Ero'sore. he didn't last 24 hours.

learning something?

~soul

Who actually said the ombudsman dictates to the administrators?

Ero'sore, or can you not read?

I'm fairly sure he meant, recently ... at least I would assume.

You are right Ĕɱƿŷ I meant recently, as in this thread. That is what it looked like Solus was referring to. Purely based on the fact that Solus made the statement:

the ombudsman does NOT dictate to the administrators, never has. as has been said MANY times, the ombudsman will represent users issues to the administration, issues, proposals or otherwise that the administrators can look into IN THEIR OWN TIME/AT THEIR LEISURE.

Which he said BEFORE saying:

the only "ombudsman" who tried to dictate to the administration was Ero'sore. he didn't last 24 hours.

So yes Knight i can read, but thank you for the rather rude response, not sure if it is expected of a GM, i'm sure it's not, especially considering my post was not at all rude but was an honest question.

[knight]

So yes Knight i can read, but thank you for the rather rude response, not sure if it is expected of a GM, i'm sure it's not, especially considering my post was not at all rude but was an honest question.

If you can read then you would have known that no one said it in this thread.

Or were you just trying to point out misinformation?

Who said the sky is orange?

See, I can do it too.