Russia, what kind of regime is it?

[Legendary Apophis]

This afternoon I decided to make a list with democracies, dictatorships and the ones +/- inbetween for another forums I am member of. Came to me the question regarding Russia's case. I know it's a federal republic. It doesn't answer my question though.

Is Russia a democracy? A dictatorship? Neither? A bit of both?

I would like to know your opinions/arguments. It's one of the most complicated nations to determine regime in the world I think.

[KnowLedge]

is it not a democracy now?

[Legendary Apophis]

is it not a democracy now?

Theoretically and practically since Boris Yeltsin became president of Russian federation, yes. However, some concerns are apparently raised regarding the reality of having indeed different parties being able to run equally in main elections of Russia (presidential elections for example). I don't consider it a between-democracy-and-dictatorship regime like many central Asia and few eastern Asia regimes are (Laos, Vietnam): because there are different parties, president changes during presidential elections, various kind of elections in Russia...
That's why I'm looking for people's opinions/arguments about Russia.

[RepliMagni]

Something I posted in here a while ago:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8709517.stm

[Lithium]

ita a totalitarian regime, just a bit different from US fake democracy

[[KMA]Avenger]

Russia's prime minister, Vladimir Putin, admitted that his government had lost of the trust of its people and pledged to introduce what he called "direct democracy" to refresh it, when he is returned for a third presidential term next March.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/no ... lost-trust


Direct democracy was first coined by Gerald Celente, Celente even has a website called http://directdemocracynow.com/

Putin has ripped off Celente, but that's NOT my point here, the point is this...if Putin is sincere then Russia IS a democracy. if he is just pandering to the masses then Russia is no better than the EU, UK or US.

As for what i think about Russia, i don't know tbh, so i will wait and reserve judgement.




PS, "direct democracy" means, letting the people vote on everything....in short, putting the power back into the hands of the people.

[RepliMagni]

PS, "direct democracy" means, letting the people vote on everything....in short, putting the power back into the hands of the people.

Which would be completely stupid - people neither have the time nor the knowledge nor the skills to understand enough about all aspects of society to make informed decisions - heck, I'm a PhD socio-economic historian and I don't know enough about economics to make a fully informed decision about the current economic crisis, let alone all the other aspects of governance. The whole point of a democracy is to give those powers to people we trust to make the right decisions we want based on their policies....whether or not there is a disconnect between those policies and "trust" is another matter entirely....

[Legendary Apophis]

PS, "direct democracy" means, letting the people vote on everything....in short, putting the power back into the hands of the people.

Which would be completely stupid - people neither have the time nor the knowledge nor the skills to understand enough about all aspects of society to make informed decisions - heck, I'm a PhD socio-economic historian and I don't know enough about economics to make a fully informed decision about the current economic crisis, let alone all the other aspects of governance. The whole point of a democracy is to give those powers to people we trust to make the right decisions we want based on their policies....whether or not there is a disconnect between those policies and "trust" is another matter entirely....

Some still view ancient Athens democracy as the ideal type of regime, that's why it's seen as a dream for some.
Some say that's how Switzerland operates, while in reality, it's only partially a direct democracy, such as extra proposition of laws which are sort of large scale petitions. Switzerland isn't a supersized neo Athens.

[Ashu]

I believe it's trying to be a democracy while staying away from the stale and corrupt capitalist doctrice while engaging in power plays, consolidating it's position.

[[KMA]Avenger]

PS, "direct democracy" means, letting the people vote on everything....in short, putting the power back into the hands of the people.

Which would be completely stupid - people neither have the time nor the knowledge nor the skills to understand enough about all aspects of society to make informed decisions

While i agree that the general populace are extremely ignorant about many things, you can't say sweeping statements that the "people neither have the time nor the knowledge nor the skills to understand enough about all aspects of society to make informed decisions". people don't need to be informed about every little detail about everything they need to vote on. in practice, people who want to vote on say an economic issue will "in most cases" ask others or look up what they need to know to make an informed decision. after all, wanting to vote on say an up coming economic issue such as say- bailouts - people will talk, talking encourages people to seek information. when you strip people of the right to make an informed or even an uninformed decision you encourage people to shrug their shoulders and say "what's the point in even talking about it since i can't change things!?" which was the case with me on more times than i care to recall.
i know people-VERY successful people who were dead against the bailouts. they had no idea why they didn't like it and when i explained it to them and tried to give them the information to look and decide for themselves if the information was credible i got a standard response "why tell me, i can't change things!".
That attitude of apathy would change IF people had a voice.

- heck, I'm a PhD socio-economic historian and I don't know enough about economics to make a fully informed decision about the current economic crisis, let alone all the other aspects of governance.

Who says you have to be an economic expert, a geopolitical expert and any other kind of expert allrolledinto1 just to vote on an issue you have a POV on or passion for?

The whole point of a democracy is to give those powers to people we trust to make the right decisions we want based on their policies....

The whole point of a democracy and most other types of governance is to have a Govt do things for you and wipe your runny nose...isn't it time people grew up and stopped expecting so much from their Govt?
Most things can be run better by a truly free market than Govt EVER can or will.

For me, Govt means 1, bureaucrats, police, Govt and public SERVANTS-NOT officials- and the courts have no business or authority in how i live my life so long as i do no harm.
2, Govt takes care of the resources which are owned by the people, not private corporations.
3, that Govt regulates the flow of currency and the value thereof.
4, That Govt maintains a secure boarder and has STRICT migration and asylum laws.
5, That Govt maintains a fair taxation system agreed by an informed public.
6, ALL public servants in Govt come from the middle and working class...NOT career politicians who leave schools they ALL attend together, who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag and are not able to wipe their own backsides without getting any on their hands!
7, That Govt guarantees the rights and freedoms of the people AFTER the people have decided what those rights and freedoms are. again, informed debates and decision making is essential here, and NOT by Govt, but by the people.

Feel free to discuss this convo in a new thread.

whether or not there is a disconnect between those policies and "trust" is another matter entirely....

Again, feel free to make a new topic

[Juliette]

Some still view ancient Athens democracy as the ideal type of regime, that's why it's seen as a dream for some.

Athens had slaves. I like that. They made it possible for actual citizens to partake of democracy.


Anyway. Russia is cool. I love Putin. Some nations need a strict guiding hand. Putin gives stability and direction. I Putin. (Yes, that is twice.)

[Lithium]

Some still view ancient Athens democracy as the ideal type of regime, that's why it's seen as a dream for some.

Athens had slaves. I like that. They made it possible for actual citizens to partake of democracy.


Anyway. Russia is cool. I love Putin. Some nations need a strict guiding hand. Putin gives stability and direction. I Putin. (Yes, that is twice.)

both commie and demos have same roots from one doctrine. its just the ppl who were in command that grew mean and we have what we have. both are utopias and as for today we have sys commie-dict and sys domo-corrupt.

[Legendary Apophis]

Sorry article is not in english but I found it interesting, it's about the recent elections in Russia and the fact russian election observers witnessed many irregularities:

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/monde/20 ... ruque.html (interesting for the videos posted mentioned in the present article)

Translation by reverso.net

While OSCE, observer of the legislative Russians of December 4th, advanced " frequent violations of the procedure " during the vote count, the examples of frauds accumulate, denounced(cancelled) by the activists, independent journalists and civic observers who had spread(displayed,deployed) on the ground to be the witnesses(batons) of the irregularity of the ballot.

" I was all day in various polling stations of Moscow with a civic observer yesterday, we spoke with spot people and they confirmed us numerous frauds ", shows the correspondent of " New Times " Zoya Svetova. Young people of the party Close(Plain) Russia, "the" Nachi ", were brought by the province to Moscow to vote. We had supplied them polling cards. They were tens to queue up to vote and we authorized them to put several bulletins in the urn(ballot box) ", shows this committed(hired) journalist. And it is only an example of manipulation of the ballot among so many others...

Several observers were able to film blatant irregularities, as here or we prove to a helper that the ink of pens proposed to mark the bulletin is erasable and does not guarantee the vote:

Or as that one, who(which) finds in the urn(ballot box) that we have just emptied for the counting a heap assembled by bulletins, all for close(plain) Russia, but that nobody becomes alarmed in the idea that they were slid by a single hand in the urn(ballot box), what is impossible legally:


" They paid people to slide several bulletins in urns(ballot boxes). It is the system known well by the " carousel(merry-go-round) " where people have a polling card with which they are going to vote in several polling stations. And with the stations of temporary vote, we can slide even more easily its bulletin in the urn(ballot box) of several offices(desks), whether it is in stations, in tourist stations(resorts) in the campaign(countryside) " tells Zoya Svetova.

Stuffing of urns(ballot boxes)

" I belonged to Vladimir, to approximately 110 km from Moscow, on Monday, when the local authorities organized polling stations in centers of rest, far from cities, difficult to access for the observers. Golden, certain made the travel(movement) and were able to noticed that polling stations, opened at 10:30 am already had full urns(ballot boxes). When they questioned the director(manager) of the polling station, this one then claimed that there had been already 3000 voters and that the office(desk) had opened at 7:30 am. But of course it was impossible to him(her) to supply the registers of vote to guarantee its comment ", explains the journalist of "New Times".

There were several other similar cases in the other similar places among which some people were able to be advanced by activists on the Internet. The authorities used these polling stations which they call complementary(additional) to cheat in any discretion: at this time of year, these places are deserted as a rule(in principle). " Everything was forged ", Zoya Svetova denounces(cancels).

Videos alignments(on-line publishing)

If the Russians are used to hear about frauds during the elections in the country, they are not on the other hand direct witnesses of the unrefined trickeries used(employed) by the power. Now, the big novelty of this ballot is the alignment(on-line publishing) of videos turned(shot) in polling stations by the voluntary civic observers. Hackers that has respect paid by the power attacked(affected) on Saturday the sites of independent media such as "New Times" or " Echo of Moscow " or still of institutes of defense of the freedom of speech as Golos. These sites, which re-worked for the majority on Monday afternoon, had indeed encouraged the observers to send them as fast as possible their testimony if they noticed frauds.

Far from giving up the publication of their testimonies in front of the scale of the phenomenon, the observers, scandalized by the conditions of vote, published their videos on YouTube then Facebook or to twitter, as this one where we can see a member(limb) of the polling station marking quietly bulletins before being surprised by an observer:


" People were very mobilized for raising(finding) the frauds ", underlines Zoya Svetova. " They were not so passive as four years ago. They have enough frauds of it and enough Close(Plain) Russia. The problem is that there is really no opposition. The voters voted for the communists and for just Russia. But it does not mean that they support these parties. It is a protest vote against close(plain) Russia which they made. Because, in our legislation, if you vote for white, your vote is supposed to be for the party which arrived in head... "

Doomed to failure appeals(recourses)

And the appeals(recourses) are doomed to failure. In a country where the justice rarely shows independence in front of power, the complaints of the parties in front of the courts have only not enough luck(chance) to succeed. Certainly, it is the first time when videos showing flagrante delictos of corruption, stuffing of urns(ballot boxes), multiple votes are going to be able to be joined(contacted) to files, but the hope to see cancelled ballots is very low(weak). " The proofs of the scale of the fraud were able to go out ", underlines Zoya Svetova. " But we have no independent justice in Russia. The authorities are doubtless going to recognize some frauds here or there but it will not change the final outcome(exit) of the vote ".

" The problem of close(plain) Russia ", underlines the journalist, " it is that we cannot cheat eternally ". While the presidential elections are in three months, which we can expect? Is the legislative ballot going to teach a lesson to Vladimir Putin? To bring more respect for the electoral law or to by-pass her(it) on the contrary more discreetly? Difficult to establish a forecast at this stage(stadium). But the leaders of close(plain) Russia have it seems was afraid of not obtaining the wished result(profit). " If they obtain around the 55 % officially ", underlines Zoya Svoboda " it is that they obtained in reality around 25 % of the votes and they know him(it) very well " calculate this informed observer. " In front of this situation, I am afraid that they take abrupt positions. We go towards elections to a totalitarian climate. People hate more and more Putin and close(plain) Russia and I am afraid that the future president produces them by brutalities. "

[Juliette]

Your translation is both slanderous and disgustingly bad.
Terrible, terrible, terrible. It makes as little factual sense in French as it does in English.


It is true, there was fraud and violence, and the name of United Russia came on people's lips a lot. Why? I will explain. Communists hired people to walk around very visibly in front of journalists with fraudulent ballots. Do you know that the fraudulent ballots were used as campaigning material by the Communists? I bet you did not. They had them printed and ready at their last convention; they waved them around and said "here, if you do not vote, you vote United Russia". This was weeks before the election. And you think that it was actually United Russia who committed fraud? Haha. We do not need fraud. What we needed was everyone voting; but those people who were sitting in their houses the economic upturn my father brought about bought them did not go to the polling station on account of the weather. Only the dedicated United Russia people came to vote, and the people who are upset. Upset people in Russia amount to about 30% of the population. You can tell them apart by their violent eyes and their angry attitude. Also, when more than three of them gather, they will start rioting. Or drinking. This is how pathetic they are; it also explains why they are so angry at the success of mother Russia. I would call these instigators of violence 'non-Russians'.

OSCE believes it when they see staged fraud, they can be fooled. Also, there is a conflict of interest, since OSCE is meant to keep the peace in Kosovo, and Russia makes sure our Slavic brothers are kept safe.
Ask the Israeli who were invited, the Chinese, the Indians. The only ones who believe that there is an undemocratic activity around the elections is the European and American delegation. These people should turn to their own countries. America should look at the way they handle these OWS demonstrations and the general public discontent, and should scratch their heads wondering why no one has decided to bomb them yet; like they do to Syria and Libya who do the exact same things. Terror and violence against their own population. As for the European delegation; go home. Sit behind your Anti Missile Defence, if you must. Watch as your whole world crumbles. But by all means, you are welcome to come to Russia and criticise the only European nation that is still standing strong in the midst of economic crisis and mayhem.

[Legendary Apophis]

Your translation is both slanderous and disgustingly bad.
Terrible, terrible, terrible. It makes as little factual sense in French as it does in English.

My "translation" isn't mine, it's by the site reverso.net . Also, love or hate the way it was worded, this is from a (yes, left wing) newspaper not an amateur blog, sure it's not really one newspaper I usually read, but well the reason I posted it, is due to videos linked.

As for this or that party having cheated in elections, well, I am in doubt that communist party still has such a big importance, influence to be able to cause frauds like this, in such an -apparent- large scale. I think frauds in elections are most likely used to try to win a vote while you aren't so sure to win (incertainty). Now the fact the cases of frauds were filmed is already a step towards progress. I think it's still too early to state on the matter, but I'm sure as time goes it will be clearer. It seemed to me that Russian independent observers witnessed and filmed these videos, not Europeans/Americans.

However, the fact independent sites were hacked due to their stance/advise on this election ongoing/outcome is something that caught my attention.