Reduce the value of APP, and remove the time constraint.

[Clockwork]

A suggest a reduction in the value of APP, by at least 50% of its current 'value'. At the same time, a removal of the 5 month, time constraint currently imposed by the conversion process to offset somewhat the reduced value.

I don't imagine this will be a popular suggestion for those currently taking advantage of the 99T LF conversion

At the moment you can create, via APP to LF conversions a very strong ascended account without actually playing on the ascended server at all. This can't be right, we should be encouraging participation on the server, rather that just giving ascenders an easy option to protect their main accounts by getting to a difficult / impossible to decend position without playing on the server.

Anyway, the suggestion is made, comments, agreements, arguments against are all welcome.

[EbilCC]

agreed

im glad i started a suggestion bonzasa

[Loki™]

The value is way too high atm.

[Juliette]

Oh, dream on, cheapskate Unknowns who mucked up their ascension process.


APP are worth what we pay for them. Right now, it is still cheaper to buy DMU for Naquadah than it is to convert APP to LF. So no. There is no economical reason to change it. (Except the emotional one: "OMG they will catch up to me who ascended so cheaply". Jealousy is not a good reason for change.)

[Xiaoli]

I see 3 Unknown accounts, who most likely speeded their ascension to gain the main bonusses, and getting completely trashed in ascended by people who take their time.

If you think that 99trill ascensions are so great and ofcourse super easy, i would suggest drop your ascended tag, and do it 23 times. Imaging the ascended account you will have.
Besides the sarcasm, 99 trill ascensions are very very costly, doing multiple of them would cost any normal player (Not you Loki) months of preparation.
Not to mention they don't give anyone the option to gain a super ascended account if you would never actually play there, since 99 trill is not that much anyway to spend.

Without farming you won't get a super ascended account.

[Clockwork]

Oh, dream on, cheapskate Unknowns who mucked up their ascension process.


APP are worth what we pay for them. Right now, it is still cheaper to buy DMU for Naquadah than it is to convert APP to LF. So no. There is no economical reason to change it. (Except the emotional one: "OMG they will catch up to me who ascended so cheaply". Jealousy is not a good reason for change.)

I was rather hoping for more of an argument rather than an accusation of being a cheapskate or Jealous, especially from somebody who represents one of the game servers and should be behind promoting 'play'.

To cover your points Juliette, while I was ascending the conversion ratio for APP to LF was almost nothing, not that it really matters, I am quite happy with where I have taken my account via play.

I mentioned nothing about an economical reason the for the change, so I dont know why you focused your reply on that. If you want to trade NAQ for DMU, go right ahead In another thread (which i might look for later), I have already mentioned that purely using the APP to TURN conversion you can farm around ~70trill LF in a 5 month period, and thats only using ~300b DMU hits.

My suggestion is based purely around getting more people to actively 'play' the ascended server, rather than login every X weeks to convert APP to LF and boost thier account. If I was suggesting the idea just to mess with people ascending, then I would not have included removing the time limit between conversion, rather I would have suggested the option be removed alltogether in favour of ability buffs such as the 'double strike' stuff we have on the main server. (Jealousy is not a good reason for change, true, but the same can be said for arguing against change for personal gain)

I see 3 Unknown accounts, who most likely speeded their ascension to gain the main bonusses, and getting completely trashed in ascended by people who take their time.

Speaking personaly, I think it took me around 3.5 years to ascend to Unknown, not really 'rushing', and as I have mentioned above, the conversion rate for APP to LF was not really an issue back then. As for being 'trashed' by people who take their time, I am not sure what you are refering to

I know exactly how much it 'costs' to get ~96 Trill LF from the APP conversion, while it requires a reasonable amount of effort (if your not a paypal pimp) to gather the resources on main, it's not a 'huge' effort.

Anyway, you both seem to think my suggestion is an attack on ascenders rather than an idea to promote actual 'play' on the ascended server. Perhaps the following alteration to my original suggestion would alleviate that concern.

Maintain the current APP to LF conversion ration, remove the current time limit between conversion, but introduce a minimum number of 'TURNS' to be used between conversions, based on the amount of APP converted. Say 10 - 20k Turns used OR 6 months if you fail to use the turns. (exact scale of turns / app to be discussed)

Discuss

[Sol]

My suggestion is based purely around getting more people to actively 'play' the ascended server, rather than login every X weeks to convert APP to LF and boost thier account.

Maintain the current APP to LF conversion ration, remove the current time limit between conversion, but introduce a minimum number of 'TURNS' to be used between conversions, based on the amount of APP converted. Say 10 - 20k Turns used OR 6 months if you fail to use the turns. (exact scale of turns / app to be discussed)
Discuss

Doesn't that completely defeat what you wanted to do?

lemme splain a bit.
APP was increased and we all know why.
APP has a cap for two reason,
1. When the increase was introduced I didn't want people who had stacks of app getting stacks of LF in one steroid/adrenaline shot directly injected into the eyeball. It was for more of a 'slow release fertilizer'.
2. To make people think twice about ascending big (which it has done exactly).

Unfortunately there will always be people who will ascend big for the app, unless I make it useless again. Reducing it by 50% will inevitably do nothing, removing the cap along with that will make the situation dire.

The increased APP allows the honest farmers to bring value to their honest hours they have spent on their account, as Juliette showed it is still more or less under the equilibrium though. But it is still something.
The cap provides the soft boundary for those who decided to go for 2. it just so happens the bulk would be people who have not farmed their way up there.

There is of course the quick alternative of altering the caps scale, but holding the ratio steady.
e.g 50 trill per 2.5 months (10 ish weeks) or 20 t per 4 weeks (per 1 month). This will of course mean more people would be effected by the soft cap, but everything will still remains true.

I don't believe APP should be a main source of LF, I think it should be one of those side things you keep in the back of your mind to do, like using up all the MT's on main.
Just my thoughts anyway, if you have alternatives that would work just as effectively then speak!
(Also for that recent suggestion clockwork, above, about using turns, that would mean I would have to increase the turn holdings for everyone, which I think what we have now is quite enough)

[Clockwork]

No, I probably just didnt explain the turns bit very well

Let me try again. I don't mean that the 10-20k turns are used during the conversion process itself (so no need to increase everybody's turn holdings), I meant that to be able to convert APP to LF, you would have to have used (during normal gameplay) 10-20k turns since the last time you converted APP to LF.

So as an example.

I convert my APP into say 10trill life force. I ascend on main, and get a fresh bunch of APP to spend on ascended, but before I can convert that APP into LF, I need to use X number of turns on ascended. This I think would promote active ascenders to actually 'play' on the ascended server, rather than just boosting between ascensions.

The amount of turns required between conversions would depend on the amount of APP converted into LF, so say 10t LF needs 5k turns used, 30t LF needs 10k turns or something. The ratio of LF to turns could be whatever, the values I used were just examples. Include a fallback time element as a choice, so you can either actively play on the ascended server (using turns), or wait 6 months between any and all APP -> LF conversions (regardless of value).

[SVaRuN]

Since turns generate 11 per turn


You know that would be effectively the same thing as saying. Hey you ascended. You cant use that LF

No sir, wait up untill you generate thousands of ATs lol



Everyone knows the rules. They have been here for long time now, meaning people adjust their strategy accordingly. You cant now just take it away. Like ok fine you did 5 big ascensions, but for the rest of you no more, here is the middle finger, if you have planned and are on your way to do it on main as well.


the rules are known for a long time. They should stay, or this is not about equal options people have.
It would be like saying. Wow... amounts of DMU that are out right now are gigantic, this is really an overkill! Reduce this SoL because some people have it too easy...
And than new ascended players would come in and what...
Some guys were farming that DMU like no tomorrow have gained and the new guys are now handicapped?


I am a law school student, the way I see this stuff is really simple. You cant just take away stuff without thinking about the equality or balance if you prefer.


What you are suggesting is effectively eliminating anyone new who wants to catch up in ascended.
And there should always be an option of people investing hard and gaining exactly that, an option to catch up.







There is one option though. To enable people who have finished their ascensions to ascend again if they wish to (but without the boost to their account)
That one would be fair, if you want to risk your main account stats and progress to ascend, go ahead... cause you do know, everyone who is doing these so called ascension is doing exactly that right?
Investing huge amounts of NAQ into ascensions so in order for him to get better in ascended he is willing to let his main suffer....

[Clockwork]

Nothing would stop you spending the 18k app to get turns every 2.5 weeks between ascensions, so your not limited to the slow turn generation.

[Loki™]

I see 3 Unknown accounts, who most likely speeded their ascension to gain the main bonusses, and getting completely trashed in ascended by people who take their time.

If you think that 99trill ascensions are so great and ofcourse super easy, i would suggest drop your ascended tag, and do it 23 times. Imaging the ascended account you will have.
Besides the sarcasm, 99 trill ascensions are very very costly, doing multiple of them would cost any normal player (Not you Loki) months of preparation.
Not to mention they don't give anyone the option to gain a super ascended account if you would never actually play there, since 99 trill is not that much anyway to spend.

Without farming you won't get a super ascended account.

This is goo to hear. I'm a total nub at ascended so I just heard 99t ascensions and went WTH.

[SVaRuN]

Clock, you dont convert 18k of APP


You cant choose the amount. You have to convert them all. So someone who would have ton of APPs to convert to LF...

He would go and use it for 4k ATs? heh Well that should be funny

[Clockwork]

Clock, you dont convert 18k of APP


You cant choose the amount. You have to convert them all. So someone who would have ton of APPs to convert to LF...

He would go and use it for 4k ATs? heh Well that should be funny

I assumed that with the suggested change, the majority of the app if not all, would have been converted to LF, then 2 weeks later, what's left (or the 18k you generate) would be converted into turns. You could continue the turn conversion until you ascended again refilling your APP.

Anyway, mearly a suggestion

[Sol]

No, I probably just didnt explain the turns bit very well

Let me try again. I don't mean that the 10-20k turns are used during the conversion process itself (so no need to increase everybody's turn holdings), I meant that to be able to convert APP to LF, you would have to have used (during normal gameplay) 10-20k turns since the last time you converted APP to LF.

Unfortunately that makes the situation worse for people that can't really afford to pour money into their main to ascend, and those that can't ascend further. This somewhat falls into the first point of the APP cap. It allows the rest of the server to farm and attempt to keep up.

[Sol]

Thought of another possible option;

We can keep the current conversion rate and remove the time constraint, but put in an automatic feed that converts x APP to y LF every turn change, the feed can be stopped or started by the user and is scaled to the basic size of an account.

So a user who has just started may get only say 100,000 LF per day (which is pretty damn large), and an accomplished user may get 1 trill per day (basically 3.5 months for 100 trill), until all of their APP is used up, or they stop the feed (just in case they want to convert turns).

The auto feed means people won't have to worry about when to convert next, it also allows direct moderation and scale of how much people get, i.e new accounts can't be jacked up extremely fast through ascensions and people get a continuous stream without having to worry about waiting 5 months, although it does mean people will think twice about ascending hugely, which is good, since that is exactly what I was after .

The other alternative is to start the APP to LF conversion fast and then bring it slower, so if you have 120 trill LF to possibly convert to, it may start at say 10 trill per day, then goes lower the next day and so on. Think of it as like how the CER works....but different. The fall will be slower to start with.
This will be of course scaled like above.