Calculations

[High Empty]

well lets see

Defenses against my planets

Tactic 1, Mathlord uses it alot, Sab my weapons out and then mass my spies. ( just logged in, and ~coyle had just used it too)
Tactic 2, BUILD a defense not a token defense.
10 attack planets currently give me 15 tril strike for the cost of a 3 tril strike so that's a 18 tril strike at Peak efficiency.
Current attack limits (That keep changing btw in case you haven't notice cause i have) would allow that a
18 tril strike doubles to a 36 tril strike and then a 13 tril MS adds that to a 49 tril Max strike as a BEST case.

so, that being said 49 tril/ 0.30= 160 tril defense could be taken down, by taken down i mean that you could damage it. Now having said that it means the defenders MS has to be OUT, and the account has to be descended. Otherwise you will lose 19 out 20 of the battles without even damaging the defense hitting your head off a brick wall, yeah at some point you'll get through the wall, but you won't have much of a head left.
But what i'm trying to say if your defenses are as high as that that planets like mine mean Nothing!
So the answer is to build BIG defense and your ok, then i have to build up to take you down.
Now for the record Double strike does help. It means my 3 tril Raw strike needs to be (1.5 tril raw) that's it so it changes my peak effective strike from 18 tril to 16.5 tril.

Tactic 3
Build nothing, go on ppt for 4-8 days runs and build nothing... That was the standard tactic during the last DDE war with OE for both sides! So planets changed nothing.


Reasons
Why i build up planets
A, during the last DDE OE war, i used over 12 quad of naq, and i want to say that at least 5-8 of it was just weapon repairs, not uu replacement but just repairs it's really costly.
As of this short war ( only 1 month in at the moment i've used less than 2 quad) and mostly to be buying more units (prices are higher then last war)

As for the merlins ( my are permi merlin cause i'm forgetful having in the past lost all my duals many times.)

Now Mathlord commented that i don't want NAP's cause of my planets, and the truth is he's right it's just too profitable for me to farm you when you leave 1-10 tril naq out on anything less than a 70 tril defense.
However i do have a solution to that.


Change the 20 merlin costs to switch planets stats to the following
A, Keep the 20 merlins as a Switch NOW option
B, Using 1 merlin you can switch your planets, however while they are switching you will not receive any bonus while switching them. This will take 48 hours to start the conversion. At the end of the 48 hours you will then be able to covert 5000 (construction) slots per turn. For someone You would need to do 789,474 upgrades. that would be an additional 3.28 days i would have to wait to get full benefits.
The reason from my way of thinking is this will allow ALL accounts to go from WAR mode to Peace Mode, without having to choose if they want to go without paying rent that month. It add's tactical flexibility into the game, yes it helps me, but it also helps out the average joe who's has those 10 income planets at 400-800bil with no defenses on them he's able to change them all to attack or defense planets and play the game, instead of just be sidelined.

[Richard B Riddick]

[spoiler]

well lets see

Defenses against my planets

Tactic 1, Mathlord uses it alot, Sab my weapons out and then mass my spies. ( just logged in, and ~coyle had just used it too)
Tactic 2, BUILD a defense not a token defense.
10 attack planets currently give me 15 tril strike for the cost of a 3 tril strike so that's a 18 tril strike at Peak efficiency.
Current attack limits (That keep changing btw in case you haven't notice cause i have) would allow that a
18 tril strike doubles to a 36 tril strike and then a 13 tril MS adds that to a 49 tril Max strike as a BEST case.

so, that being said 49 tril/ 0.30= 160 tril defense could be taken down, by taken down i mean that you could damage it. Now having said that it means the defenders MS has to be OUT, and the account has to be descended. Otherwise you will lose 19 out 20 of the battles without even damaging the defense hitting your head off a brick wall, yeah at some point you'll get through the wall, but you won't have much of a head left.
But what i'm trying to say if your defenses are as high as that that planets like mine mean Nothing!
So the answer is to build BIG defense and your ok, then i have to build up to take you down.
Now for the record Double strike does help. It means my 3 tril Raw strike needs to be (1.5 tril raw) that's it so it changes my peak effective strike from 18 tril to 16.5 tril.

Tactic 3
Build nothing, go on ppt for 4-8 days runs and build nothing... That was the standard tactic during the last DDE war with OE for both sides! So planets changed nothing.


Reasons
Why i build up planets
A, during the last DDE OE war, i used over 12 quad of naq, and i want to say that at least 5-8 of it was just weapon repairs, not uu replacement but just repairs it's really costly.
As of this short war ( only 1 month in at the moment i've used less than 2 quad) and mostly to be buying more units (prices are higher then last war)

As for the merlins ( my are permi merlin cause i'm forgetful having in the past lost all my duals many times.)

Now Mathlord commented that i don't want NAP's cause of my planets, and the truth is he's right it's just too profitable for me to farm you when you leave 1-10 tril naq out on anything less than a 70 tril defense.
However i do have a solution to that.


Change the 20 merlin costs to switch planets stats to the following
A, Keep the 20 merlins as a Switch NOW option
B, Using 1 merlin you can switch your planets, however while they are switching you will not receive any bonus while switching them. This will take 48 hours to start the conversion. At the end of the 48 hours you will then be able to covert 5000 (construction) slots per turn. For someone You would need to do 789,474 upgrades. that would be an additional 3.28 days i would have to wait to get full benefits.
The reason from my way of thinking is this will allow ALL accounts to go from WAR mode to Peace Mode, without having to choose if they want to go without paying rent that month. It add's tactical flexibility into the game, yes it helps me, but it also helps out the average joe who's has those 10 income planets at 400-800bil with no defenses on them he's able to change them all to attack or defense planets and play the game, instead of just be sidelined.

[/spoiler]

AAAAAAHHHHHHH IT'S AN ESSAY!!!!!!!

[Duderanch]

Typical plans to nerf after I use 120 merlins switching my duals

[Richard B Riddick]

Typical plans to nerf after I use 120 merlins switching my duals

at least you didn't use 220

[Mathlord]

I don't think the conversion is really the problem in making planets more costly...shoot, all the cheap conversion would do would be to allow players to go on PPT runs and switch from att/def to up/income and then back for the end. The wait period you suggested might help with that, but idk...this just seems like a way to increase the flexibility for accounts that already are taking advantage of the fact they have untake-able planets.

[Duderanch]

The best option would be remove merlins from bm/ss

[Richard B Riddick]

The best option would be remove merlins from bm/ss

Yup, just like old days
Was so weird returning from vac and seein merlins like that -_- so much cheaper than when USS was only way to perma merlin

[Mathlord]

The best option would be remove merlins from bm/ss

Again, I agree 100%, though I doubt it will happen :p

Spies originally were unkillable...then that changed. AC units then were unkillable until that changed. Same with other factors in the game. There is something that doesn't sit right with literally being able to pay to keep something protected forever. It's like when brothercrit went on perma black market PPT back in 2005. Some of you will remember that one haha.

[JasonJay]

With the 10 of the same stat planets, how about use the logic of needing a larger raw percentage to attain full bonus:

1 planet of a certain stat gives up to 60% raw
2 planet of a certain stat gives up to 55% raw
3 planet of a certain stat gives up to 50% raw
4 planet of a certain stat gives up to 45% raw

And so on approaching a 10% floor. So in HE's case of 10 1,5T att planets he would need a 15T raw strike giving him a 100% advantage opposed to a 500% advantage. Just my 2c

[teesdale]

[spoiler]well lets see

Defenses against my planets

Tactic 1, Mathlord uses it alot, Sab my weapons out and then mass my spies. ( just logged in, and ~coyle had just used it too)
Tactic 2, BUILD a defense not a token defense.
10 attack planets currently give me 15 tril strike for the cost of a 3 tril strike so that's a 18 tril strike at Peak efficiency.
Current attack limits (That keep changing btw in case you haven't notice cause i have) would allow that a
18 tril strike doubles to a 36 tril strike and then a 13 tril MS adds that to a 49 tril Max strike as a BEST case.

so, that being said 49 tril/ 0.30= 160 tril defense could be taken down, by taken down i mean that you could damage it. Now having said that it means the defenders MS has to be OUT, and the account has to be descended. Otherwise you will lose 19 out 20 of the battles without even damaging the defense hitting your head off a brick wall, yeah at some point you'll get through the wall, but you won't have much of a head left.
But what i'm trying to say if your defenses are as high as that that planets like mine mean Nothing!
So the answer is to build BIG defense and your ok, then i have to build up to take you down.
Now for the record Double strike does help. It means my 3 tril Raw strike needs to be (1.5 tril raw) that's it so it changes my peak effective strike from 18 tril to 16.5 tril.

Tactic 3
Build nothing, go on ppt for 4-8 days runs and build nothing... That was the standard tactic during the last DDE war with OE for both sides! So planets changed nothing.


Reasons
Why i build up planets
A, during the last DDE OE war, i used over 12 quad of naq, and i want to say that at least 5-8 of it was just weapon repairs, not uu replacement but just repairs it's really costly.
As of this short war ( only 1 month in at the moment i've used less than 2 quad) and mostly to be buying more units (prices are higher then last war)

As for the merlins ( my are permi merlin cause i'm forgetful having in the past lost all my duals many times.)

Now Mathlord commented that i don't want NAP's cause of my planets, and the truth is he's right it's just too profitable for me to farm you when you leave 1-10 tril naq out on anything less than a 70 tril defense.
However i do have a solution to that.


Change the 20 merlin costs to switch planets stats to the following
A, Keep the 20 merlins as a Switch NOW option
B, Using 1 merlin you can switch your planets, however while they are switching you will not receive any bonus while switching them. This will take 48 hours to start the conversion. At the end of the 48 hours you will then be able to covert 5000 (construction) slots per turn. For someone You would need to do 789,474 upgrades. that would be an additional 3.28 days i would have to wait to get full benefits.
The reason from my way of thinking is this will allow ALL accounts to go from WAR mode to Peace Mode, without having to choose if they want to go without paying rent that month. It add's tactical flexibility into the game, yes it helps me, but it also helps out the average joe who's has those 10 income planets at 400-800bil with no defenses on them he's able to change them all to attack or defense planets and play the game, instead of just be sidelined.[/spoiler]

As much as this threat is about defending against you (and simular set accounts) HE, its also about creating balance
After being back for like 2 weeks, im faaar from war ready, like moon and back kind of far, but, with not a single attack planet to speak of, I massed a 30t def relying on nothing but supers just for this thread (sorry BumbleBeast but you left enough naq out for it to be paid for).

his stats
[spoiler]Military Stats

Strike Action: 10,421,404,254,582
Defensive Action 30,155,515,669,440
Covert Action: 25,101,326,255,664
Covert Skill: 35
Covert Operatives: 30,000,000

def mercs: 25,536,759
def supers: 62,483,984
My Mothership uses its Pod Volley to inflict 283,575,000 damage
Naquadah: 17,253,655,144,909 <-- Bonus

weapons:
Targeted Spacial Distortions Defense 90,000,000 5750/5750[/spoiler]

my strike
[spoiler]Strike Action 13,851,366,240,000
Super Questers 31,767,028
Equipped Military Fleet 31,000,000

MotherShip Power
Offense Strength 1,009,929,975,000[/spoiler]

first battle report(using 3AT) we both got AB

[spoiler]The forces of *Teesdale™ rush in full force, and inflict 23,799,788,354,300 damage on *Bumblebeast's forces!
It was confirmed that 124,476 of *Bumblebeast's forces fell at the hands of *Teesdale™'s assult.

The forces of *Bumblebeast fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 54,279,928,205,000 damage on *Teesdale™'s forces!
They managed to eradicate 239,932 of *Teesdale™'s troops.[/spoiler]

second report (3AT) he gets AB and i dont:

[spoiler]The forces of *Teesdale™ rush in full force, and inflict 13,099,052,656,700 damage on *Bumblebeast's forces!
It was confirmed that 0 of *Bumblebeast's forces fell at the hands of *Teesdale™'s assult.

The forces of *Bumblebeast fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 55,486,148,831,800 damage on *Teesdale™'s forces!
They managed to eradicate 452,971 of *Teesdale™'s troops.[/spoiler]

so i used 3 turns till i got his def down to about 20t, so my AB could beat him on a full turn attack... this was the first full turn attack i done, i got AB, he didnt:
[spoiler]The forces of *Teesdale™ rush in full force, and inflict 26,082,080,500,600 damage on *Bumblebeast's forces!
It was confirmed that 1,159,817 of *Bumblebeast's forces fell at the hands of *Teesdale™'s assult.

The forces of *Bumblebeast fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 20,862,210,951,200 damage on *Teesdale™'s forces!
They managed to eradicate 1,153,745 of *Teesdale™'s troops.[/spoiler]

second 15 turn attack, he got AB, i didnt:
[spoiler]The forces of *Teesdale™ rush in full force, and inflict 13,226,052,936,900 damage on *Bumblebeast's forces!
It was confirmed that 0 of *Bumblebeast's forces fell at the hands of *Teesdale™'s assult.

The forces of *Bumblebeast fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 39,411,494,480,100 damage on *Teesdale™'s forces!
They managed to eradicate 4,167,475 of *Teesdale™'s troops.[/spoiler]


his total losses were:
58mil supers
23mil mercs
20mil spies
90mil weaps
18t naq

total naq cost aprox. 175t all up

my losses:
1600 AT
34mil supers
85mil mercs
6t repair naq

my total naq loss cost: 31t (49t if he didnt have naq out)

Thats NO other influences from planets, and only 1t from my tank as MS...

NOW take your account HE, you could do the exact same damage at the cost of what? 5tril? THIS is the unbalance thats there, yes you should get more of a benifit with the way your account is set up, but massing with no support on either side at a 1:4 ratio SHOULD be seen as half decent... break it all down to naq cost, and you would be doing the same at a 1:35 loss ratio (aprox.).
there is no way at all that can be considered fair on the average joe blow defender.

[teesdale]

Case 2.
Planets provide up to 500% bonus to strike/defence.
Planets of the same type should make each other less effective. Lore-wise, if you have only a single division of elite defenders, they will fight to their last breath to defend you; however, if they know they have a million others standing backup, they will not fight as hard (after all, why keep fighting when you are injured if you know someone can take your place at a moment's notice).
This would work out to (for example..(!)..) 1 attack planet being able to provide 50% support, 2 attack planets each being able to provide 45% support, 3 40%, 4 35%, 5 30% and 6 through 10 providing 25%. (At optimal strength, that would equate to 1:50%, 2:90%, 3:120%, 4:140%, 5:150%, 6:175%, 7:200%, 8:225%, 9:250%, 10:275%; a max strike of 375% having just raw strike and planetary contribution, as opposed to current 600% total.)
Any effectiveness reduction will be applied equivalently to covert/income/UP attributes.

Case 3.
Mothership provides up to 100% bonus to strike or defence.
Given the previous two cases, it makes sense to restrict the max contribution of any one factor to 50% of raw strike/defence, including MS.

Although i voted for the nerf of all three, IMO AB is fine... although having just used a LG account for a bit, it makes hard work for massing an unk account, lol

This is the part of the proposal i agree with, the maths in the reduction per amount of planets ect. quoted here actually sound extreamly reasonable and applicable, i like it.

same with the MS, again IMO it should only add upto 50% of raw strike, thus needing to train units to get the full power of the MS, and despite earlier comments they wont be useless because you can still mass other MS' even if its not contributing to your strike.

BUT to even the playing field you cant bash one without the other (ying and yang) sorry naq **Filtered** but there would have to be the same aplication to UP planets... not sure how it would be implimented on naq planets though since they have never been capped

[Field Marshall]

The game has allowed and advocated a playing field where a monority of people have been able to maximise each contributing factor to strike/defence to provide a optimal output to their strike/defence.

I have no doubt, that some of these players have contributed thousands of investment into the community. Whether Kingdom Games or the community are the beneficaries, the resulting income I'm sure will eventually be seen within the stakeholder pockets.

At the risk of bombardment, there are 4-5 people who deploy this strategy, we all know who they are. Nevertheless, I do feel they are allowed some protection and not another knee-jerk reaction by the majority who are at the mercy of indivduals. This appears to take the same path as TL v Feri back in the TL v mh/DDE war!

I think that minute tweeks should be made, but not to the exaggeration I believe many are thinking. It's too late in the game to radically change the game. For this reason, I will choose option A but this provides background to my choice.

Just for informative purposes, a more radical update will be highly beneficary to myself and my alliance. I have a little MS and only 2 planets of significance

[Mathlord]

But that's the thing FM, the game is changing radically all the damn time whether we are invested in the process or not. I always tend to air on the side of the status quo, but if the game is going to be changing, then we have to take part in trying to make the future of this game as balanced as possible.

[teesdale]

It's too late in the game to radically change the game.

actually there has to be some late point where radical changes are made... imagine starting from dead scratch right now, how long it would take to catch up just to the lesser established accounts let alone the hard hitting ones.
to build a MS from 0, to ascend to unk, then get covert levels and UP to a 3rd world country standard.
thats what its like for new players. no competition.

[Field Marshall]

It's too late in the game to radically change the game.

actually there has to be some late point where radical changes are made... imagine starting from dead scratch right now, how long it would take to catch up just to the lesser established accounts let alone the hard hitting ones.
to build a MS from 0, to ascend to unk, then get covert levels and UP to a 3rd world country standard.
thats what its like for new players. no competition.

No, I don't think that is entirelly accurate! If I was to farm heavily for a month, I would have enough naq to sell for currency that I could buy any account currently for sale on this forum. Including mine.

But that's the thing FM, the game is changing radically all the damn time whether we are invested in the process or not. I always tend to air on the side of the status quo, but if the game is going to be changing, then we have to take part in trying to make the future of this game as balanced as possible.

Apart from newgrounds, which added the same benefit for everybody (albeit it people who accepted the free multi) the last changing update was the MS and income planet update. This has shaped where we are today and allowed some less active people to catch up without having to rely on huge external investments.

I don't believe in updates for the minority, I believe in updates for the majority. This update is for HE and a few others who have adapted their accounts.