Haz - Feedback

[xDaku]

Yea, it would be a reflection of who I am, but it doesn't change what it is. You're going off the presumption that people SHOULDN'T have feelings because people in general are **Filtered**. That's a stupid **Filtered** way to go about things. I look for improvement and containment over ignorance in a community.

[jedi~tank]

Yea, it would be a reflection of who I am, but it doesn't change what it is. You're going off the presumption that people SHOULDN'T have feelings because people in general are **Filtered**. That's a stupid **Filtered** way to go about things. I look for improvement and containment over ignorance in a community.

If that is true then why are you still here on this forum? All you do is troll and try to antagonize.

[xDaku]

You throw around the word troll very freely.

[The Doctor]

Question.

Why do you continue to moderate people you know have a problem with you moderating them?
Unless it is an emergency situation or massive issue, as Mr head honcho should you not have enough respect for the users of this community to know when not to involve yourself?
Whether you are right or wrong... its just common decency and would cause a hell of a lot less stress for your staff and general populous.

I assume you are referring to my banning of R0B3RT? I actually left that for 24 hours for another admin to do, but unfortunately they weren't around. I didn't believe a ban should be left for too long, so I did it.

Also, as mentioned before, not modding someone because they don't like me modding, wouldn't that be bias? Shouldn't I treat them the same way as I would any other user?

cos he's a power hungry mod that thinks he is god, on this forum he is king and noone shall defy haz

I'm no god, I'm no king, and defy me all you like. If it breaks the rules, someone will follow it up. If not, well good for you

I like how people accuse me of power hunger, despite the fact I am no longer a mod, and as such, restricted in any "mod actions" on the forum...

as ive been told many times by mods and haz himself, what happens ingame has no relevence to on the forum take a hike titris

What happens ingame is not relevant to the forum... for mods. That does not mean a user can't mass me for actions on the forums.

ive been berating him and trolling him for years now, id hate to break that tradition, and i think he'd also be upset if i didnt now . it would be a lose lose situation

Wouldn't be upset. Wouldn't really care either way. But it would make it easier on the other mods and admins if you restricted the berating to legitimate concerns, and restricted the trolling completely

Now guys, can we please keep this on topic, based on my modding/admin feedback, instead of the insults and unrelated whine-fests?

[SuperSaiyan]

Question.

Why do you continue to moderate people you know have a problem with you moderating them?
Unless it is an emergency situation or massive issue, as Mr head honcho should you not have enough respect for the users of this community to know when not to involve yourself?
Whether you are right or wrong... its just common decency and would cause a hell of a lot less stress for your staff and general populous.

I assume you are referring to my banning of R0B3RT? I actually left that for 24 hours for another admin to do, but unfortunately they weren't around. I didn't believe a ban should be left for too long, so I did it.

Also, as mentioned before, not modding someone because they don't like me modding, wouldn't that be bias? Shouldn't I treat them the same way as I would any other user?

I'm not referring to any one instance. You have ALWAYS been incapable of not intruding into situations where you shouldn't necessarily be jumping into. I know for a fact your section heads are around constantly, instead of just sitting there waiting for someone to notice the ban next time, may I suggest you PM one of them to take 5 seconds out of their day to click a few buttons and handle it? As I said, you are the top of the chain right now, being the only administrator. Delegation.

Not modding someone because they have a severe problem with you is not being biased. It is being respectful towards the community and having consideration for your staff. As I said before it makes absolutely no difference if your actions are correct or not. If someone has this big aproblem with you, you SHOULD NOT be touching their stuff unles it is absolutely necessary and I have yet to see an instance where it is. Juliette, Niem, Psyko, and Sol are all here daily. Since you brought up robert's ban, yes you should have PM'd one of them to handle it. Do you know how many times the GMs/Admins used to do that to maintain some civility on these forums? A simple "Hey, since its DDE would you mind taking care of this, you know if I do it they re gonna start **Filtered**'" would be more than sufficient and would save all of us a hell of a lot of drama no one cares about.

Your job is more than just cracking down on the rules, and this is why I was dead set against you being made an admin and certainly less than happy when we bumped you up to GM, you do not seem to understand that it is your job to foster good-will and positive energy in the environment. Some times you need to let a few rule breaks go, some times you need to cut people slack, and yes some times you need to shut the hell up and let someone else handle something to keep the peace. It is not being biased, it is being a good leader. Your grubby hands don't need to be wrapped into every little thing. In fact, as an administrator you shouldn't be modding period. One of those lovely unofficial rules of Js, Admins DO NOT moderate unless Absolutely necessary.

[The Doctor]

Question.

Why do you continue to moderate people you know have a problem with you moderating them?
Unless it is an emergency situation or massive issue, as Mr head honcho should you not have enough respect for the users of this community to know when not to involve yourself?
Whether you are right or wrong... its just common decency and would cause a hell of a lot less stress for your staff and general populous.

I assume you are referring to my banning of R0B3RT? I actually left that for 24 hours for another admin to do, but unfortunately they weren't around. I didn't believe a ban should be left for too long, so I did it.

Also, as mentioned before, not modding someone because they don't like me modding, wouldn't that be bias? Shouldn't I treat them the same way as I would any other user?

I'm not referring to any one instance. You have ALWAYS been incapable of not intruding into situations where you shouldn't necessarily be jumping into. I know for a fact your section heads are around constantly, instead of just sitting there waiting for someone to notice the ban next time, may I suggest you PM one of them to take 5 seconds out of their day to click a few buttons and handle it? As I said, you are the top of the chain right now, being the only administrator. Delegation.

I'm not in charge of any of the other Admins (the only ones in the new forum structure who can ban users). I may be Mod and Tech Admin, but that doesn't make me "Top of the Chain", able to delegate tasks to other admins.

As a matter of fact, I contacted a fellow admin to do the ban, a few hours after it was requested, and followed up later in the day. I didn't go straight to banning him. I tried various alternatives, over a span of a whole day, to get someone else to do it.

Not modding someone because they have a severe problem with you is not being biased. It is being respectful towards the community and having consideration for your staff. As I said before it makes absolutely no difference if your actions are correct or not. If someone has this big aproblem with you, you SHOULD NOT be touching their stuff unles it is absolutely necessary and I have yet to see an instance where it is. Juliette, Niem, Psyko, and Sol are all here daily. Since you brought up robert's ban, yes you should have PM'd one of them to handle it. Do you know how many times the GMs/Admins used to do that to maintain some civility on these forums? A simple "Hey, since its DDE would you mind taking care of this, you know if I do it they re gonna start **Filtered**'" would be more than sufficient and would save all of us a hell of a lot of drama no one cares about.

As noted above, I did that... I won't make any note of the wording of such request

Your job is more than just cracking down on the rules, and this is why I was dead set against you being made an admin and certainly less than happy when we bumped you up to GM, you do not seem to understand that it is your job to foster good-will and positive energy in the environment. Some times you need to let a few rule breaks go, some times you need to cut people slack, and yes some times you need to shut the hell up and let someone else handle something to keep the peace. It is not being biased, it is being a good leader. Your grubby hands don't need to be wrapped into every little thing. In fact, as an administrator you shouldn't be modding period. One of those lovely unofficial rules of Js, Admins DO NOT moderate unless Absolutely necessary.

Yes, you may have been against me with GM and Admin, but with the new forum structure, things do change. Not everything is the same as when you were an admin.

My "modding actions" usually consist of ombudsman section (all admins there), sig violations (only me and Deni can do that) and other ACP-based stuff.

In the last few months I don't think I have "modded" outside of that. Nowadays, if I see a rule break, I report it, and follow it up with my fellow admins if it isn't seen to within a reasonable time (usually a few days). Also, I'm sure you'll like this. I actually believe I was given the Mod Admin role to remove me from most Mod-to-User interaction, due to my "reputation" as a mod in General. All that above combined with the Tech Admin stuff is pretty much as far from modding as I could be.

Things have changed. I believe that at least some of that is positive.

[SuperSaiyan]

Question.

Why do you continue to moderate people you know have a problem with you moderating them?
Unless it is an emergency situation or massive issue, as Mr head honcho should you not have enough respect for the users of this community to know when not to involve yourself?
Whether you are right or wrong... its just common decency and would cause a hell of a lot less stress for your staff and general populous.

I assume you are referring to my banning of R0B3RT? I actually left that for 24 hours for another admin to do, but unfortunately they weren't around. I didn't believe a ban should be left for too long, so I did it.

Also, as mentioned before, not modding someone because they don't like me modding, wouldn't that be bias? Shouldn't I treat them the same way as I would any other user?

I'm not referring to any one instance. You have ALWAYS been incapable of not intruding into situations where you shouldn't necessarily be jumping into. I know for a fact your section heads are around constantly, instead of just sitting there waiting for someone to notice the ban next time, may I suggest you PM one of them to take 5 seconds out of their day to click a few buttons and handle it? As I said, you are the top of the chain right now, being the only administrator. Delegation.

I'm not in charge of any of the other Admins (the only ones in the new forum structure who can ban users). I may be Mod and Tech Admin, but that doesn't make me "Top of the Chain", able to delegate tasks to other admins.

As a matter of fact, I contacted a fellow admin to do the ban, a few hours after it was requested, and followed up later in the day. I didn't go straight to banning him. I tried various alternatives, over a span of a whole day, to get someone else to do it.

Then that is an issue you need to look at. Something that was obviously present during the awards as well. A whole bunch of people not doing their jobs.

Not modding someone because they have a severe problem with you is not being biased. It is being respectful towards the community and having consideration for your staff. As I said before it makes absolutely no difference if your actions are correct or not. If someone has this big aproblem with you, you SHOULD NOT be touching their stuff unles it is absolutely necessary and I have yet to see an instance where it is. Juliette, Niem, Psyko, and Sol are all here daily. Since you brought up robert's ban, yes you should have PM'd one of them to handle it. Do you know how many times the GMs/Admins used to do that to maintain some civility on these forums? A simple "Hey, since its DDE would you mind taking care of this, you know if I do it they re gonna start **Filtered**'" would be more than sufficient and would save all of us a hell of a lot of drama no one cares about.

As noted above, I did that... I won't make any note of the wording of such request

k

Your job is more than just cracking down on the rules, and this is why I was dead set against you being made an admin and certainly less than happy when we bumped you up to GM, you do not seem to understand that it is your job to foster good-will and positive energy in the environment. Some times you need to let a few rule breaks go, some times you need to cut people slack, and yes some times you need to shut the hell up and let someone else handle something to keep the peace. It is not being biased, it is being a good leader. Your grubby hands don't need to be wrapped into every little thing. In fact, as an administrator you shouldn't be modding period. One of those lovely unofficial rules of Js, Admins DO NOT moderate unless Absolutely necessary.

Yes, you may have been against me with GM and Admin, but with the new forum structure, things do change. Not everything is the same as when you were an admin.

My "modding actions" usually consist of ombudsman section (all admins there), sig violations (only me and Deni can do that) and other ACP-based stuff.

In the last few months I don't think I have "modded" outside of that. Nowadays, if I see a rule break, I report it, and follow it up with my fellow admins if it isn't seen to within a reasonable time (usually a few days). Also, I'm sure you'll like this. I actually believe I was given the Mod Admin role to remove me from most Mod-to-User interaction, due to my "reputation" as a mod in General. All that above combined with the Tech Admin stuff is pretty much as far from modding as I could be.

Things have changed. I believe that at least some of that is positive.

The structure may have changed, but the issues have not. The ignorance, favoritism, and over all lack of accountability is all still running rampant around.
usually? laughable.

That may have been the intention haz, but it certainly has not had that effect at all.
The sheer fact that you just said you were promoted because they wanted you to STOP modding just... astounds me. I personally cannot conceive the type of stupidity it takes to promote someone because you want them to stop doing something.

As I have repeatedly tried to tell you in the past, Modding is more than just rules haz. And continually you seem ignorant to this principal. Modding is fostering the community. You just posting in certain issues threads that do not require you to post in is causing problems you are too arrogant to see (as the king of arrogance, I know it when I see it). The ombudsman section? Ok, lets talk there. Why are you modding people who are complaining about YOU? Again, Sol, Niem, Juliette, and Psyko are all extremely forum active. You should not be touching that stuff unless absolutely necessary. And yet, every time I click a thread there you are.

The faces may have changed since the fall, the issues have not.
Change is good, ignorance to failure is not.

[The Doctor]

That may have been the intention haz, but it certainly has not had that effect at all.
The sheer fact that you just said you were promoted because they wanted you to STOP modding just... astounds me. I personally cannot conceive the type of stupidity it takes to promote someone because you want them to stop doing something.

As I said, I believe that is the reason. I don't know if it is true.

As I have repeatedly tried to tell you in the past, Modding is more than just rules haz. And continually you seem ignorant to this principal. Modding is fostering the community. You just posting in certain issues threads that do not require you to post in is causing problems you are too arrogant to see (as the king of arrogance, I know it when I see it).

Yes I know. Where have I said that its just rules? Please don't misintrepret my words, I don't mean for it to seem like I only go based on the letter of the rules.

Also, is this not a public forum? Suddenly I'm restricted on what I can post? If what I have to post is relevant, why should I not post? And please give me a reason other than "it causes trouble". I'm dont believe I should stop posting because a user has an issue with me, unless their issue with me is valid. In the case of R0B3RT/DDE and such, I do not believe any calls they have accused me of are valid. Obviously, if evidence is provided against me, I'd listen (*broken record*)

The ombudsman section? Ok, lets talk there. Why are you modding people who are complaining about YOU? Again, Sol, Niem, Juliette, and Psyko are all extremely forum active. You should not be touching that stuff unless absolutely necessary. And yet, every time I click a thread there you are.

No, I'm not modding anyone there. Modding in ombudsman section does not necessarily mean modding users. All I've done there is lock 2 threads, first one as the thread was no longer needed, nothing to do with me (I didn't warn or ban the user), due to the error with the ban, second one, the user specified they didn't wish to appeal the ban. Why is that such a bad thing?

[SuperSaiyan]

That may have been the intention haz, but it certainly has not had that effect at all.
The sheer fact that you just said you were promoted because they wanted you to STOP modding just... astounds me. I personally cannot conceive the type of stupidity it takes to promote someone because you want them to stop doing something.

As I said, I believe that is the reason. I don't know if it is true.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me at all to be ompletely honest.
But I imagine the reason you were truly promoted was because jason tends to do that to people he likes regardless anything else.

As I have repeatedly tried to tell you in the past, Modding is more than just rules haz. And continually you seem ignorant to this principal. Modding is fostering the community. You just posting in certain issues threads that do not require you to post in is causing problems you are too arrogant to see (as the king of arrogance, I know it when I see it).

Is this not a public forum? Suddenly I'm restricted on what I can post?

YES!

Finally he gets it.
The forum may be public but the minute you dawn that special color and get some big boy pants you are no longer free. You are an appendage of the forums and should behave as such. Especially since you are above all the mods. You should be leading by example instead of flaming users and causing a commotion. If you know someone is going to react poorly to anything you say... DON'T SAY IT. As you said, you are not above any of the section heads, let them handle the users with massive problems with you so things don't get out of hand and out of control. Say whatever the **Filtered** you want in the mod sections, keep it private.

You need to watch what you say, you need to not speak your mind, and you need to realize that as a top level staff member every single thing you post is being perceived differently. So yes, you are restricted, you are restricted to act the way you want everyone else to act, the staff and the users. When you learn how to do that, maybe we'll actually see some change thats worth something.

The ombudsman section? Ok, lets talk there. Why are you modding people who are complaining about YOU? Again, Sol, Niem, Juliette, and Psyko are all extremely forum active. You should not be touching that stuff unless absolutely necessary. And yet, every time I click a thread there you are.

No, I'm not modding anyone there. Modding in ombudsman section does not necessarily mean modding users. All I've done there is lock 2 threads, first one as the thread was no longer needed, due to the error with the ban, second one, the user specified they didn't wish to appeal the ban. Why is that such a bad thing?

Modding is Modding. That is all people see. I don't give a damn if you are just doing something that only people with the MCP have access to know you even did. You should not be doing it to those individuals. It is the perception of the action and not the action itself that is causing the problems. How many god damn times do I have to say it before you understand the point.

[The Doctor]

Is this not a public forum? Suddenly I'm restricted on what I can post?

YES!

Finally he gets it.
The forum may be public but the minute you dawn that special color and get some big boy pants you are no longer free. You are an appendage of the forums and should behave as such. Especially since you are above all the mods. You should be leading by example instead of flaming users and causing a commotion. If you know someone is going to react poorly to anything you say... DON'T SAY IT.

Lets use the ombudsman corner as an example. R0B3RT asks for the reason for his warning, and ban. Oh look, I have the ability to read a users usernotes. I can answer his query for him. If I answer his query, he can progress onto either agreeing with the warning and going through his ban, or he can appeal it. But no, because of previous tensions with R0B3RT, I'm not allowed to respond? That's just ridiculous.

You need to watch what you say, you need to not speak your mind, and you need to realize that as a top level staff member every single thing you post is being perceived differently. So yes, you are restricted, you are restricted to act the way you want everyone else to act, the staff and the users. When you learn how to do that, maybe we'll actually see some change thats worth something.

I can be restricted when acting in a professional manner (eg using mod colour, providing details to a user). When providing my own personal (not professional) opinion, I am not restricted, apart from forum rules, just like any other user. Appropriate levels of restriction. I don't believe I should fully restrict myself because of mod/admin status, just in certain scenarios.

The ombudsman section? Ok, lets talk there. Why are you modding people who are complaining about YOU? Again, Sol, Niem, Juliette, and Psyko are all extremely forum active. You should not be touching that stuff unless absolutely necessary. And yet, every time I click a thread there you are.

No, I'm not modding anyone there. Modding in ombudsman section does not necessarily mean modding users. All I've done there is lock 2 threads, first one as the thread was no longer needed, due to the error with the ban, second one, the user specified they didn't wish to appeal the ban. Why is that such a bad thing?[/quote]

Modding is Modding. That is all people see. I don't give a damn if you are just doing something that only people with the MCP have access to know you even did. You should not be doing it to those individuals. It is the perception of the action and not the action itself that is causing the problems. How many god damn times do I have to say it before you understand the point.[/quote]

I should not be affected by a users perceptions of my actions, unless I am deliberately provoking those perceptions (protip: I am not). To be affected by these perceptions, that would introduce "bias".

There is only one real case I see an exception: Galactic Colosseum, mods involved in wars.

[Guild]

In the case of R0B3RT/DDE and such, I do not believe any calls they have accused me of are valid. Obviously, if evidence is provided against me, I'd listen (*broken record*)

oh your just trying to make your job easier arent you haz...

[The Doctor]

In the case of R0B3RT/DDE and such, I do not believe any calls they have accused me of are valid. Obviously, if evidence is provided against me, I'd listen (*broken record*)

oh your just trying to make your job easier arent you haz...

I did that, referring to how many times I've said that.

[Juliette]

As I have repeatedly tried to tell you in the past, Modding is more than just rules haz. And continually you seem ignorant to this principal. Modding is fostering the community. You just posting in certain issues threads that do not require you to post in is causing problems you are too arrogant to see (as the king of arrogance, I know it when I see it).

Is this not a public forum? Suddenly I'm restricted on what I can post?

YES!

Finally he gets it.
The forum may be public but the minute you dawn that special color and get some big boy pants you are no longer free. You are an appendage of the forums and should behave as such. Especially since you are above all the mods. You should be leading by example instead of flaming users and causing a commotion. If you know someone is going to react poorly to anything you say... DON'T SAY IT. As you said, you are not above any of the section heads, let them handle the users with massive problems with you so things don't get out of hand and out of control. Say whatever the **Filtered** you want in the mod sections, keep it private.

You need to watch what you say, you need to not speak your mind, and you need to realize that as a top level staff member every single thing you post is being perceived differently. So yes, you are restricted, you are restricted to act the way you want everyone else to act, the staff and the users. When you learn how to do that, maybe we'll actually see some change thats worth something.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. We have been discussing that as well.. in my opinion, a mod is a mod is a mod, whether he be posting in his section, or elsewhere.. a higher standard should apply. (Yes, that means I need to clean up my act as well.. but the point stands.)

It is a rather lengthy debate though. The 'volunteer argument', that is "We cannot be forced to do something because we are volunteers" is something I personally dislike in this debate.

Modding is Modding. That is all people see. I don't give a damn if you are just doing something that only people with the MCP have access to know you even did. You should not be doing it to those individuals. It is the perception of the action and not the action itself that is causing the problems. How many god damn times do I have to say it before you understand the point.

Also agreed, also something I have been saying to Haz for a while now.. but in the case of Rob3rt's recent ban (as an example) I was not available (nor willing, for other trivial reasons).

In general, I think Haz understands your point, but he likes to argue.

[SuperSaiyan]

As I have repeatedly tried to tell you in the past, Modding is more than just rules haz. And continually you seem ignorant to this principal. Modding is fostering the community. You just posting in certain issues threads that do not require you to post in is causing problems you are too arrogant to see (as the king of arrogance, I know it when I see it).

Is this not a public forum? Suddenly I'm restricted on what I can post?

YES!

Finally he gets it.
The forum may be public but the minute you dawn that special color and get some big boy pants you are no longer free. You are an appendage of the forums and should behave as such. Especially since you are above all the mods. You should be leading by example instead of flaming users and causing a commotion. If you know someone is going to react poorly to anything you say... DON'T SAY IT. As you said, you are not above any of the section heads, let them handle the users with massive problems with you so things don't get out of hand and out of control. Say whatever the **Filtered** you want in the mod sections, keep it private.

You need to watch what you say, you need to not speak your mind, and you need to realize that as a top level staff member every single thing you post is being perceived differently. So yes, you are restricted, you are restricted to act the way you want everyone else to act, the staff and the users. When you learn how to do that, maybe we'll actually see some change thats worth something.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. We have been discussing that as well.. in my opinion, a mod is a mod is a mod, whether he be posting in his section, or elsewhere.. a higher standard should apply. (Yes, that means I need to clean up my act as well.. but the point stands.)

It is a rather lengthy debate though. The 'volunteer argument', that is "We cannot be forced to do something because we are volunteers" is something I personally dislike in this debate.

Here, Im going to help you... IKR! Me help YOU.
Here is the victory over the "volunteer argument".
"You don't like it? Quit."

That simple. Volunteer or not, that is not an excuse.

In general, I think Haz understands your point, but he likes to argue.

And that in of itself is a major problem that needs to be corrected.

[Guild]

As I have repeatedly tried to tell you in the past, Modding is more than just rules haz. And continually you seem ignorant to this principal. Modding is fostering the community. You just posting in certain issues threads that do not require you to post in is causing problems you are too arrogant to see (as the king of arrogance, I know it when I see it).

Is this not a public forum? Suddenly I'm restricted on what I can post?

YES!

Finally he gets it.
The forum may be public but the minute you dawn that special color and get some big boy pants you are no longer free. You are an appendage of the forums and should behave as such. Especially since you are above all the mods. You should be leading by example instead of flaming users and causing a commotion. If you know someone is going to react poorly to anything you say... DON'T SAY IT. As you said, you are not above any of the section heads, let them handle the users with massive problems with you so things don't get out of hand and out of control. Say whatever the **Filtered** you want in the mod sections, keep it private.

You need to watch what you say, you need to not speak your mind, and you need to realize that as a top level staff member every single thing you post is being perceived differently. So yes, you are restricted, you are restricted to act the way you want everyone else to act, the staff and the users. When you learn how to do that, maybe we'll actually see some change thats worth something.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. We have been discussing that as well.. in my opinion, a mod is a mod is a mod, whether he be posting in his section, or elsewhere.. a higher standard should apply. (Yes, that means I need to clean up my act as well.. but the point stands.)

It is a rather lengthy debate though. The 'volunteer argument', that is "We cannot be forced to do something because we are volunteers" is something I personally dislike in this debate.

Here, Im going to help you... IKR! Me help YOU.
Here is the victory over the "volunteer argument".
"You don't like it? Quit."

That simple. Volunteer or not, that is not an excuse.

In general, I think Haz understands your point, but he likes to argue.

And that in of itself is a major problem that needs to be corrected.