THANK YOU trife, you have just shown the PERFECT example of the userend problems on this fourm, rather than give to the conversation you give insults.
Be thankful youre protected by TO tags.
Some people can only pull out insults when they get fustrated by overly long posts or words...
Are we beating a dead horse? I dont think so, the problem has been reconised by some people, mods included, sadly they just went and did a /rage quit. High levels of maturity there, yes im sure.
THANK YOU trife, you have just shown the PERFECT example of the userend problems on this fourm, rather than give to the conversation you give insults.
Be thankful youre protected by TO tags.
Some people can only pull out insults when they get fustrated by overly long posts or words...
Are we beating a dead horse? I dont think so, the problem has been reconised by some people, mods included, sadly they just went and did a /rage quit. High levels of maturity there, yes im sure.
-Goodie
Dont forget those like trife who ignore the problem and snipe at other users who are trying to fix it, thats a problem too in its own way.
Of course, and then when he realises the problem, and he will wonder why no one bothered to fix it before.
Dont you just love people?
Kinda like when at work, i pointed out 3 times out cages we put up when were not open didnt lock properly, they only got new ones after someone stole stuff by putting his hand through said un locking gates.
Not to interupt your discussion, but I feel the need to ask.
Is all the forums problems the result of Mod/Forum or do the user of this forum carry any of the burden in your eyes?
Not a redirect, just asking. I do think things are done improperly at times, But I see problems on both sides of the fense not just one.
schuesseled wrote:And Yes, If someone attacked me with a knife and I had a cannon I would shoot them with it.
Age old saying that, "Dont bring a knife to a gun fight"
Reason, youll get dead.
I guess you guys failed reading comprehension in school
Obviously with the state of the forums, some changes might be in order. That being said, however, the way you are going about trying to get the changes to happen is stupid, IMHO.
If I were trying to get someone to overhaul the forums and the mods, the LAST thing I'd do is go around the forums making 5 threads a day saying the same thing in the same abrasive/annoying/trollish manner that you are doing. Kind of like the whole 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' saying.
If you feel like your crusade is working just fine, great. However be prepared to have people call you out for beating the dead horse because you're saying the same things over and over and over.
Lore wrote:Not to interupt your discussion, but I feel the need to ask.
Is all the forums problems the result of Mod/Forum or do the user of this forum carry any of the burden in your eyes?
Not a redirect, just asking. I do think things are done improperly at times, But I see problems on both sides of the fense not just one.
Havnt i already said that? yes both partys are at fault.
However sadly the mods are focused on because they are meant to keep the onter partys in check.
Trife wrote:I guess you guys failed reading comprehension in school
Obviously with the state of the forums, some changes might be in order. That being said, however, the way you are going about trying to get the changes to happen is stupid, IMHO.
If I were trying to get someone to overhaul the forums and the mods, the LAST thing I'd do is go around the forums making 5 threads a day saying the same thing in the same abrasive/annoying/trollish manner that you are doing. Kind of like the whole 'don't bite the hand that feeds you' saying.
If you feel like your crusade is working just fine, great. However be prepared to have people call you out for beating the dead horse because you're saying the same things over and over and over.
I don't usually post much. I am more of the lurking kind really..
I have been around a fairly long time now and I am sorry that I was only lurking way back when I first detected the forum and that i am sort of active now.
For I am of the distinct opinion that the forum has gone to Tarterus in a handbasket lately..
Translation: Forum development have been less than stellar this last half year atleast.
So I have to say that I agree with the Tok'ra movement in this case however much I would have liked to disagree with them.
Since the Mods started treating the users as immature babies, the users or a great deal of them anyway took up the role that the mods gave them and things really went downhill fast.
A few of the mods atleast seems unwilling and unable to even comprehend that there is a problem and consider it their personal war to remove those that have different oppinions because they think that different oppinion is another word for troublemaker.
The new cloaking that removes the last vestige of responsibilites from the individual mods and takes away any accountability for the errors they make individually and forces us rather to have to take our grief out on the lot of them instead of the mod that does the piss poor job is also wrong.
When you are a mod you should still be held accountable for the actions you commit. But you should also get the praise for a job well done.
Now the fact that there exists some bad mods in this forum will now spill over on all the good mods since we cant identify who crapped up badly and who did a stellar job of modding the way it should be done.
As such most of the good mods in this forum will also feel let down and less willing to do the job because all they now get is crap in return.
Can anyone else see the snake that bites its own tale kind of loop we are stuck in?
I hope that the forum can be fixed, but for that to happen both a great deal of users and a few of the mods need to look to themselves and change how they do things now rather than just making the situation worse.
Then the mod anonymity must come to an end. For even mods must be accountable.
And thirdly we must be able to deal with most problems out in the open rather than trying to hide them and deny them, just in case they might disapear in a puff of illogic..
I hope the forums can be saved, I really do and I hope that all the good mods stay on even though they now get alot of mud slung at them because if this comunity is to survive we need all the good people we can get.
-Dralan TP
He knows when you are sleeping,
He knows when you're on the can,
He'll hunt you down and blast your ass from here to Pakistan.
You better not breathe, you better not move,
You're better off dead, I'm telling you dude.
Santa Claus is gunning you down!
Dralan wrote:When you are a mod you should still be held accountable for the actions you commit. But you should also get the praise for a job well done.
Now the fact that there exists some bad mods in this forum will now spill over on all the good mods since we cant identify who crapped up badly and who did a stellar job of modding the way it should be done.
As such most of the good mods in this forum will also feel let down and less willing to do the job because all they now get is crap in return.
Can anyone else see the snake that bites its own tale kind of loop we are stuck in?
I hope that the forum can be fixed, but for that to happen both a great deal of users and a few of the mods need to look to themselves and change how they do things now rather than just making the situation worse.
I hope the forums can be saved, I really do and I hope that all the good mods stay on even though they now get alot of mud slung at them because if this comunity is to survive we need all the good people we can get.
-Dralan TP
All well said, these qouted are the ones I personally like.
I agree that Mods should be held accountable for their actions, But I also agree forum users should be too. I want to fix the problems with Forums. Unfortunately untill BOTH Mods and FORUM USERS alike are held accountable it won't happen.
schuesseled wrote:And Yes, If someone attacked me with a knife and I had a cannon I would shoot them with it.
Age old saying that, "Dont bring a knife to a gun fight"
Reason, youll get dead.
Well I can state from experience and watching another forum slowly go under that mods having secret identities is counter productive.
I play several online games, and I've watched the forums on one slowly get worse and worse.
Anonymous mods stop getting seen as people, engender less and less respect because of it and instead are focused on for all of their negative actions. Add to their secret identities the fact that a dozen moderator accounts could be one person or one account could be dozens and your not able to easily see who should be addressed when attempting to get a grievance heard, worse yet it becomes possible to end up trying to talk to the same mod your having an issue with without being aware of it.
Lack of concrete moderator identities means its a short step to generalizing the moderators as a group instead of being able to address individuals.
This is even more disruptive as then the only public interactions with moderators come in two forms, watching the mods in action, which is then seen as an exercise of power rather than an effort to keep order. Or generic criticizing of the moderation in general.
Its the difference between an authority figure and a person, an authority figure can only engender obedience with the threat of retribution with the powers associated with his authority. A person on the other hand, can earn the respect of individuals, a community, and even their adversaries if they to their job well.
With the above examples its easy to see where each option will go, we were all children at one point (doubtless some of the forum users still are) and the opinions and respect of our friends and peers mattered way more to us than the words dictated on high from an authority figure.
A community is self regulating, it decides whats acceptable behaviour in it by the simple expedient that those who don't conform are rejected from it, be it physically or socially.
Anonymous moderators unfortunately can never be part of a community because they cannot interact with it as people, they will always and only be viewed as their power over others.
Yes, I am aware the thread is three days old, but my 'net has been acting up. First chance I had to get on, and I felt I could contribute.
TypoNinja wrote:Well I can state from experience and watching another forum slowly go under that mods having secret identities is counter productive.
I play several online games, and I've watched the forums on one slowly get worse and worse.
Anonymous mods stop getting seen as people, engender less and less respect because of it and instead are focused on for all of their negative actions. Add to their secret identities the fact that a dozen moderator accounts could be one person or one account could be dozens and your not able to easily see who should be addressed when attempting to get a grievance heard, worse yet it becomes possible to end up trying to talk to the same mod your having an issue with without being aware of it.
Lack of concrete moderator identities means its a short step to generalizing the moderators as a group instead of being able to address individuals.
This is even more disruptive as then the only public interactions with moderators come in two forms, watching the mods in action, which is then seen as an exercise of power rather than an effort to keep order. Or generic criticizing of the moderation in general.
Its the difference between an authority figure and a person, an authority figure can only engender obedience with the threat of retribution with the powers associated with his authority. A person on the other hand, can earn the respect of individuals, a community, and even their adversaries if they to their job well.
With the above examples its easy to see where each option will go, we were all children at one point (doubtless some of the forum users still are) and the opinions and respect of our friends and peers mattered way more to us than the words dictated on high from an authority figure.
A community is self regulating, it decides whats acceptable behaviour in it by the simple expedient that those who don't conform are rejected from it, be it physically or socially.
Anonymous moderators unfortunately can never be part of a community because they cannot interact with it as people, they will always and only be viewed as their power over others.
Yes, I am aware the thread is three days old, but my 'net has been acting up. First chance I had to get on, and I felt I could contribute.
