Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

What do you want to see in the game? what can be improved? any suggestions welcome here...
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Flintcawk wrote:What if we did something like too get too 12 trill ms it costs half what it does now, and from there on it goes back too normal?
I think this is a good idea.
Aside from this I think the only nerf that is absolutely necessary is to att/def planets. Capping the amount of those planets you can have on one account could be a possible solution. If that is what's going to happen it will mean people with lots of planets need to get free planet stat changes though.

I think capping income planets isn't really necessary. You can make more money off PPT farming than you could on PPT doing nothing. Even our dear Reichsführer makes something like 2q a month from his income at the cost of limiting his farming potential. Really his investment on planets has given him the luxury of not spending time but still making a similar cahflow as a farmer.

One possibility regarding motherships could be to lessen the damage that breaks through shields. So if now 10t would break through after the update it would 6t and you would need to mass more of the ship before getting to a large breakthrough number. That wouldn't be a huge decrease in power but would give time for smaller accounts before they are absolutely crushed. Though I wouldn't be against reducing MS power accross the board either.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Belsamber wrote:
Then those who have spent the naq do they get the difference it cost them to get to 12tril or just count it as losses and waste of the additional time they had to put in ?

If you refund those who already achieved 12tril (for example) with their costs they put in versus what it costs now to the new system by all means.

Their is an abundance of naq out these days so much so people have minimums of 300bil and hardly have time to actually go through their entire farm list.

Quite frankly if someone put in a few months of hard work they would have a reasonably competitive account, only catch is perhaps the ascensions delay but either way the MS doesn't fall away each ascension like cov/ac levels besides the tech %.

I fully agree with what Anti/Adolf said in his posts (keeping in mind that I am one account with a smaller MS than most) it just doesn't seem right making it "easier".

Lastly any account can actually be 0'd yes costs might be ridiculous when a non money spender masses massive money spenders but it also is a lot easier to recover nowadays from a mass than it has ever been before. Hell you can farm 100tril in a TC if you actually can be bothered to do it.

Also agree with Tom that 1v1's aren't as entertaining due to MS's and Planets and double strike, however those who have the MS's and planets at the end of the day made it less entertaining for themselves and as such will have to deal :-D

The bank captcha though broke onliners for good...

Would be interesting to see where this goes as I can't see the game scaring off it's main clients.
You're missing my point. People are more likely to notice and complain what is taken off them (reducing MS and Planets) than an initial help to the new players (lower cost to initial upgrades).

MS surpass that of 15T of most $$ spenders. they'll still have much better but will give the a better chance for smaller accounts in war. $$ spender still have an advantage just not as much of one.

Someone also calculated the cost to go from unascended to Unknown and the cost and time is great for new players and i often see the saying 'they can get n Unknown for like $20.' I find it ludicrous as it's a free to play game.

The problem here is growing the player base, in continuing to let the gap grow this will never ever grow. In stubbornness for change in this community is ridiculous.

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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Belsamber wrote:
Then those who have spent the naq do they get the difference it cost them to get to 12tril or just count it as losses and waste of the additional time they had to put in ?

If you refund those who already achieved 12tril (for example) with their costs they put in versus what it costs now to the new system by all means.

.
I highly doubt admin would go to the extent of refunding naq...
Planets and motherships have been around for a long time, they have never been a problem before...why the sudden change of heart?
If people are willing to spend thousands of their own real life money it would be complete stupidity to think someone who plays for free could mass with the same/similar losses.
Sure thats a better outcome for smaller guys, but a complete spit in the face for those that spent $$.
It happens with all games where you can buy resources with $$, is it fair on those who dont/cant spend $$?
Probably not, but the option is there & people shouldnt be penalised for that.

Loki, if you are going to do it to attack/defence then it has to be done with everything, no exceptions.
Otherwise its not fair is it?
Ofcourse i stand to lose the most here due to the size of my planets but anyway.
Another thing for admin to consider, if reducing amount of one type of planets someone can hold, it impacts what people spend on merlins.
They may decide they only wsnt those 5 planets and then there is no need to buy merlins because you can use mt's and ppt to keep them without spending a cent.


Hindenberg-alicious
I agree, i think helping smaller players making it cheaper is more beneficial then cutting everyone down, where my ms is atm its stupidly expensive to upgrade to the point its not worth it.

In regards to growing population, wont happen in the thousands like you think
The game just isnt mainstream enough anymore and no show to get interest.
Old players and a few ones maybe.

As.for us unwilling to accept change, im sure if you had spent as much as some of us your position would be the same.
Regardless helping smaller players should be the aim here i think, snipping off if you will is only going to piss people off...
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Income and up planets don't make it more expensive to mass you.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Führer wrote: Planets and motherships have been around for a long time, they have never been a problem before...why the sudden change of heart?
Actually, back in 2010-2011 something like that MS and planets were such a problem that the power that UU gave def and attack was doubled and how planets gave stat bonus was nerfed.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Loki™ wrote:Income and up planets don't make it more expensive to mass you.
Indeed they dont, but how is it fair limiting att/def planets & doing nothing else?
Seems silly & this is coming from the person with the biggest income account in the game...
Duderanch wrote: Actually, back in 2010-2011 something like that MS and planets were such a problem that the power that UU gave def and attack was doubled and how planets gave stat bonus was nerfed.
Well easy fix, raise the amount of uu needed.
So instead of 10m, make it 30m for same benefits.
Then guys with planets are losing more etc
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Führer wrote:
Loki™ wrote:Income and up planets don't make it more expensive to mass you.
Indeed they dont, but how is it fair limiting att/def planets & doing nothing else?
Seems silly & this is coming from the person with the biggest income account in the game...
Duderanch wrote: Actually, back in 2010-2011 something like that MS and planets were such a problem that the power that UU gave def and attack was doubled and how planets gave stat bonus was nerfed.
Well easy fix, raise the amount of uu needed.
So instead of 10m, make it 30m for same benefits.
Then guys with planets are losing more etc
How is it unfair? We can just switch half of our duals to something else and it's all good. Though another way to fix it would be to make planets interact with att/def as a collective rather than individually. So that for a 12t def you'd need to have 6t naturally and 6t from planets rather than 2t naturally and 10t from planets.
Or make each planet contribute 25% instead of 50% so you'd need to build bigger to take full advantage of your planets. There are many ways we can try to remedy the situation.
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And Loki saw every thing that he had farmed, and, behold, it was very good.
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George Hazard says:
thats what happens, HVE takes your soul and gives you an awesome high
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The forces of Loki™ rush in full force, and inflict 1,086,054,534,340,000 damage on Pooop's forces!
It was confirmed that 12,620,737 of Pooop's forces fell at the hands of Loki™'s assult.

The forces of Pooop fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 481,837,854,506,000 damage on Loki™'s forces!
They managed to eradicate 1,988,050 of Loki™'s troops.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

In reference to several posts:

My suggestions were simply thought of on the spot and should not be thought as a definitive fix. I believe my suggestions are not long term fix, they need expanding on. We are never going to come to a decision that will please everyone, and yes I agree these should of been implemented years ago.

Reading through the posts just sounds as if we should give up, it's a game that's getting smaller each year, why make fixes that could result in players leaving who have been supporting the server upkeep. I don't agree with that, yes the game is small I don't think these updates will bring new players, they might how ever retain current ones.

I have spoken to large amount of players who have lost interest due planets taking control over the way massing/losses work. Reducing planets is just one idea, they need several implementations so that they retain there power but also don't mean you can take next to 0's losses. Changing the % to raw strike will mean you have to build bigger to reap the rewards, you also stand to loose more. This won't fix the issue, if anything it could make it worse as you have to destroy even bigger stats.

You focus too much around $$ and the upkeep on the game, this should not be something we need to take into consideration when thinking about adjustments. This is the for admins to think about before implementing changes. You can't presume to know if these changes will decrease annual yield, just like I can't

My idea's are not for new people, they are for existing people. This is not a simple fix at all, one simple fix will require re-work of nearly everything. IF you decrease MS power, people will focus on planets. IF you decrease MS + planets, people will focus on covert/ac. All these points can be devastating when playing against. The main issue is there is only a few viable routes to invest in.

I honestly can't see any of this being agreed upon and implemented, I only created this post due to various people looking into the game and seeing planets/ms still broken and turn there nose at it.

Houses don't do anything, they can all be countered so this doesn't have much say in the matter.

Motherships and planets need to be amended so that they are not the main drive in the game. Maybe a nerf is not the best solution but all ideas are welcome. If you reduced MS by 100%, give it and year and we are back at square one. I feel as if motherships and planets are too consistent, they add too much power consistently. You could add planet blockers ect.

Boosting new account is always a good thing for an old turn based game, I like the idea of implementing more alliance functionality. Paying 200t alliance bank for 35 covert boost, 400t for 37 covert boost, 500t for 38 covert boost. This way alliances will focus on building naq and keeping active. You could implement 200t naq + alliance G&r, alliance members need to be in top 30 for 15 days ect for 10k g&r. This is just an idea, the next question is how do we help lone wolfs then, well you will need to get G&R as well but compete against alliances, it also costs less maybe.

We need to help speed up the account building for people a lot smaller, I can appreciate people spending 100's and I don't want it to be a quick fix, 100t for 40 covert ect. You have to work hard for any change.

New ideas

Give more alliance functionality

1) Alliances have the ability to boost covert/ac levels for 10 of the lowest players. Cost increases per level and alliance g&r is required, this should NOT be based on alliance power but rankings.
2) - open to ideas

New starters

1) Ascension sped up potentially.
2) Decrease cost for 0-39 covert/ac and motherships 0-15t (can be discussed)
3) Decrease wep costs when under certain covert levels.

Old players

1) change raw strike power for motherships/planets
2) leave it as it is and just focus on helping new people and making the gap smaller.
3) Don't make motherships as consistent as they currently are, you could have mother ships needing powercells to work. You farm/raid or buy powercells on the market. Farming your second account could be abused so over ideas welcome.
4) PLanets changed so that you can convert them into another stat by waiting 24 hours for them to convert. This will allow people to change planet stats for ppt runs or out of war to reincorporate naq. Will this stop people buying merlins for converting planets, I don't think so. I think most people just buy merlins from the 6 mt's each weeks and convert from that.

Possible Ideas, it's difficult but I think if we put our heads together something good could come out of it.

P.S -

I say planets should be 25 -50 % of raw strike/defence. - People will still use planets as they are needed, don't focus on people buying merlins ect.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

I always find it funny...

We have 10 planets and 1ms

If your being massed you can only assign your1 planet to your 1ms

This means you only get the bonus of whichever planet your mothership is assigned to..

So if you feel like building income - assign your mothership to your income to get the benefits of your mothership gathering the increased income above your income planets

If you wanna mass - assign your mothership to attack and get the bonus of your attack planets (this idea is assuming we reduce planets to 5 attack/def 5 income

So you can only ever get the bonus of which ever planets you have assigned your mother ship too.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

What about something like quantum has where the further away from the top you are the cheaper it is to upgrade?
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

Duderanch wrote:What about something like quantum has where the further away from the top you are the cheaper it is to upgrade?
Could be easily exploited if u get massed and you rank 10k then you just get the cheap benefiTs and then train up when needed
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

harchester wrote:
Duderanch wrote:What about something like quantum has where the further away from the top you are the cheaper it is to upgrade?
Could be easily exploited if u get massed and you rank 10k then you just get the cheap benefiTs and then train up when needed
No, he means the more behind the top accounts on MS slots or Unit production you're the cheaper it becomes to catch up.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

how about we double ms size yet again , and leave planets how they are :)?

means people will be more inclined to actually build with units. :smt117

instead of the planets theyve spent years building


why take away something alot of people ahve worked hard for ? yes its a pain in the ass to fight the big accounts

well isnt that why there is a ranking system , some people just cant compete , theres always a top , mid and low level in gaming , making it an even palying field is just simply retarded , whats the point in even playing at that stage without a challenge ? these people are better than you because they spent the time to set their accounts up like that , the planets can be very easily built by non $ players if they play smart and stop **Filtered**.


idk yeah i thought about the fact ms's are too big they should be original size, but other than that hmm

the only way to balance out ms's is a tier'd power system


up to 1m base weps/shields it adds 100% of power per weapon whatever the base weaponj power is


1-2m adds 75%
2-3m adds 50%

3-4m 25%

for example

1 shields = 100,000 power
up to 1m shields this will add 100,000 per extra shield bought for capacity
1m-2m capacity it will then only add 75,000 per weapon
2-3m 50,000 ect ect....

the larger the ship get shte less and less benifit it is to dump more money into it

which evens out the field a little and deters vastly large building and even tho some ships could have a mill weps more its only a slight advantage but still an advantage. which is more fair , but it's more the fact that if youre returning now its oh **Filtered** my ms is 2t , how do i reach 50t like these 50,000$ **Filtered** lol

my advice , farm 5q a month

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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

I don't understand why people think i'm stating that MS and Planets should be redundant and averaged out. Not what I'm saying at all, I think the MS/Planets to UU ratio is silly and need's re working. People who invest $ should always be on top and will remain there, the only difference is by which method.
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Re: Calculations - MS amendment - Planet amendment

~Dä Vinci~ wrote:In reference to several posts:

Reading through the posts just sounds as if we should give up, it's a game that's getting smaller each year, why make fixes that could result in players leaving who have been supporting the server upkeep. I don't agree with that, yes the game is small I don't think these updates will bring new players, they might how ever retain current ones.
No one said anything about giving, up but as usual with TAF you have your mind set on one thing & are unable to comprehend something else that may differ from your plan.
People have suggested things in here & in previous threads you have put up, yet you always revert back to your idea without much consideration for theirs.
Frankly, thats what math is good at.
You have a good teacher...
As for the game getting smaller each year, its been hovering around its current account standing for a couple of years now.
Some people need a break & later come back when their ready, others leave for a while with unknown plans when they will return & then from time to time you get old players who want to have abit of fun/see old friends.
As you have noticed there has been a great influx of late due to the facebook page that was set up, I dont see them in here whinging like you are & yet you have one of the best accounts in the game....
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: I have spoken to large amount of players who have lost interest due planets taking control over the way massing/losses work. Reducing planets is just one idea, they need several implementations so that they retain there power but also don't mean you can take next to 0's losses. Changing the % to raw strike will mean you have to build bigger to reap the rewards, you also stand to loose more. This won't fix the issue, if anything it could make it worse as you have to destroy even bigger stats.
Well if you have indeed spoken to these players, maybe you can ask them to come here & voice their opinion.
Forgive me if I dont take your word for it.
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: You focus too much around $$ and the upkeep on the game, this should not be something we need to take into consideration when thinking about adjustments. This is the for admins to think about before implementing changes. You can't presume to know if these changes will decrease annual yield, just like I can't
The harsh reality is this is a major factor, because without the income generated from this game (merlins, attack turns etc) then this game would not have been here for as long as it has.
At the end of the day this is a business, yes its a fun game for us but for the admin team first & foremost it is a business & dismissing the idea that they don't need to consider what effect this update would have on the generation of income is just absurd.
Your right I dont know what effects this would have on the income generated, just like you dont know if this update will grow or decrease the population/loyalty of its members.
Unless you have some kind of magic ball you're not telling us about.
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: My idea's are not for new people, they are for existing people. This is not a simple fix at all, one simple fix will require re-work of nearly everything. IF you decrease MS power, people will focus on planets. IF you decrease MS + planets, people will focus on covert/ac. All these points can be devastating when playing against. The main issue is there is only a few viable routes to invest in.
Indeed it is not a simple fix, so let me get this right.
You want to make motherships smaller, you want cov/ac capped so you cant go past a certain point & you want planets to have minimal effect.
Sounds like taking the game backwards not helping it progress.
At the end of the day, its a game with not alot of areas to spend your naq on so there is always going to be that of not balanced areas.
Limiting things is just silly.
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: I honestly can't see any of this being agreed upon and implemented, I only created this post due to various people looking into the game and seeing planets/ms still broken and turn there nose at it.
Its a discussion that needed to happen, but just not down the path your wanting it to go....
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: Houses don't do anything, they can all be countered so this doesn't have much say in the matter.
As you know, houses were never introduced as a sure thing.
But like I said, if you speak to others and get a few alliances in the one spot and give your vote to one of the alliances you trust then you cannot be kicked from that house unless by said alliance.
Ofcourse you can join (cheaters i think it is) that cancels all the bonuses, but this is apart of the fun.
Maybe a time limit needs to be set where an alliance can only spend so long in a certain house before being auto kicked & having a cool off period, would avoid people abusing it.
So in that regard I think my statement holds true.
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: Motherships and planets need to be amended so that they are not the main drive in the game. Maybe a nerf is not the best solution but all ideas are welcome. If you reduced MS by 100%, give it and year and we are back at square one. I feel as if motherships and planets are too consistent, they add too much power consistently. You could add planet blockers ect.
No matter what path you go down, motherships & planets are always going to be the main drive in this game that people will work on.
A big covert or anti covert level doesn't affect losses like a mothership/planet does, just means with them you have to train more uu to get the desired result if your a lower level.
Adding a planet blocker is silly sorry to say, how would you aqquire it?
Then what is to stop big accounts having this said planet blocker & hitting accounts without it, then basically your making the smaller accounts even more helpless then they were before.
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: Boosting new account is always a good thing for an old turn based game, I like the idea of implementing more alliance functionality. Paying 200t alliance bank for 35 covert boost, 400t for 37 covert boost, 500t for 38 covert boost. This way alliances will focus on building naq and keeping active. You could implement 200t naq + alliance G&r, alliance members need to be in top 30 for 15 days ect for 10k g&r. This is just an idea, the next question is how do we help lone wolfs then, well you will need to get G&R as well but compete against alliances, it also costs less maybe.
I like the idea of putting the alliance bank to use for something, but it would have to be something for the alliance not individual accounts.
In theory here what would stop someone with a bigger account using said alliance bank for themselves & its easier for certain people then in bigger alliances with more members (TAF/DDE/OE) to choose certain members & jump ahead of all those in the smaller alliances whom do not have the member base to generate such a large alliance income.
Also on that last note, whats to stop a big player sitting there with 1Q naq just banking and banking on 4% to build up the bank which is essentially putting $$ into an alliance bank for individual use.
Maybe something to think about for an alliance bank use would be maybe another an extra alliance PPT for 50T naq or something along those lines, I just think having the alliance bank for individual use could be exploited.
~Dä Vinci~ wrote: We need to help speed up the account building for people a lot smaller, I can appreciate people spending 100's and I don't want it to be a quick fix, 100t for 40 covert ect. You have to work hard for any change.
Now you're getting somewhere, WE NEED to help the new players/small accounts that don't have time to farm a huge amount nor the money to buy naq.
I have put together a list of things I personally think would be beneficial for everyone.

1) Motherships do not need to be touched, they are fine as they are.
Like I said in a battle with another mothership of similar stats/slightly bigger then they cancel each other out.
Yes it costs more to mass a big mothership, but the rebuild cost for those big motherships is also expensive, that is why I stopped rebuilding mine 2-3x a day for you lot because plain & simply it became too expensive for me to do so.
So there is always two sides to the story in that regard.

Changing motherships for everyone by reducing how big they are & how effective they are will have no effect on the current situation what so ever, its basically being in the same situation but with smaller numbers because there will still be gaps between the big accounts & the smaller accounts regardless of what you do with motherships.

2) Planets I do agree on this actually, I would personally like to see a change in the amount of uu needed to max out/fully utilize your planets.
Atleast double (even triple) what it is now, this makes it more expensive for bigger accounts to mass people (I dont think the effectiveness/kill/lose ratio needs to be touched) but the amount of uu required should increase.
It will promote bigger builds & with people standing to lose more uu they will quite possibly train more spys etc.
I think a change like this could breath new life into the planets saga, no need to limit the amount of one type of planet because like I said before people will just dump 5 planets, sit with 5 attack planets and basically not build a defence & just use attack.
Then also this does not require people to buy merlins from the BM as MT's/PPT would suffice so there is income lost there for the admin team should they go down this path (not saying everyone would do this, but its a possibility).

3) Helping new/older players with small accounts in a MUST.
Like I said above reducing everyones mothership will address this issue in no way, will be like throwing a pebble at a concrete wall.
What I propose in this regard is reduce the cost to get to a 15-20T mothership by half (Yes 50%), this then reduces the time/resources needed to be somewhat competitive.
It is the only way the gap will be closed to an extent, something similar could be done with covert/anti covert levels say up until level 38 (I wont say 39 because then it makes it too easy to get to level 39 for the last ascension).
Hell, if the admin team wanted to get adventurous then they could even explore this with planets as well although I feel this could be exploited and too hard to police so probably not worth the thought.

But in regards to motherships/covert/anti covert levels then reducing costs for small members are a must to help close the gaps, but with that you also run the risk of people whom dont play by the rules using this as an excuse to make illegal multis and getting them to a decent level (mothership/covert/anti covert wise) and sniping with them which is the last thing we need, this is why I dont think the ascension process should be sped up in anyway.
It is already sped up for the first 10 ascensions i think it is where you gain 2 GNR where you would normally gain 1 at that rank.

Another negative on this matter is say you do make it half price for those to get to a 20T mothership, then the guys with 20-30T motherships are the ones that lose out to a degree.
But I'm sure they would enjoy the challenge of having more people to have battles against.

So over all what I propose is: (in the short version, no essay lol)

1) leave motherships as they are
2) Increase the amount of uu needed to fully utilise planets (atleast by double what it is now)
3) Make it cheaper for smaller guys to catch up via cheaper mothership upgrades & cheaper covert/ac levels (to a point)

In my eyes, this is the ONLY way the gap will start to close.
You cant expect small guys to turn around one day and all have 40t motherships with little work, make it easier for them to a point & then things go back to normal for them.
It might also help with if we do get new people, it may help them want to stick around.
At the moment it takes far too much naq to build a mothership from 0-20T if your just starting out.


But in making judgement, just remember all those guys who are not $$ spending whom have built up planets/their mothership over the years by long hours farming that do not have the luxury of spending $$, by trying to make it harder for $$ spenders you are also giving them a kick in the face.
That is also something to remember.

Also with ryu's idea about mothership percentages, when I was massing da vinci flat out even though my mothership is bigger then his I was losing more shields on each hit.
I was only more effective because my strike was blowing through his defence (but the prick fixed that by making his shields bigger lol)
So I dont think this is really necessary.
But yeah at the moment for me I can spend **Filtered** on my mothership and get next to no benefit, thats how expensive it gets but thats understandable because thats what happens when things evolve over time.
You can't spoon feed people, but I feel my ideas above will help even the game out to a degree, $$ spenders will always maintain a gap & so they should.


hope you enjoyed your essay
Until next time kids :smt025
Power Through Discipline
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