Drugs

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Re: Drugs

Post by [BoT] Jason » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:36 pm

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Re: Drugs

Post by Sol » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am

Sylus wrote:And before anyone argues the fact that drug taking can lead to other crimes. The simple fact is they do, and they do because they're expensive. And they're expensive because they're illegal. This is a self reinforcing system that needs to be broken.

* runs in *
True to an extent, but the addictive nature of some drugs, chemically or by mentality, more or less undermines the reasoning behind expense driving crime based efforts.
Expensive or not, people would still commit crime to get their high. I suspect you could easily construct a tree diagram with drug users falling back to other cheaper methods to get high, and continuing down, and down.
People only have so much money, and if they can't buy the legalized high (like alcohol) they will find another way.

In fact I think it may fall the other way, more crimes will be committed because they would be legitimate.

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Re: Drugs

Post by RoKeT » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:33 am

lol hehehehehe pissed ya off I see :p, kinda what I was trying to do sorry HAHHAHAHAHA couldn't resist :p

but Hunt I don't think we've ever had problems why be so personal LMAO again sorry had to yank the chain...

Do I honestly think Marijuana shoudl be legalized... yes... but thats because I smoke to calm my nerve's, to help with stress, and to stop from being aggressive and violent. with out it I have a past, one I'd rather not talk about amongst people that know me, but the point is I did things I thought differently before I started back up. I haven't been in a fight since, it makes me want to play more games with my daughter (allows me to concentrate for longer times on boring games :p (no offense to my daughter but she's not a champ at chutes and ladder's lol)). there are negative consquences to it of course, I know I'm addicted I smoke everyday and when I don't I get irritable and dis complacent.

Sorry for revin the old engine Hunt... Couldn't resist :p
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Re: Drugs

Post by shane w » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:23 am

weed and alcohol should be switched..make alcohol illegal and weed legal :p thats mine and my whole familys opinion :)

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Re: Drugs

Post by Legendary Apophis » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:15 am

I'm rather surprised to see that many hardcore defenders to such drug. Anyway, I'm glad Netherlands finally decided to ban access for foreigners to its coffee shops in some regions, might reduce the weed drug trafficking a bit in Germany and Belgium, getting quite critical apparently according to reports I have read about it. Not to mention the "mix" being used so often by drug-makers, trying to get people addicted to other drugs.
People who believe legalizing it will miraculously solve all problems of quality and trafficking are rather naive. As if it would lead to a nationwide redemption and people go seek calmly legal jobs in the office. Legal or illegal, underworld will still control the business. There's already trafficking with legal tobacco (poor quality cheap tobacco being successful) how on Earth do people believe legalizing it would make things better?

As for switching alcohol and weed legalization, I think you didn't read about what the difference was within and without prohibition within America. Alcohol couldn't get you addicted to other drugs, that's what differs with others, and why it's not interesting as much to underworld when legalized as when it's illegal.

But, I don't see the need to get at each others throats for such a debate...
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Re: Drugs

Post by shane w » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:06 am

yeah but what if alcohol was illegal. there are prob more alcohol drinkers than weed smokers right? what if alcohol was illegal and we stopped making it. then im sure it would be popular to sell. it may not be addicting to some but i know i wld pay for alcohol if i could get it if it was illegal. just a thought

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Re: Drugs

Post by Juliette » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:15 am

shane w wrote:yeah but what if alcohol was illegal. there are prob more alcohol drinkers than weed smokers right? what if alcohol was illegal and we stopped making it. then im sure it would be popular to sell. it may not be addicting to some but i know i wld pay for alcohol if i could get it if it was illegal. just a thought
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Re: Drugs

Post by shane w » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:22 am

Huntalaar wrote:
Juliette wrote:Clearly you were smoking bad marijuana. There are no bad side effects to good marijuana.
However, your 'symptoms' seem to be symptoms of a Calvinistic mind; "Careful! You must not enjoy yourself! OMG, the police will arrest me!" ;)

Amusement abounds.


No., ill argue against an unedcuated mind anyday, I have smoked way more weed than i would bet you have, off a lot of different people, like rocket, you have told me you know what i went though and why it happened. No.? was it weed that made you did that? There are side affects, just google will tell you that, as ive said, marijuana, anxiety, depression, panic attacks, IVE EXPERIENCED AS IVE JUST SAID, like id believe what you've said you attention seeking SOB, No.? Im basing my post in real life experiences, and ill put you in the catagory of kids who think they are cool from getting high, like i used to when i was 17, shut up, be yourself, post real experiences and when all them are verified ill believe you, why/how would i make this up, ill link someone like harchester to the guy that got put in preston mental health unit and print screen it for him to put here? Sick of you **Filtered** attention seeking idiots, THESE ARE MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, NOT MADE UP **Filtered** LIKE YOURS, googling cannabis side affects is all it takes to prove you wrong, do you want me to provide some links of the side affects recorded on the net big balls?

I used to get high and watch family guy, i used to get high and listen to dubstep, i used to get high and daydream at my living room wall thinking about **Filtered** for hours at a time, i used to get high and find it hard to socialise and meet new people,

ANYONE, who is a stoner will know these points above^ No.

sounds like you let the weed get the best of you man, weed is great, i dont smoke it cuz i think its cool like you said you did when you were 17, i smoke it (beside the fact that its great) because doing its relaxing, it can make me more sociable around people, and idc what anyone thinks of me when im doing it, bc i dnt care wat anyone thinks about me and my pot. of course if im carrying and see a cop i will get nervous, you just always have to stay positive

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Re: Drugs

Post by shane w » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:26 am

well something needs to happen with alcohol. you really just need to know when to smoke/drink/ or do any other drugs and when not to. weed is not addictive, at least not to me..theres a time and place for everything

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Re: Drugs

Post by Ryuujin Jakka » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:49 am

mate . i know what your through . been there . but your daughter will be the biggest influence you will ever have in your life . be that funny guy . be yourself and everything your daughter will be . gotta.fight for what.you want my friend

if you ever need a chat . hook.me.up ryuujin-jakka@hotmail.co.uk . email me if.im not on ill try get.on soon as

peace bro

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Re: Drugs

Post by Ryuujin Jakka » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:54 am

MEZZANINE wrote:
Mathlord wrote:This is why I've never drank, smoked or done drugs :P I personally don't want to be dependent on some mind-altering substance to have a good time...I like actually being me when I do things.


Nowadays I tend to do activities instead, karting, quading, paintball etc etc done them all, BUT I can only do that today because they are more available now and I have more money now. There is a very good reason that poorer people use drugs, they are a very cheap and for many the only affordable form of entertainment & fun. And TBH as I stated above the risk of injury or death is higher on the activities I do today than they were with the recreational drugs I took in my youth.


My concern is that every generation has it's own drug boom.

60s had LSD
70s had Speed
80s had Cocaine
90s had Es
2000+ seems to be 'legal highs', always a joke in the past but now all kinds of freaky chemicals. Surely it would be better to allow people to use the drugs that people know the effects of than have a generation of Guinea Pigs taking god knows what.


and there is a **Filtered** load of crazy "legal" steroids popping out too . unknown effects and **Filtered** lol
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Re: Drugs

Post by Sylus » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:57 pm

Sol wrote:* runs in *
True to an extent, but the addictive nature of some drugs, chemically or by mentality, more or less undermines the reasoning behind expense driving crime based efforts.
Expensive or not, people would still commit crime to get their high. I suspect you could easily construct a tree diagram with drug users falling back to other cheaper methods to get high, and continuing down, and down.
People only have so much money, and if they can't buy the legalized high (like alcohol) they will find another way.

In fact I think it may fall the other way, more crimes will be committed because they would be legitimate.


How? I don't hear large amount of crime motivated by people trying to buy a pack of cigarettes, or a couple of beers. I could be entirely wrong, but from what I've read, the only correlation between crime (I am discounting random crime, or crime under the influence which could likely be argued would not matter what intoxicant is at play) and any form of illicit drug is to pay for a habit, which is ultimately more expensive in the illegal realm. Additionally, as it's illicit there's an attached social stigma for those who are addicted, which lessens their ability to seek professional help. Whilst stigma is attached to all forms of addiction, when dealing with an illegal substance, it is heightened.

Legendary Apophis wrote:I'm rather surprised to see that many hardcore defenders to such drug. Anyway, I'm glad Netherlands finally decided to ban access for foreigners to its coffee shops in some regions, might reduce the weed drug trafficking a bit in Germany and Belgium, getting quite critical apparently according to reports I have read about it. Not to mention the "mix" being used so often by drug-makers, trying to get people addicted to other drugs.
People who believe legalizing it will miraculously solve all problems of quality and trafficking are rather naive. As if it would lead to a nationwide redemption and people go seek calmly legal jobs in the office. Legal or illegal, underworld will still control the business. There's already trafficking with legal tobacco (poor quality cheap tobacco being successful) how on Earth do people believe legalizing it would make things better?

As for switching alcohol and weed legalization, I think you didn't read about what the difference was within and without prohibition within America. Alcohol couldn't get you addicted to other drugs, that's what differs with others, and why it's not interesting as much to underworld when legalized as when it's illegal.

But, I don't see the need to get at each others throats for such a debate...


I'll largely ignore the "gateway" drug paradigm because I always hate slippery slope arguments, which ultimately prove false anyway (it's a fear mongering argument, let's be fair)

But you're discounting the fact that prohibition is an absolute failure on every level. Hell just focusing on something like cost, the amount of money the world governments pour into maintaining the illegal status is mind boggling.

I'd argue three points to this. One, whilst you are most likely right that legalising any illicit drugs would not completely eradicate the illegal trade, but I'd like you to argue how it wouldn't have a massive impact on it.

Second, well if you're against legalisation, what are your thoughts on at least decriminalisation?

And finally, I'll bring up what Mezzanine argued earlier. Do you take issue when governments intervene largely on what is simply individual freedom which this arguable is. On what grounds do you think this is ok? If you have an individual that is educated, aware of the risks of drug taking, poses no larger threat to society by taking drugs. Why does a government stop this. It seems both idiotic and intrusive. Essentially they pass laws all the time that impede me as an individual, for no reason other than:
We the Government believe the public is stupid, and unable to make their own choices, and thus we feel justified in preventing them from doing so.

I know that sounds cynical, but the sheer amount of laws that prevent individual freedom on "benevolent" or "Moral" grounds is obnoxious. You can't buy too many vitamins because you'll take to many and die. You can't marry in a same sex marriage because it's immoral. etc etc. I'm sure off the top of your head you can come up with more. But why do we think it's ok to legislate like this?
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Re: Drugs

Post by Kjarkur » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:16 pm

Alcohol has taken more of my friends and family then drugs.

My friends that got addicted to drugs were much quicker to recover and beat their addiction then the alcoholics I know. In fact, one died from withdraw of alcohol (Yes that is very much possible and happens more often then you'd think) and a very close family member is a mental case after alcohol abuse).

I'm in NO way saying drugs are in any way good so please don't go there. I'm merely pointing out that alcohol can be just as dangerous yet very much legal and considered sometimes fancy and cool.

I'am extremely proud of those that fight their addiction and come out as victors! You can be very proud of yourselves. I've helped many of my friends and a few in my family to overcome it and am amazed at their strength.

During the era where I struggled and did a lot of partying - the only time I saw people truly become monsters, was when they were drunk.

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Re: Drugs

Post by Z E R O » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:55 pm

Kjarkur wrote:During the era where I struggled and did a lot of partying - the only time I saw people truly become monsters, was when they were drunk.

-KJ


Yes, find me a single person who smokes a joint and goes home and beats their wife or children, or find me some cases of people getting behind a wheel while stoned and killing a whole family, or a case of someone getting "marijuana posioning" that caused them to be hospitalized. Any of you can give me any evidence of any things like this happening, I'd gladly drop my stance on marijuana. Though I bet you could find a whole lot of examples of alcohol causing those very things.. hmm.. I don't understand why people still don't get what the real bad guy is here...
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Re: Drugs

Post by Slim87R » Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:19 am

Juliette wrote:Clearly you were smoking bad marijuana. There are no bad side effects to good marijuana.
However, your 'symptoms' seem to be symptoms of a Calvinistic mind; "Careful! You must not enjoy yourself! OMG, the police will arrest me!" ;)

Amusement abounds.


That is actually false. smoking anything is bad. Smoke wreaks havoc on your lungs and will eventually cause cancer, even with good weed. However, ingested via other methods weed is not bad for you and actually shows great health potential. Some call it the tree of life. Just don't smoke it if you are looking at it from a health stance.
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