Parralel universe

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Deaths_Rider
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Parralel universe

Post by Deaths_Rider » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:48 pm

ok so me and ashu are going to have a serious(ish) debate he sugested parralel universes so the debate will be

"Conservation of energy is grossly violated if every instant infinite amounts of new matter are generated as speculated by the many worlds theory."

standed three posts each judged by whoever cares enough to post once we finish ashu can pick pro or neg and go first it will finish when it finishes i'll try to post a response daily but may get busy good luck and lets go
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Re: Parralel universe

Post by Ashu » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:59 pm

I'm gonna have to be on the neg side there...The amount of dark matter created in order to sustain a newly born universe is 0.Parallel universes are self suficient through the sequential frequencies that creat it.Its like a bubble of matter that keeps expanding.Energy and matter allready exist as part of the enviroment.Light is the only thing that make this and just about every universe expand(certain unniverses can exist without light).

I hope this is a good argument for starters and await the judgement of Semper and Universe! :D
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Re: Parralel universe

Post by Deaths_Rider » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:46 am

ok by sequential frequencys i'm assuming you refering to the idea that the partical wave function is in fact a real thing and the partical is imaginary as opposed to the currently held real particle imaginary function. while impossible to prove(for now) a real partical is much more likely as wave partical duality shows waves may not even exist but rather just particles and our thinking that the two are different is the wrong assumption.

as for dark matter there is currently a PHD student who is close to disproving it's existance without breaking a single law of physics just by re-examing the supossed starting conditions of the universe

as for the universe expanding. and i would like to keep to our universe (as "certian" universes are purely theortical. a theroy based on therorical assumptions which are based real assumption far too much assuming and theroy there to take seriously for now) while it is expaning it is also becoming less dense so no problem with conservation of matter or energy which are the same thing but in different form.

if you assume parralell universes can suddenly appear all of a sudden energy is created this is a gross violation of conservation of energy which states energy can be niether created or destroyed so such instant branching universes if you will are uterly against the laws of physics.
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Re: Parralel universe

Post by Semper » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:02 pm

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Re: Parralel universe

Post by Ashu » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:36 am

Sorry guys i was really busy as Easter for me was just a day ago.I'll post when i can...
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Re: Parralel universe

Post by GhostyGoo » Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:07 pm

I would like to ask this:

Which do you consider to be the older, the laws of physics or the matters which it claims to describe?

I know what i am doing is considered a little rude in debating circles but i rarely play by the rules so i'm going to go right ahead and say it. It's my belief that empirical methodology has begun to forget it's fundamental difference to experimental methodology.

That said, i would consider the newer "systemic" sciences which are becoming ever popular. The arguments here seem very reductionistic. It's perfectly acceptable to say that in our universe energy cannot be created or destroyed but we have no real idea of what that actually means! Let's be pedantic for a moment, for grins if nothing else, and assume that the entire universe as we know it was once a cell-like something containing a bunch of code for a program. At this stage the program had no reader and was essentially nonsense. Everything that was not this nonsense was "other" and one property of the other was an innate probability. This probability was a fuzzy "other than nonsense" which was able to read the nonsense. As soon as the probability arose the fuzzy something made sense of the nonsense and everything which was written in the program began coming into being, relentlessly.

Where was the energy? I believe the energy was not in the program. I believe it was in the fuzzy probability. We could possibly call it light. The metaphor, of course, is as old as ages themselves - to shed light on a matter brings it into a clearer view!

Sorry, i know, i've always been a polemicist.

The Law of Conservation can only tell you that the universe has no end and no beginning, it can only ever transform from one state to another. Before our current state of being the energy was still there, then. So, energy can take the form of anything, everything and even nothing. Sartre quite rightly points out that a HUGE amount of "being" is used up in nothingness. What he is saying, basically, is that we as beings constantly ask ourselves questions which can only ever be answered in terms of negation.

"M.Laporte says that an abstraction is made when something not capable of existing in isolation is thought of as in an isolated state."
-Sartre, Being and Nothingness

A simpler example is the question "is Vic here?". You are going to the pub to meet your friend Vic. You arrive at the pub, the place designated as the-place-where-Vic-will-be and at the precise time designated as the-time-Vic-will-be-in-the-place-where-Vic-will-be. These two very deterministic states are being heavily relied upon for this meeting, yes? However, on arriving at the pub you face those two laws and ask them the question, "is Vic here?". Why did the question arise? We've come to an indeterministic state. The process which follows is essential to our current paradigm. What happens is thus - you begin to scan the laws and nihilate every inch of them until nothing is left and you realise "No". Vic is not here. For unimportant reasons he has disobeyed the laws and brought the whole experience into question. During the process of discerning this you negated every possible state of being in the room. You looked into the face of every last person and, with scant regard for their laws and their apparently deterministic states, you nihilated every last one of them with impunity in order to deduce your answer.

It is my belief that, in matters as deep as this, we should be very careful about how we treat the being when asking it for answers of such importance.

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