Game Balance Suggestions

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S1eepy
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Game Balance Suggestions

I have a few ideas for era themes, which would be interesting, but would require a lot of work..

So maybe I'll start with a few more basic ideas, that would make Q more balanced, but wouldnt need as much coding to implement.

Reduce power of USS
Important change would be making USSs less powerful.
I understand they need to give enough of a bonus to be an enticing prospect for potential customers, and I accept that players who don't pay will be at a disadvantage, but this should not be a pay-to-win game, which it is this era


Turns / Income & Gould Race Bonus
Currently we get 1080 turns per day (600 from MT and 480 natural growth)
Our income is worth approx 100 turns /day (a decent income currently is 500m = 24b per day. Farms are averaging above 3b, so would need 80 ATs to get the same naq from farming, I rounded up to 100 to make it easier)

This has been a slow change over the years, from income being one of the most important things, to almost insignificant for most people. This is a negative side effect of a different change (Inactives growth being based on TOP UP, as well as autotraining miners, which keep the inactives more juicy, and more viable, as the era progresses.)

I cant see a simple solution to making individual income more important (although I can see a more complicated solution - see below) because I would not like to reduce the growth or the income on inactive accounts, as that is the lifeblood of our income.

But another problem caused by income being less significant, is that the gould race have lost their competitive edge. If we use my figures from above, where we generate 1080 turns per day, and income is only worth 100 turns, gould are gaining an extra 20 turns per day. Which is a bit crap.
I would suggest changing their race bonus from +20% income, to +10% turn generation.
So a Gould would get 1,128 turns per day (600 + 528) which is 48 more than everyone else, and would be just over doubling their current effective bonus.

This would make them more of an option when trying to decide which race would be the best to choose if you were trying to win the era. Perhaps it would become less dominated by Replicators, although, Repli may still have the edge, even with a change like this.


Unit Production Link
Another change, that would improve things (imo) would be to completely remove the link between top UP and the cost of UP.
I know you have just fixed it, and made it actually work how it should, so taking it out would probably make you sad xP But I think it is unnecessary for the game as it is now. It was originally introduced as a way of limiting the power of feeding, or at least slightly leveling the field for everyone else.

But it currently promotes passive play. Waiting for others to push up the Top UP, so you can benefit from the discount. This is a particular advantage to those with big banks (like me). But I would still like to see it removed.


Mercs
I think mercenarys should just be removed. They dont serve any real purpose, except at the end of the era, when one person buys all of them and gains a small advantage when it comes to their attack and defense cost.



Thats it (for now) of the simple changes ^^
but have 1 more compicated idea to go with it

Refine Income
Naquadah can be "refined" to create more of it. But it is a very new process, and can only be done when the naquadah is freshly mined. Once the naq has been banked, or mixed with naq stolen from other players the refinement becomes completely ineffectual.

Mechanically, there would have to be a button (maybe on the banking page or base page?) that when pressed multiplies the players current naq by the refinement multiplier
The refinement multiplier could be a set value (I like x5) or it could be a a variable (say a new tech) that can be upgraded.

As far as coding goes, the "refinement button" would need to keep track of when the player attacks, and banks. So that it only refines if all the naq on hand is player generated income. Could do this by say toggling to "NO" when;
the player attacks
uses the bank
sells weapons
uses the market
buys a supporter function
presses the refinement button
(any other way that can affect the naq on hand?).

The "refine button" would only toggle back to "YES" when the players naq on hand is 0.

That way when the player comes to press the "refinement button" it would do nothing if set to "NO". And would only be functional when the naq held by the player is entirely their own income.

Like I said, more complex code wise, but not impossible =)

This would make income much more valuable, but would not increase, or decrease the value of the inactive farms. It would also make farming active players have a more profound effect (you dont get more naq, but they effectively lose 5x of what you take).

Right, thats enough for now, but I'm sure I can think of more things if you dont like these ^^
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Neimenljivi
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Re: Next Era - Suggestions

Changing the bonus of Goa'ulds from income to ATs won't do anything. It was fine the last era, the only thing that punishes Goa'ulds more is the cost to untrain miners. Last era, ...., I was earning 10 ATs worth of income per turn. True, in the end, it did cost me a lot to untrain miners (which is the only thing that should be removed, imho), but the bonus itself is good as it is. No need to change something that ain't broken, you just have to know how to play with it.
As for the refine income - just another feature you want added that will demand a roll-back once you properly abuse it which we all know will happen sooner rather than later.

I like your suggestion, Clockwork, but I fear it will be one that's too easily abused ... - making it a one horse race yet again.


***

A few hours later, discussion on cheating is still closed.
Last edited by Caprila on Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Removed spam
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Haz wrote:It took a bit of time, but the investigation has now been completed.
S1eepy will be banned for scripting, for the remainder of this era.
Name: S1eepy [ TheCheekyChickens ]
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S1eepy
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Re: Next Era - Suggestions

Lol, so you think the idea is bad? Or you just want to accuse me of exploiting a theoretical aspect to the game?

I guess you just enjoy moaning. But if you read what I posted, you will see I tried to find all the possible ways you can change your naq on hand and make sure that stops the refinement from working. I am actually trying to ensure it's not exploitable. But I guess moaning is more your thing. So have fun with that.

Though of another thing that affects your naq though;
Selling mercs. So add that to the list of things that would stop refinement
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The Doctor
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

Split out game suggestions to new topic.
Formerly known as Haz

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Ĕɱƿŷ wrote:So I heard that when becoming a moderator you are subjected to hours and hours of "The Forum is good, the Forum is great, we surrender our will as of this date".

that is incorrect... nothing resembling prostration...

Forced labor on the other hand........ :sge
SuperSaiyan says (2:04 PM):
*that was kernal potter
*colonel
*wow I just made that typo

SuperSaiyan says (2:05 PM):
*no one will speak of this
*or I take muff's veggies away
*and he starves
Hope says (2:59 AM):
*hypothetically, how bad would it be if i descended someone... but forgot to Godquest them first, and they're active, and in an active alliance...
Hope says (3:00 AM):
*hypothetically...
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*ah **Filtered** why am i descended....
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S1eepy
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

Wow you seem a little on tilt there Jack... I dont recall saying that my idea was perfect, I was just making a suggestion as requested by Haz. (albeit not quite the Next Era Suggestion he was looking for)
Its an idea, if you read my post, you will see I even asked if anyone else could think of a way naq on hand can be altered. I know it needs work, but thats what discussion is for.

You seem to be accusing me of doing nothing but exploiting the game.. when infact the 2 cases you are alluding to I didn't exploit any bugs, and I was always reporting them to admin.
1. The gambling era
That was not bug exploitation, it was the era theme. Admin Jason just didnt realise how much naq it was going to make available. He was told (in the admin meeting, by me as well as others) and decided not to change anything. He made the choice to leave the era as it was.
Only after a few weeks, when the numbers became so large they broke the game, did he decide he would have to end it early.

2. Era 19 rollback.
There was a bug in the coding that allowed crazy amounts of naq to be gained under certain circumstances. But the circumstances were "luck" based. (The era actually had a luck variable implemented, and the bonus naq on "lucky" hit was intended, but it was intendd to be 100x the naq, but the bug made it 10,000x the naq.) I never got one of these lucky hits, but I was especially active, so I managed to farm other people who had got "Lucky" hits, before they could spend all their naq. Which gave me the lead.

You actually seemed to agree with what was done at the time, so its interesting that you have changed your tune so drastically...
Neimenljivi wrote:I am not really sure if you should be angry with S1eepy and Bilbao, admin, or thankful to them
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Edit: Jacks post seems to have disappeared. Maybe thats for the best and we can concentrate on moving forward.
Edit2: Your new avatar would seem to explain matters.
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bob the dog
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

what about ppt? one could hit ppt for 2 days us/uss for 2 more days with out touching on hand naq then 4 days of income some 100bx5 =500b in 4 days assuming you get 25b per day from income at what ever point in the game :)
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

All good ideas :D

@bob: I could set it so it doesn't apply on PPT, or at a reduced rate.
Formerly known as Haz

Nine out of ten doctors recommend going to an amusement park this weekend.
The Tenth Doctor doesn't want to go.
Spoiler
CC Leader: n haz thsi time it wasnt ur fault
Bralor wrote:hey haz how long do you estimate until someone blames you and masses HVE again?
Field Marshall wrote:On a seperate issue - where is Haz? He's the glue we really need right now!
SuperSaiyan wrote:I'm a staff member so naturally I'm used to unjustified abusive commentary, so really I don't mind ;)
Zeratul wrote:
Ĕɱƿŷ wrote:So I heard that when becoming a moderator you are subjected to hours and hours of "The Forum is good, the Forum is great, we surrender our will as of this date".

that is incorrect... nothing resembling prostration...

Forced labor on the other hand........ :sge
SuperSaiyan says (2:04 PM):
*that was kernal potter
*colonel
*wow I just made that typo

SuperSaiyan says (2:05 PM):
*no one will speak of this
*or I take muff's veggies away
*and he starves
Hope says (2:59 AM):
*hypothetically, how bad would it be if i descended someone... but forgot to Godquest them first, and they're active, and in an active alliance...
Hope says (3:00 AM):
*hypothetically...
Murris says (3:00 AM):
*ah **Filtered** why am i descended....
Angnoch Freddie says:
i hate being a mod...
i just wanted the blue color XD
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S1eepy
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

ah yes, forgot PPT, I dont use it much these days so easy to over look ^^.

I'd suggest half rate while on PPT - give people more of an incentive to ditch the PPT and just be active to keep all their naq. But if you really need the PPT, its not crippling. (Just need to make sure you cant just save naq while on PPT, wait for PPT to end then refine for full value)

Although, you can always be active enough to come online, refine naq, bank, repeat 4 or 5 times a day to keep all the naq anyway. PPT just makes it one large refinement instead of lots of small refinements for the same total value.

Could always make refinement only available once a day? So people would have to try and leave their naq out as long as possible to get the most reward. Risking having others take it, but potentially getting a greater bonus?
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Corkscrew
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

Well for a start, unlimited techs has too be a given. It add's alot of diversity at the end, its far too linear atm without reaching max ascension levels.

Reducing naq on ppt for me isnt a great idea, too spend your turns prior too going on ppt, and what you'd gain after via income probably balances out with the growth rate on farms. But its all about timing, you can pretty much work out when the farms are about too expand, it would only punish those who ppt at the wrong time. But i guess 'supporting' the game keeps the servers online. Still need too give those a slight advantage if its done right.

I would like a new feature brought into the game, i feel a skill training over time(aka takes 3days too achieve the rank after paying the requirements as an example) would be ideal as its a more thought out approach too the game, have it require a set amount of naq and UP. Force people too grow their army, or perhaps drop the naq requirement and change it too g&r. However it might result in repeatidly massing people too stunt their progress.

I strongly support having g&r affecting the game somehow, but not too such an extent that its completely OP. Some of us just dont have the option of sitting at a PC all day at work.
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Ronon Dex
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

I like the idea of having ancient techs. Having say 7 steal-able techs that give a boost to certain stats.

Bit like in the show everyone was always searching for ancient/new technologies to overcome their enemies with.

For instance

Each tech would provide a bonus to 1 stat. I don't do math or working out but i would imagine something alone the lines of.

Ancient Asgard beam tech 20% bonus to Mothership attack
Replicator Nano Coding 20% bonus to unit production
Goa'uld mind control knowledge 20% bonus to income
Puddle jumper Tech 20% bonus to covert skill

Ect etc etc lots of different options. 1 for each stat.

These items Would be Spy-able ie. can be seen on a successful covert report.

They would be seeded through out the game randomly so inactive and actives could receive them at the start.

They can be steal-able and can be stacked. So 1 player could indeed hold all of the techs, but weather the galaxy would allow such a powerful being to exist is yet to be seen.

Obviously i have plucked random percentages out of the air, it would obviously need to be properly balanced and bug free.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Please move my post to the correct thread...

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=202688
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S1eepy
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

A similar idea has been used in the past - the "stones of power" gave players massive boost to income/up/other stats based on who held them. But when one player managed to get all 4 stones, then take the maximum 8 day PPT.. there was no way he could be caught. So have to be careful with bonuses like that.

Although I do like the idea of a tech you can take from others..
something along the lines of;
We have an "Level of Ancient Knowledge" (which would be leveled up more like a spy level, not a traditional tech) level 1 +10% attack
level 2 +10% defence
level 3 +10% covert
level 4 +10% MS power
level 5 +10% income
level 6 +10% UP
level 7 +20% attack
level 8 +20% def
level 9 +20% covert
level 10 +20% MS power
level 11 +20% income
level 12 +20% UP
level 13 +30% attack....
you get the idea The upgrades would be exponentially more expensive (like spy levels) but their unique feature - would be that you can get a discount in price, in relation to how many other peoples "Ancient Knowledge" you have seen.

So when you spy someone, you have a chance at gaining "Ancient Insight". Each point of "Ancient Insight" gets you 1% discount on your next level cost - up to a maximum of.. say 75%?

Your likelihood of gaining Ancient Insight from a spy attempt increases depending on how good your covert is compared to their covert (like seeing any stat). And the amount of Ancient Insight you gain is dependant on their Ancient Knowledge Level compared to yours.
So if your Ancient levels are eqaul - you can only gain 1 Ancient Insight per spy (and if possible per person/per day)
if their level is lower than yours, you cant gain any ancient insight.
If their level is 1 higher than yours - you can get a max of 2 Insight.
If their level is 6 higher than yours - you can get a max of 7 Insight.
etc.

When you level up your Ancient Knowledge - your Ancient Insight returns to 0 - and you have to start collecting it again if you want the discount.
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Ronon Dex
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Re: Game Balance Suggestions

S1eepy wrote:A similar idea has been used in the past - the "stones of power" gave players massive boost to income/up/other stats based on who held them. But when one player managed to get all 4 stones, then take the maximum 8 day PPT.. there was no way he could be caught. So have to be careful with bonuses like that.

Although I do like the idea of a tech you can take from others..
something along the lines of;
We have an "Level of Ancient Knowledge" (which would be leveled up more like a spy level, not a traditional tech) level 1 +10% attack
level 2 +10% defence
level 3 +10% covert
level 4 +10% MS power
level 5 +10% income
level 6 +10% UP
level 7 +20% attack
level 8 +20% def
level 9 +20% covert
level 10 +20% MS power
level 11 +20% income
level 12 +20% UP
level 13 +30% attack....
you get the idea The upgrades would be exponentially more expensive (like spy levels) but their unique feature - would be that you can get a discount in price, in relation to how many other peoples "Ancient Knowledge" you have seen.

So when you spy someone, you have a chance at gaining "Ancient Insight". Each point of "Ancient Insight" gets you 1% discount on your next level cost - up to a maximum of.. say 75%?

Your likelihood of gaining Ancient Insight from a spy attempt increases depending on how good your covert is compared to their covert (like seeing any stat). And the amount of Ancient Insight you gain is dependant on their Ancient Knowledge Level compared to yours.
So if your Ancient levels are equal - you can only gain 1 Ancient Insight per spy (and if possible per person/per day)
if their level is lower than yours, you cant gain any ancient insight.
If their level is 1 higher than yours - you can get a max of 2 Insight.
If their level is 6 higher than yours - you can get a max of 7 Insight.
etc.

When you level up your Ancient Knowledge - your Ancient Insight returns to 0 - and you have to start collecting it again if you want the discount.
I like the idea of having extra powers you steal from others, im not sure spying on people to get discount on and extra power is all that exciting. EDIT: Unless you could base the reduction on ME. Now that would be interesting.

I just like the idea of people fighting and getting massed over upgrades. maybe the stone idea could be revamped to something similar to i have suggested, but put something in place where you couldn't have PPT (even from ss/uss) if you have certain stone or a number of stones. Or maybe even put in a different attack that does not take naq or units that will hit through PPT and only take stones.
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