mercs/army size

To discuss, debate, suggest improvements on, or ask to rollback, enhancements released to the game.
User avatar
Rocky
Tollan
Posts: 3201
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:10 pm
Alliance: The Legion
Race: Italian Stallion

Re: mercs/army size

Rodwolf wrote:
[BoT] Jason wrote:Wouldn't it only have the effect of making mercs on par with supers?

As yes you can get twice the units now but mercs only have half the power out put...



I think this is indeed the way you have to look at it. A normal unit has the potential to make a 'super' out of it so it's indeed stronger as a merc. Hence why I find it a logic idea to count a merc only as a half unit.

how is it in any way at all, logical for you to say 1 merc counts as 0.5 people???

mercs are not so powerful because they are cheap as dirt and very very quick to acquire, thats always been the case. But 1 merc still is 1 person.

I think you took jason's point the wrong way, 1 merc should never ever ever ever be on par with 1 super. ](*,)

If anything i think mercs should decrease your income by a portion, because mercs never work free, that doesn't mean they are good at what they do either, mercs are cheap soldiers, nowhere near as good as a super soldier trained by your very own army.
Image
Image
TL vs mH
ImageImage
TL vs DDE
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
TL vs mH + DDE
ImageImageImageImage
Rodwolf
Forum Intermediate
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:41 am
Alliance: MaYHeM
Race: System Lord
ID: 1920808
Alternate name(s): *Het Licht Van Weleer - ID 1992112
Location: Belgium

Re: mercs/army size

Rocky wrote:
Rodwolf wrote:
[BoT] Jason wrote:Wouldn't it only have the effect of making mercs on par with supers?

As yes you can get twice the units now but mercs only have half the power out put...



I think this is indeed the way you have to look at it. A normal unit has the potential to make a 'super' out of it so it's indeed stronger as a merc. Hence why I find it a logic idea to count a merc only as a half unit.

how is it in any way at all, logical for you to say 1 merc counts as 0.5 people???

mercs are not so powerful because they are cheap as dirt and very very quick to acquire, thats always been the case. But 1 merc still is 1 person.

I think you took jason's point the wrong way, 1 merc should never ever ever ever be on par with 1 super. ](*,)

If anything i think mercs should decrease your income by a portion, because mercs never work free, that doesn't mean they are good at what they do either, mercs are cheap soldiers, nowhere near as good as a super soldier trained by your very own army.


Your saying what I was saying, just in different wording. A merc is not as strong as a super / normal unit so only fair it doesn't count as much for the plague cap...
Then it's just a matter of doing some maths, 2:1 or 1:0.5, but with 1:0.5 there's a lesser inpact on players at this moment then with 2:1.

I also find the new idea that the mercs their 'fee' will be deducted each turn from your income a very good one btw. But that should be a different topic then this one.
Meh...
RepliMagni
Forum Addict
Posts: 4158
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:29 am
Alliance: Loner :P
Race: NanoTiMaster
ID: 1908448

Re: mercs/army size

And there's the fact that mercs can be bought and sold above the trade/raid/plague limit - further distancing them from anything like regular troops. If you can acquire them so much more easily, why should they logically count for less? The other benefits of mercs logically outweigh their weakness compared to supers....so why the sudden need to make them count for less towards army size?
Image
User avatar
Iƒrit
Forum Addict
Posts: 3507
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:15 am
Alliance: The Legion
Race: System Lord
ID: 22479
Alternate name(s): Hansel, Nighthawk
Location: Maine

Re: mercs/army size

RepliMagni wrote:And there's the fact that mercs can be bought and sold above the trade/raid/plague limit - further distancing them from anything like regular troops. If you can acquire them so much more easily, why should they logically count for less? The other benefits of mercs logically outweigh their weakness compared to supers....so why the sudden need to make them count for less towards army size?

that is what I pointed out at the meeting... their benefits far out way the negative, also no one has pointed out they protect your supers. Plague should be to keep growth down so people can catch up. If you are so high that you can't have merc's to bad so sad, although nice account! :D
User avatar
[SlayerS_fith]
Forum Elite
Posts: 1548
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:11 am
Alliance: Ascended.Gen~
Race: ~Replicator
ID: 40009
Location: Aus

Re: mercs/army size

alot of the above suggestions are right.


mercs hold their value as 1 single unit.
there way easier to buy n build with the added weapons.
so why do they add less to army size?
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Spoiler
Image
Song to My Carerr starting 2011 :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPgfapFr3-s
User avatar
Rocky
Tollan
Posts: 3201
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:10 pm
Alliance: The Legion
Race: Italian Stallion

Re: mercs/army size

Rodwolf wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Rodwolf wrote:
[BoT] Jason wrote:Wouldn't it only have the effect of making mercs on par with supers?

As yes you can get twice the units now but mercs only have half the power out put...



I think this is indeed the way you have to look at it. A normal unit has the potential to make a 'super' out of it so it's indeed stronger as a merc. Hence why I find it a logic idea to count a merc only as a half unit.

how is it in any way at all, logical for you to say 1 merc counts as 0.5 people???

mercs are not so powerful because they are cheap as dirt and very very quick to acquire, thats always been the case. But 1 merc still is 1 person.

I think you took jason's point the wrong way, 1 merc should never ever ever ever be on par with 1 super. ](*,)

If anything i think mercs should decrease your income by a portion, because mercs never work free, that doesn't mean they are good at what they do either, mercs are cheap soldiers, nowhere near as good as a super soldier trained by your very own army.


Your saying what I was saying, just in different wording. A merc is not as strong as a super / normal unit so only fair it doesn't count as much for the plague cap...
Then it's just a matter of doing some maths, 2:1 or 1:0.5, but with 1:0.5 there's a lesser inpact on players at this moment then with 2:1.

I also find the new idea that the mercs their 'fee' will be deducted each turn from your income a very good one btw. But that should be a different topic then this one.

no im not saying that, im saying that although mercs are weaker, they should still count as one unit because that is essentially what they are. They are weaker because they are mercs, less well trained units fighting for money rather than country.
Image
Image
TL vs mH
ImageImage
TL vs DDE
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
TL vs mH + DDE
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Iƒrit
Forum Addict
Posts: 3507
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:15 am
Alliance: The Legion
Race: System Lord
ID: 22479
Alternate name(s): Hansel, Nighthawk
Location: Maine

Re: mercs/army size

actually a merc is stronger than a normal unit... its the same strength, reduces losses to your normals and supers, cost less to train, and is easier to obtain.
User avatar
Rocky
Tollan
Posts: 3201
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:10 pm
Alliance: The Legion
Race: Italian Stallion

Re: mercs/army size

Iƒrit wrote:actually a merc is stronger than a normal unit... its the same strength, reduces losses to your normals and supers, cost less to train, and is easier to obtain.

in that sense yes. They are...cost effective 8-[
Image
Image
TL vs mH
ImageImage
TL vs DDE
ImageImageImage
ImageImageImage
TL vs mH + DDE
ImageImageImageImage
Rodwolf
Forum Intermediate
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:41 am
Alliance: MaYHeM
Race: System Lord
ID: 1920808
Alternate name(s): *Het Licht Van Weleer - ID 1992112
Location: Belgium

Re: mercs/army size

RepliMagni wrote:And there's the fact that mercs can be bought and sold above the trade/raid/plague limit - further distancing them from anything like regular troops. If you can acquire them so much more easily, why should they logically count for less? The other benefits of mercs logically outweigh their weakness compared to supers....so why the sudden need to make them count for less towards army size?



yes but the more mercs you buy the higher your death rate will be (admin made it exponential now). So even if you can buy twice as much mercs as before, in power it remains (in potential) the same as a merc always gives less power then a normal unit / super. You either chose to have more mercs and a higher death rate, or less mercs with a lower death rate.
Meh...
Tekki
Forum Addict
Posts: 4332
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:37 pm
ID: 0

Re: mercs/army size

Do merc's eat less than normal troops? If they do then they can count as less. If they don't, then they shouldn't.

I know they are weaker, but mercs are inferior to my nanoti warriors so it's only logical that they are weaker. And infact mercs eat MORE than my nanoti warriors.... They should count for MORE of my army size.

Mercs should still count for 1 unit and it would definitely be nice if there was a discussion on these 'minor' changes before they come about. Hint, hint, AdminJ, please?
Spoiler
Initial masser on Field Marshal's 120t defence and on Rodwolf's 177t defence.

The forces of Rodwolf fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 178,947,245,996,720 damage on Tekki's forces!

The forces of Rodwolf fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 3 damage on Tekki's forces!
Jedi~Tank wrote:@ADMINS- ALL ADMINS, this is the absolute worst game forum I have ever seen (this sentiment is shared by many) It is amazing how ya;ll can go from good job to complete garbage in no time at all.

Jedi~Tank
A sentiment I can agree with, except some of them have never done a good job. For further details, PM me INGAME Id 9095.
---
Image
Image
Image
Spoiler
Image Image
Image Image
stuff of legends
Forum Expert
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 1:50 am
Alliance: The Legion
Location: China Beijing

Re: mercs/army size

Rodwolf wrote:2 : 1 or 1 : 0.5 is the same mathmatical outcome

lol do it then. Get admin to change it if you think it will have the same outcome.

Rodwolf wrote: ..the same mathmatical outcome....however using your idea it would put almost everyone over the plague cap...

=D> so what is it then, make up your mind.
Rodwolf wrote: But anyway, thx for saying my thinking pattern is logical afterall ;) .

Try again. You cant even write a paragraph without getting yourself into a paradox rodwolf.

Your suggestion resulted in people over the plague limit being able to retain the same stats as their account loses less units, so they can stuff MORE UU into an army.
Image
Image
Rodwolf
Forum Intermediate
Posts: 997
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:41 am
Alliance: MaYHeM
Race: System Lord
ID: 1920808
Alternate name(s): *Het Licht Van Weleer - ID 1992112
Location: Belgium

Re: mercs/army size

stuff of legends wrote:
Rodwolf wrote:2 : 1 or 1 : 0.5 is the same mathmatical outcome

lol do it then. Get admin to change it if you think it will have the same outcome.

Rodwolf wrote: ..the same mathmatical outcome....however using your idea it would put almost everyone over the plague cap...

=D> so what is it then, make up your mind.
Rodwolf wrote: But anyway, thx for saying my thinking pattern is logical afterall ;) .

Try again. You cant even write a paragraph without getting yourself into a paradox rodwolf.

Your suggestion resulted in people over the plague limit being able to retain the same stats as their account loses less units, so they can stuff MORE UU into an army.


Err...try dividing 2 by 1 and then 1 by 0.5 and look at the outcome ;). I was talking about the outcome for power then though, not regarding armysize, seeing you were discussing it powerwise also.
Meh...
User avatar
caesar2
Forum Addict
Posts: 4129
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:25 am
Alliance: The Pirate's Panties Island
Race: [carrot]
ID: 1933254
Location: Slovakia

Re: mercs/army size

If a player builds decent defence to protect income, he dont need more thn 10 - 100m mercs. Strike included.

If a player wants to build special defence, he needs 100 - 300 or even more mercs in defence. He needs more units in covert and basicly his account is just a junky waste of troops producing almost 0 income.

If a player chosed this path of building a superior stats account, he decided to completle change the system of his play.

Sorry mayhemer's, your crying for something which you want only, years this worked perfectly and should remain so. The game dont need another **Filtered** to protect money spenders, statbuilders and empires.

Rodwolf, what are you and your freinds from mH (from what i saw on forum and from admin meets) is pure selfish wish. 99% of players dont need to bother if they have 10 or 20m mercs trained. Well, but I kno the feeling if the player has 300m mercs and know how it hurts.

Heres my sugestion... Dont Build What You Cant Effort - Game limits are there for some reason peaople!!!! Mercs should be count as units with all plus and minus they have. Or they should have even bigger value in size, cuse those are troops your hireing, you know... mercenaries... payed soldiers... eating more, plundering pubs, nasty dirty fighters.
RETURN of the P I R A T E
User avatar
MEZZANINE
Forum Addict
Posts: 4453
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:39 am
Alliance: Forgotten Serenity
Race: System Lord
ID: 81691
Location: CARDIFF

Re: mercs/army size

1) Backroom updates are bad, all updates should be discussed in the public forum to get a variety of perspectives on the pro's & cons before being implemented. Reminds me of special interest lobbies getting laws changed for their own benefit.

2) A Merc IS 1 Unit, its a weaker unit than a super just like a guard or raider and hence much cheaper, but it IS STILL 1 UNIT and should count as such in army size, plague, raid and trade caps.

3) Building a 250 trill def is completing unbalanced and unmassable, brings me back to one of my old suggestions that att/def stats should be linked so def and att are only effective to say 50% of each other

Example

If you have a 50 trill def you must have at least a 25 trill strike

or

If you have a 50 trill strike you must have at least a 25 trill def

Anything over the 50 trill would not count even if built unless the 25 trill was also increased in line.

This would fix several problems in one go, it would stop unmassable defs, force the raider/trader/multi/resource accounts that sit with huge defs and no strike to build a playable account, stop vultures from farming with strikes and no defs, and if someone wants to mass you it would force them to build a def for you to mass back.
Image

Image

Image
Spoiler
Attack Mercs Killed (30) 459,329,001
Defence Mercs Killed (10) 2,918,478,517
Attack Soldiers Killed(60) 12,677,958
Defence Soldiers Killed(20) 226,236,488
Attack Super Soldiers Killed(300) 490,627,262
Defence Super Soldiers Killed(100) 4,131,482,551
Spies Killed(50) 4,256,505,842
Spy Killers Killed(50) 651,022,448
Mothership Weapons Destroyed(300) 35,583,034
Mothership Shields Destroyed(300) 39,498,511
Mothership Fleets Destroyed(200) 2,413,254
Planet Defences Destroyed(300) 358,539
Planets Taken(5000) 411
Naquadah Stolen(0.0001) 2,355,738,435,154,805
Untrained Kidnapped(50) 5,943,886,456
Weapon Points Destroyed (Sab+Att)(0.0001) 74,293,522,376,607
Attack Turns Used(1) 1,731,971
User avatar
Bullseye
Forum Expert
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:26 am
Alternate name(s): *Bullseye
Location: UK

Re: mercs/army size

Sorry i cant agree Mezz.
That will be a serious problem for new players using one weapon to raid to increase army size and keeping costs down. They will then not be able to keep naq safe only having a tiny defence.

Nothing is unmassable, it just depends how far you and your alliance are prepared to go to take it down.
Post Reply

Return to “Discussion on Enhancements (ones already released)”