Era 14- Quest for Happiness

Records of the Eras that came before
Borek
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Forum wrote:http://quantumgate.stargatewars.com/updates.php
Umm, Jason, why on Earth are you trying so hard to ruin Quantum? 99% of the plyers have stated that gambling is the worst update to teh game you have ever done and yet here you are adding it AGAIN after the last 2 waves have completely decimated the population!

Let me make it clear to you, people DO NOT LIKE GAMBLING, GET RID OF IT, FOREVER! it was flawed when you added it to begin with, it's still flawed, it makes the game 100% luck based and no one wants to play a game where a small streak of luck makes such a huge difference.

Don't tweak the gambling, don't try to make it better, just admit it was wrong to add it and LISTEN to your players when they say enough is enough!
Edmund Blackadder-"The path of my Life is beset with Cowpats from the Devils own satanic herd!"
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

ok - how is it flawed now?

old way:
33% chance to get 400% of bet (3:4) ie 1 in 3 to get 4x
90% change to get 110% of bet (almost for sure) ie 90 in 100 to get 110
1% chance to get 500% of bet (big one) ie 1 in 100 to get 500

new way:
25% chance to get 300% of bet ie 1 in 4 to get 3
85% chance to get 110% of bet ie 85 in 100 to get 110
1% chance to get 990% of bet ie 1 in 100 to get 99

in short - every bet will pay off LESS than you put in, if you do it enough...
the reason to keep it - suppose you are a few K short of an upgrade... do the for sure? get the last bit -- but at a risk...
or have a few K around you want to wager -- try it... likely you lose, but if you 'beat the odds' -- you win. (unlike before where you had the odds with you...)

I am not against removing it, i just thought (when its not 'money for free') it could be a "nice to have" without any imbalance.

is the feeling the same with lotteries? or just gambling?
(and i do listen - i listened to HOW the gambling was messed up...thats fixed...)


ps - i am glad you read that last part in the update message about fine tuning based on forum comments :) -- (or assume you read it at least)
Don't make me use this!!!
Borek
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Forum wrote:ok - how is it flawed now?

old way:
33% chance to get 400% of bet (3:4)
90% change to get 110% of bet (almost for sure)
1% chance to get 500% of bet (big one)

new way:
25% chance to get 300% of bet
85% chance to get 110% of bet
1% chance to get 990% of bet

in short - every bet will pay off LESS than you put in, if you do it enough...
the reason to keep it - suppose you are a few K short of an upgrade... do the for sure? get the last bit -- but at a risk...
or have a few K around you want to wager -- try it... likely you lose, but if you 'beat the odds' -- you win. (unlike before where you had the odds with you...)

I am not against removing it, i just thought (when its not 'money for free') it could be a "nice to have" without any imbalance.

is the feeling the same with lotteries? or just gambling?
(and i do listen - i listened to HOW the gambling was messed up...thats fixed...)

hmm, checking the figures atm...

Basic gambling rates are just in favour of the "bookies", so that's not too bad, at least we can't just mindlessly mash the gamble option and get free naq, but the basic problem remains, get some luck and you win big. Now call me an old school player, but i always thought the idea of quantumwars was to actually attack people to make money instead of just putting some naq into the bank and gambling. Now with these rates you really do need luck to win, but that leads me to ask why have it as an option? Surely the game was doing just fine with Income per turn and farming as options for making naq, i mean the basis of the game that was loved by the players for the 1st 12 waves, why change the best aspect of the game and replace it with an impersonal button where you don't even risk annoying anyone to get extra naq? How will gambling help wars and generate fun in the game?

The Lotteries are also ridiculous, 1 person gaining all those resources based entirely on luck is utterly against the spirit of Quantumwars, once again it is a way for someone to gain massively with no risk of annoying anyone. If you want people to be able to gain silly amounts of UU just put in raiding again, then at least everyone has a shot at gaining instead of 1 person.

It's the same deal with the miners on the market. I tried to explain to you how bad this has been for the game in the past and you just don't get it. Being able to potentially gain 1.5 million Miners with 1 market trade is just ludicrus when most players are unlikely to have more than a 50k raw UP. 1.5 mill UU's in 1 MT is fully 30 days UP in 1 chunk, it makes UP pointless and the game based once again on pure luck. if you get to log in and time your MT right you "win big", otherwise your wave is over.

i want people to play the entire wave knowing that how they spend their naq makes a difference, what you are proposing is just a set of rules that promotes luck over skill, hell, it makes it worse, it actually makes skill largely irrelevant, all that will matter is who wins the lotto's near the begining, who has the balls to risk a few gambles to win big and who has the luck to log in and get a sweet deal on market miners. it has bugger all to do with who farms well, who goes to war and what friends you have allied with you, which in my opinion are what USED to make quantum so great.
Last edited by Borek on Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Edmund Blackadder-"The path of my Life is beset with Cowpats from the Devils own satanic herd!"
Kikaz
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Damnit scar posted while I was typing lol...


Jason, the majority of Quantum right now would tell you just to remove the whole gambling system.

NAQ and UU Loteries, gambling...

+ the ten a day limit made it as boring as hell...

Also there are some lucky people here... last wave I rolled a double 100 to 500...

So the whole 990% bonus (Unless it was a typo) doesnt seem that big of a improvement to me..
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Quotes
Meanwhile in MaYHeM
Duderanch wrote:And so it would come to pass, in December of 2012 the war between the ponies and the pandas broke out..it lasted 21 days, the result? Armagedon.
Noobert wrote:Kikaz scares me at times, and he's in my own alliance.
Dr. House wrote:I HAVE THE POWER! The power to warn, and I will **Filtered** use it too.
Kateaclysmic wrote: I thought you loved me, Kikaz. I'm getting an abortion.
Sarevok wrote:
Kikaz wrote:Ridiculous.
Congrats on the most constructive post ever...
Affirmation wrote: And Speaking of bad boys (the baddest)... Kikaz is right, Q is a family, and Affy is the love child of Kikaz and Kateaclysmic!! That is right... I am NOT AN ABORTION... but she never nursed me and Kikaz stopped being a terrible father figure to Affy years ago... Family - HA... Affy's old arse...[-X

Where is the love Kikaz??? WHERE IS THE LOVE (Dad... :smt047 ) ??? [-(
I creep though shadows
I rise up at night
I live just inside you
And give you a terrible fright
I walk through the darkness
I lurk under your bed
I live in your wardrobe
I creep up in the shed.
I tiptoe through the corridor
I follow you anywhere
I rip your braveness apart
And never ever care
I am fear so don't come near..
2007 Quantum Player of the Year Runner-up - 2011 Villian of the Year - 2012 Hall of Fame - 2012 Quantum Player of the Year Runner-up - Leader and Co-founder of the 2014 Alliance of the Year
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Borek wrote:25% chance to get 300% of bet simply means that if i bet 100 naq 10 times i am statistically guaranteed to get 4 wins


12 bets of 100, 25% chance to win, 300% payout:
actually - if you bet 12 times, (x 0.25) you would win 3 times, for 900.
it would cost 100x 12 = 1200

so you lose 300.

the 'new' way is NOT in your favour. the bookies (or the house as i call it) wins. but if you RISK you may get a reward, this time -- but not over time...
Don't make me use this!!!
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

i am sad i did not do it right, as i view it as a nice to have...for reasons above.

although - since i did screw it up - and the taste is still in the mouth...maybe i remove this round, and potentially add it as a permanent feature (with the right odds) a round or 3 up the road....nothing wrong with allowing people to beat themselves, as well as allowing others to beat them too....the 10/day limit is just so that it is a minor addition - not a way for the lucky to beat the odds ;) (anyone in the CIA practiced in electron manipulation via thought control, for example, that statistically can alter the odds by as much as 5% but not more...)



Kikaz wrote:Damnit scar posted while I was typing lol...


Jason, the majority of Quantum right now would tell you just to remove the whole gambling system.

NAQ and UU Loteries, gambling...

+ the ten a day limit made it as boring as hell...

Also there are some lucky people here... last wave I rolled a double 100 to 500...

So the whole 990% bonus (Unless it was a typo) doesnt seem that big of a improvement to me..
Don't make me use this!!!
Kikaz
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Forum wrote:i am sad i did not do it right, as i view it as a nice to have...for reasons above.

although - since i did screw it up - and the taste is still in the mouth...maybe i remove this round, and potentially add it as a permanent feature (with the right odds) a round or 3 up the road....nothing wrong with allowing people to beat themselves, as well as allowing others to beat them too....the 10/day limit is just so that it is a minor addition - not a way for the lucky to beat the odds ;) (anyone in the CIA practiced in electron manipulation via thought control, for example, that statistically can alter the odds by as much as 5% but not more...)



Kikaz wrote:Damnit scar posted while I was typing lol...


Jason, the majority of Quantum right now would tell you just to remove the whole gambling system.

NAQ and UU Loteries, gambling...

+ the ten a day limit made it as boring as hell...

Also there are some lucky people here... last wave I rolled a double 100 to 500...

So the whole 990% bonus (Unless it was a typo) doesnt seem that big of a improvement to me..


:lol:
Image
Quotes
Meanwhile in MaYHeM
Duderanch wrote:And so it would come to pass, in December of 2012 the war between the ponies and the pandas broke out..it lasted 21 days, the result? Armagedon.
Noobert wrote:Kikaz scares me at times, and he's in my own alliance.
Dr. House wrote:I HAVE THE POWER! The power to warn, and I will **Filtered** use it too.
Kateaclysmic wrote: I thought you loved me, Kikaz. I'm getting an abortion.
Sarevok wrote:
Kikaz wrote:Ridiculous.
Congrats on the most constructive post ever...
Affirmation wrote: And Speaking of bad boys (the baddest)... Kikaz is right, Q is a family, and Affy is the love child of Kikaz and Kateaclysmic!! That is right... I am NOT AN ABORTION... but she never nursed me and Kikaz stopped being a terrible father figure to Affy years ago... Family - HA... Affy's old arse...[-X

Where is the love Kikaz??? WHERE IS THE LOVE (Dad... :smt047 ) ??? [-(
I creep though shadows
I rise up at night
I live just inside you
And give you a terrible fright
I walk through the darkness
I lurk under your bed
I live in your wardrobe
I creep up in the shed.
I tiptoe through the corridor
I follow you anywhere
I rip your braveness apart
And never ever care
I am fear so don't come near..
2007 Quantum Player of the Year Runner-up - 2011 Villian of the Year - 2012 Hall of Fame - 2012 Quantum Player of the Year Runner-up - Leader and Co-founder of the 2014 Alliance of the Year
Borek
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Forum wrote:
Borek wrote:25% chance to get 300% of bet simply means that if i bet 100 naq 10 times i am statistically guaranteed to get 4 wins


12 bets of 100, 25% chance to win, 300% payout:
actually - if you bet 12 times, (x 0.25) you would win 3 times, for 900.
it would cost 100x 12 = 1200

so you lose 300.

the 'new' way is NOT in your favour. the bookies (or the house as i call it) wins. but if you RISK you may get a reward, this time -- but not over time...

yeah., i edited fairly fast when i realised my numbers were off, but you were watching, please check my comments again now.
Edmund Blackadder-"The path of my Life is beset with Cowpats from the Devils own satanic herd!"
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

well spoken.
some adjusted (see my updated comments in game updates) and will think on the market...market has always been tough - maybe a round without would not be bad, while i figure out a better way...

Borek wrote:...please check my comments again now.
Don't make me use this!!!
Kikaz
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

I like being able to buy turns, but the miners are a bit much, the turns last all wave the miners are gone within the first month and anyone who was inactive the first month and maybe just bought turns a few times can score big right before the end where the miners go 300k miners per 2k turns...

I'd like to see more of the old quantum back where you had to work your ass off to get to the top. You could farm for hours and just barely be able to buy turns so you could repeat the process, fill your bank and wait for the next week... The last two waves were ridiculous on turns one supporter bonus and a few people could have over a million turns...
Image
Quotes
Meanwhile in MaYHeM
Duderanch wrote:And so it would come to pass, in December of 2012 the war between the ponies and the pandas broke out..it lasted 21 days, the result? Armagedon.
Noobert wrote:Kikaz scares me at times, and he's in my own alliance.
Dr. House wrote:I HAVE THE POWER! The power to warn, and I will **Filtered** use it too.
Kateaclysmic wrote: I thought you loved me, Kikaz. I'm getting an abortion.
Sarevok wrote:
Kikaz wrote:Ridiculous.
Congrats on the most constructive post ever...
Affirmation wrote: And Speaking of bad boys (the baddest)... Kikaz is right, Q is a family, and Affy is the love child of Kikaz and Kateaclysmic!! That is right... I am NOT AN ABORTION... but she never nursed me and Kikaz stopped being a terrible father figure to Affy years ago... Family - HA... Affy's old arse...[-X

Where is the love Kikaz??? WHERE IS THE LOVE (Dad... :smt047 ) ??? [-(
I creep though shadows
I rise up at night
I live just inside you
And give you a terrible fright
I walk through the darkness
I lurk under your bed
I live in your wardrobe
I creep up in the shed.
I tiptoe through the corridor
I follow you anywhere
I rip your braveness apart
And never ever care
I am fear so don't come near..
2007 Quantum Player of the Year Runner-up - 2011 Villian of the Year - 2012 Hall of Fame - 2012 Quantum Player of the Year Runner-up - Leader and Co-founder of the 2014 Alliance of the Year
Borek
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Forum wrote:well spoken.
some adjusted (see my updated comments in game updates) and will think on the market...market has always been tough - maybe a round without would not be bad, while i figure out a better way...

Borek wrote:...please check my comments again now.
Yeah, the market has been a problem for all waves to be honest, lol, my personal opinion is you should replace it with a simple button that gives you turns in exchange for naq. Being able to get naq off the market is a way for people to gain from multi accounts or excessively feed freinds, UU i already explained, that just leaves buying turns, which to be brutally honest is all we need the market for.

I would also like to express my concern about the polarised shields. In a war game i don't feel it should be included and IF you do think it should remain then i would like to suggest all shields get reset at wave end. otherwise in 3-4 waves time someone could conceivably have most of the top players on a shield and avoid war with those players forever.

My opinion is that quantum will become more popular if the emphasis is pushed firmly towards encouraging wars and people attacking each other, this means anything that allows naq to be generated in a way that cannot be stolen should be avoided, turns need to be very easy to get to encourage massings and not make people constantly think about whether they can afford to spend 500+ turns massing someone instead of using those turns to farm.

In short, lots of AT's available via some sort of market system (and no naq or UU), no "easy" way to gain large amount of UU/Naq via some other method.

lets make this next wave one where UP matters, farming matters, alliances matter, where people cannot be invulnerable via a polarised shield and, yes, the happiness of your army matters. The happiness idea is very nice, i love it, i just want to make sure it's not overshadowed by the gambling or market system.
Edmund Blackadder-"The path of my Life is beset with Cowpats from the Devils own satanic herd!"
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

all good ideas, but you have to factor those that do not have infinite time, either :) too many turns can = too much time requried, thereby eliminating those that cannot spend the time...there must be a counter-balance to that, or some way to cut time required without necessarily losing rank...although IF people have the time, and spend the time, there should be benefit -but not exclusive benefit or excessive benefit...

for this:
Borek wrote:In a war game i don't feel it should be included and IF you do think it should remain then i would like to suggest all shields get reset at wave end.
-- it is reset each round...
maybe you just scare people ;) so they create the shield quick....
i actually put this in to stop 'bullying' but the concept is good, considering the cost of doing it...(and the fact that it only lasts a round).

for the market - i like the 'button to buy turns' - i think i will attempt to simplify the market to such a level in quantum...maybe a button or 3 tops..but a lot easier to understand for you and I -- no end of round suprises on the exchange rates :)



Borek wrote:
Forum wrote:well spoken.
some adjusted (see my updated comments in game updates) and will think on the market...market has always been tough - maybe a round without would not be bad, while i figure out a better way...

Borek wrote:...please check my comments again now.
Yeah, the market has been a problem for all waves to be honest, lol, my personal opinion is you should replace it with a simple button that gives you turns in exchange for naq. Being able to get naq off the market is a way for people to gain from multi accounts or excessively feed freinds, UU i already explained, that just leaves buying turns, which to be brutally honest is all we need the market for.

I would also like to express my concern about the polarised shields. In a war game i don't feel it should be included and IF you do think it should remain then i would like to suggest all shields get reset at wave end. otherwise in 3-4 waves time someone could conceivably have most of the top players on a shield and avoid war with those players forever.

My opinion is that quantum will become more popular if the emphasis is pushed firmly towards encouraging wars and people attacking each other, this means anything that allows naq to be generated in a way that cannot be stolen should be avoided, turns need to be very easy to get to encourage massings and not make people constantly think about whether they can afford to spend 500+ turns massing someone instead of using those turns to farm.

In short, lots of AT's available via some sort of market system (and no naq or UU), no "easy" way to gain large amount of UU/Naq via some other method.

lets make this next wave one where UP matters, farming matters, alliances matter, where people cannot be invulnerable via a polarised shield and, yes, the happiness of your army matters. The happiness idea is very nice, i love it, i just want to make sure it's not overshadowed by the gambling or market system.
Don't make me use this!!!
Borek
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Forum wrote:all good ideas, but you have to factor those that do not have infinite time, either :) too many turns can = too much time requried, thereby eliminating those that cannot spend the time...there must be a counter-balance to that, or some way to cut time required without necessarily losing rank...although IF people have the time, and spend the time, there should be benefit -but not exclusive benefit or excessive benefit...

for this:
Borek wrote:In a war game i don't feel it should be included and IF you do think it should remain then i would like to suggest all shields get reset at wave end.
-- it is reset each round...
maybe you just scare people ;) so they create the shield quick....
i actually put this in to stop 'bullying' but the concept is good, considering the cost of doing it...(and the fact that it only lasts a round).

for the market - i like the 'button to buy turns' - i think i will attempt to simplify the market to such a level in quantum...maybe a button or 3 tops..but a lot easier to understand for you and I -- no end of round suprises on the exchange rates :)



Borek wrote:
Forum wrote:well spoken.
some adjusted (see my updated comments in game updates) and will think on the market...market has always been tough - maybe a round without would not be bad, while i figure out a better way...

Borek wrote:...please check my comments again now.
Yeah, the market has been a problem for all waves to be honest, lol, my personal opinion is you should replace it with a simple button that gives you turns in exchange for naq. Being able to get naq off the market is a way for people to gain from multi accounts or excessively feed freinds, UU i already explained, that just leaves buying turns, which to be brutally honest is all we need the market for.

I would also like to express my concern about the polarised shields. In a war game i don't feel it should be included and IF you do think it should remain then i would like to suggest all shields get reset at wave end. otherwise in 3-4 waves time someone could conceivably have most of the top players on a shield and avoid war with those players forever.

My opinion is that quantum will become more popular if the emphasis is pushed firmly towards encouraging wars and people attacking each other, this means anything that allows naq to be generated in a way that cannot be stolen should be avoided, turns need to be very easy to get to encourage massings and not make people constantly think about whether they can afford to spend 500+ turns massing someone instead of using those turns to farm.

In short, lots of AT's available via some sort of market system (and no naq or UU), no "easy" way to gain large amount of UU/Naq via some other method.

lets make this next wave one where UP matters, farming matters, alliances matter, where people cannot be invulnerable via a polarised shield and, yes, the happiness of your army matters. The happiness idea is very nice, i love it, i just want to make sure it's not overshadowed by the gambling or market system.

yeah, too much time is a problem i guess, but you need to realise it is actually very easy to spend 10,000 turns a day farming and massing, especially near the end of the wave. Perhaps some sort of sliding scale for the "gain AT's" button so that the longer the wave goes on the more turns you get from it? This would stop rampant farming at the beginining and allowed increased farming and massing as the wave progresses.

i didn't realise the shields were reset, i've never used any myself nor do i recall finding someone with one set up on me, but i know Kikaz had 7 or 8 last wave, lol, it just doesn't seem right to me that Kikaz or someone else with an itchy trigger finger can have so many people immune to him. After all we DO all have a 3 day PPT option, surely that's enough? For this wave iu don't think it will matter much if it's in, but i would like to see some modifications to the shield system at some stage in the future.
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Looks like a good era, since I won't be that busy next three months I might give it a shot :) What do ya say ben, another server-wide war? :-D

However I do think gambling should be removed - it was the reason many players quit quantum. Also concerning the update with attacks (it brings unhappiness) - I think it should be changed. Ok if u attack x person which has never attacked u before or declared war with your realm then it should bring ur population a small unhappiness BUT if someone declared war with you, his realm is in state of war against ur realm so by attacking those who declared war against you, your citizens shouldn't become unhappy because u're simply returning the strike, defending your own borders. So this shouldn't effect happiness, or maybe only if u destroy the attacker happiness should increase because u destroyed ur enemy. The smaller the losses are, the bigger happiness gets. We must remember it's stargateWARS :)
that's what I think...Hopefully the PPT stays cause I don't intend to spend all my free time behind quantum if I decide to play another era :P

~Jack
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Haz wrote:It took a bit of time, but the investigation has now been completed.
S1eepy will be banned for scripting, for the remainder of this era.
Name: S1eepy [ TheCheekyChickens ]
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Re: congrats era 13 - welcome to 14- quest for happiness

Hmm this wave looks good and creative :-D

...I dont like that gambling is still in it...I mean last wave i came 2nd by a long way and i didnt farm a single day...I simply logged on in the morning, gambled 10 times, spent a bit and then logged off and waited for the next day..

If someone needs more naq...Go and farm!

As for the UU lottery...that is probably the most horrible thing ever lol - it just gives a ridiculous advantage to anyone who wins.

So personally i think all gambling stuff should be removed - but apart from that this wave looks great :-D I look forward to playing it!
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