congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

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floophead_III
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

I like the ideas so far, but I think most important will be a way to keep multies from trading resources at all costs. Also, fix the mothership shield damage. It is a bit ridiculous and frustrating, and quite frankly stupid.

However 1 of 2 changes HAS to take place:
-keep SS and USS from being available until the market opens (5 days in or so).
-Remove UP boost on SS/USS

Those are what make buying so imbalanced more than anything, because players buy first day and get 5-10x everyone's army size before anyone is even able to farm to catch up.

Without this we'll still end up with what always happens every wave, overpowered buyers.
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

Only other thing I would ask is to change the co/alliance relation like you did in Main recently. On multiple occasions (including the last night of the wave :?) a couple of my members got moved out of the alliance into their commander's new alliance.
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13:38 General Zeus Sabotage Repelled 377,977,330 details

The forces of simpson_eh fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 305,393,963,879,000 damage on Mathlord's forces!
They managed to eradicate 4,635,986 of Mathlord's troops.
---
The forces of simpson_eh fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 12 damage on Mathlord's forces!
They managed to eradicate 0 of Mathlord's troops.
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

a litlle suggestion?
make it to be the the rage of positive happens around 200 :)
1 and 2 rank 1.99
etc
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

Looks great! As for the MS problem, let me try and explain it and help with the debugging process...

MS problem is basically that the number of defense shields you lose is based ONLY off the total number of shields you have, NOT modified by your MS technology.

say i have an Ms with 2000 attack slots and 2000 defense slots filled, i also have 2000 MS techs making my Ms quite powerful. An enemy with a 500 attack, 500 defense slot MS with 500 techs has 1/4 the power from filled slots and 1/4 from techs, making it 1/16th of the total power of mine.

OK, now the bug kicks in when they attack, despite them being 1/16th of the power, they WILL destroy 100 shields per attack on mine even though their Ms is 1/16th of the total power of mine. Those 100 shields i lose are fixed and are not modified by my defense power, yet they ARE affected by the enemies attack power fully even though the attack power is significantly less.

it gets even worse if their MS is massed, because to mass mine all they need to do is just buy their MS attack weapons back, yes mine will "blow through" the none-existant shields, but the losses for them will be the same regardless of them having no shields, they will NOT lose EXTRA MS weapons, and yet i WILL lose 5% of my shields from each attack, at least until they lose almost all their MS attack weapons anyway...but they can buy them back and because they are not suffering MS shield losses it costs them a lot less than it should to mass my much bigger MS because my defense shield losses are fixed at 5% and not modified by my MS tech boosting the defense score of the MS.

Basially Ms shield losses need to be affected by the tech and not just an arbitary 5% lost per attack.
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

Amen Borek
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

Looks great, the only thing I dissagreed with was the units given by buying supporter status are based on the top UP, but I've only ever boughten 1 SS in Q, so beggars can't be choosers. :lol:
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

GunZ wrote:You know you are famous when admin start naming Era's after you :) :lol: :-D


Q SHOULD BE A MIRROR OF MAIN.


With all respect, I disagree there. Obviously the two are always going to have similarities ...but Q is the place to play with a few twists , a few surprises , and the occasional huge curve. That is what keeps it interesting ! Granted , I do not always like the changes, but I still like the fact that it is always a wee bit different.



hmm gunz, it's must have been a rough day. but i think i've been mis quoted!

Yes Q should be a mirror EXPECT!!!! for the other things i mentioned, which would be those suprises, twists and things.


P.S SABBING limited should be increased to 200, as Recons count as one and sab's count as 2, as it's currently stands meaning that you can only sab one person for maxed sabs of 20 times.
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

the way it actually works is:

your shield has a 'base value' per shield as listed when you buy it..
their attack is attack base * count, adjust by tech.
your defence is your base shields * count, adjusted by tech.

the number shields destroyed (in general .. there are a few other divisors, etc) - is:
(their attack / your defence ) * their attack / your shield base value /2

so -- the techs affect the multiplier. but not the shield strength in calculating how many are destroyed...

so if someone with 1/10th your defence attacks, their weapons only count for 10% of their 'true' value when calculating how much strenght is devoted to destroying your shields...


now -all that said - i *think* the math works, and maybe there is a bug... OR -- my math is off and you can tell me where ;) -- it seems 'overkill' to me to use both a mod, and the 'tech affected base shield strength' to determine how many are killed... but maybe thats just me ...


Borek wrote:Looks great! As for the MS problem, let me try and explain it and help with the debugging process...

MS problem is basically that the number of defense shields you lose is based ONLY off the total number of shields you have, NOT modified by your MS technology.

say i have an Ms with 2000 attack slots and 2000 defense slots filled, i also have 2000 MS techs making my Ms quite powerful. An enemy with a 500 attack, 500 defense slot MS with 500 techs has 1/4 the power from filled slots and 1/4 from techs, making it 1/16th of the total power of mine.

OK, now the bug kicks in when they attack, despite them being 1/16th of the power, they WILL destroy 100 shields per attack on mine even though their Ms is 1/16th of the total power of mine. Those 100 shields i lose are fixed and are not modified by my defense power, yet they ARE affected by the enemies attack power fully even though the attack power is significantly less.

it gets even worse if their MS is massed, because to mass mine all they need to do is just buy their MS attack weapons back, yes mine will "blow through" the none-existant shields, but the losses for them will be the same regardless of them having no shields, they will NOT lose EXTRA MS weapons, and yet i WILL lose 5% of my shields from each attack, at least until they lose almost all their MS attack weapons anyway...but they can buy them back and because they are not suffering MS shield losses it costs them a lot less than it should to mass my much bigger MS because my defense shield losses are fixed at 5% and not modified by my MS tech boosting the defense score of the MS.

Basially Ms shield losses need to be affected by the tech and not just an arbitary 5% lost per attack.
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

All the new updates look great :D

It will be nice to hopefuly have a MS that doesnt get dominated by tiny little ones lol!

I dont mind HEs idea about having lots of things go towards rank (UP, size etc etc as he posted before)

But yeah...should be a fantastic wave 15. kudos to admin 8)

EDIT - i only skimmed some stuff...but one thing that would be really awesome...was if it was actually worth farming innactives every week :-D
-HEs idea about gaining 100up per week is pretty good...
Last edited by HippyFool on Fri May 23, 2008 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

how would that change things?

bebita wrote:a litlle suggestion?
make it to be the the rage of positive happens around 200 :)
1 and 2 rank 1.99
etc
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

actually i am moving away from the concept of big accounts being able to farm the inactives :) -- the 'runaway top players' is really what i am trying to balance... if they can farm with as little loss as - say - a mid rank... well.. they will :)

now - increasing (everyone below xxx value?) per week, i will consider. but they will never grow as fast as an active account... so... they may end up being farms worthy the mid range... (giving mid range a chance to get high range)...

but the top range players, will likely need to fight to keep their spots :) as it should be...

anyway - we will see. the damage on attack is really quite different this era, but i did make it so i can very easily update the severity of it :)

HippyFool wrote:
EDIT - i only skimmed some stuff...but one thing that would be really awesome...was if it was actually worth farming innactives every week :-D
-HEs idea about gaining 100up per week is pretty good...
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

ok - seems that unit production also grows naturally here .. (gunz and babies, babies and gunz...) -- by 13 per day. will see how this plays out ...
a decent idea...

Forum wrote:now - increasing (everyone below xxx value?) per week, i will consider.

HippyFool wrote:
EDIT - i only skimmed some stuff...but one thing that would be really awesome...was if it was actually worth farming innactives every week :-D
-HEs idea about gaining 100up per week is pretty good...
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

well, the problem is that when i farm people with a strong MS, even if my MS is literally 50 times as powerful, i still lose exactly the same number of shields as i would if i farmed someone with an MS 1 rank below mine and very close in power. This means a tiny MS can mass a huge one for little cost, because they only have to buy their small number of weapons and even though they don't deal out enough damage to legitimately destroy that many shields off the big MS, they do.

Think of it this way, i have a big MS, my shields are each adding lets say 50 million per shield to my total power, a smaller enemy MS deals out 1 billion attack power and instead of destroying 20 shields, it actually destroys 100 shields purely becaue i happen to have a total of 2000 shields. If i had 3000 shields i would lose 150 to the same attack even though my MS would be 50% more powerful.
Forum wrote:the way it actually works is:

your shield has a 'base value' per shield as listed when you buy it..
their attack is attack base * count, adjust by tech.
your defence is your base shields * count, adjusted by tech.

the number shields destroyed (in general .. there are a few other divisors, etc) - is:
(their attack / your defence ) * their attack / your shield base value /2

so -- the techs affect the multiplier. but not the shield strength in calculating how many are destroyed...

so if someone with 1/10th your defence attacks, their weapons only count for 10% of their 'true' value when calculating how much strenght is devoted to destroying your shields...


now -all that said - i *think* the math works, and maybe there is a bug... OR -- my math is off and you can tell me where ;) -- it seems 'overkill' to me to use both a mod, and the 'tech affected base shield strength' to determine how many are killed... but maybe thats just me ...
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Re: congrats on 14 - welcome to 15...BIG GUNZ

ok - the last step i did not include was to take the minimum of 5% or the actual damage...
maybe thats' where the bug is.. i rewrote the line using different and simpler logic- did not look bugged, but you never know :) --if it was always taking the 5% tells me something funny was happening..

will see for sure when we get some battles, and the debug messages start coming to me...

quick last question (so i dont have to look it up) -- typically how much of a multiplier does your tech give you on the base value of the shield strengths? (assume mid era...)

Borek wrote:well, the problem is that when i farm people with a strong MS, even if my MS is literally 50 times as powerful, i still lose exactly the same number of shields as i would if i farmed someone with an MS 1 rank below mine and very close in power. This means a tiny MS can mass a huge one for little cost, because they only have to buy their small number of weapons and even though they don't deal out enough damage to legitimately destroy that many shields off the big MS, they do.

Think of it this way, i have a big MS, my shields are each adding lets say 50 million per shield to my total power, a smaller enemy MS deals out 1 billion attack power and instead of destroying 20 shields, it actually destroys 100 shields purely becaue i happen to have a total of 2000 shields. If i had 3000 shields i would lose 150 to the same attack even though my MS would be 50% more powerful.
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