Motherships

But not bugs.
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xdjoker
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Motherships

I believe that the current MS is currently to over powered in the way that you will no longer lose any MS once they are at 9 or lower while attacking.

Juliette wrote:That is not the only downside.. you also cannot carry more than 900,000 Naq per hit. :)

It has been said that with the limit of only carrying 900,000 Naq per hit is one downside of this but I do not believe this to be the truth. It is currently not a downside in a single way seeing as at most i have seen out is around 2 to 3 mil which is rare. The more common amount I see out is 800,000 to 1 mil which is in perfect range for the MS to hit and not take any repercussions because of the attack.

I purpose that the amount to which you no longer lose MS be dropped to around 5 or 6 that would lower the amount of naq per hit. Also to go along with that reduce the chance at losing MS to where it is no longer 100% of losing one. That way you are taking a risk at going for higher level naq with more than 5 or 6 MS instead of having an absolute guarantee of losing 1 no matter what.
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Juliette
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Re: Motherships

:D Fantastic.

You may or may not have noticed everyone's UP is increased by 5 per day. (You may have seen the 3k army players who seem not to attack?) Trust me, pretty soon the naquadah will flow more, much more. It will become a downside. I do agree that currently, it is not an effective downside.
At some point in the near future, attack turns will become scarce; when every other player makes a few hundred k naquadah per turn, people will wait with attacking until their farms have more naquadah available, leading to the need for more MSes, leading to MS death.


Good proposal, xdjoker. Anyone else feel the same way about it? :)

Lower 'no deaths'-cap on MSes to 5, and change the 100% 'yes- at least 1 MS death' to 90%?


Have to think long term on this one; when newbies register and start playing, they start attacking and lose all but 5 of their MS. Not a single hit will work, unless they work together with other players, and we all know how that works. ;) They would land in a catch-22: "Need naq to build MS, need MS to steal naq." You have seen the shocked reactions when the first people started attacking.. and those are experienced players. Imagine a newbie.
With 10~9 MSes left, they will be able to steal enough to build another MS, or do something else with the naq.. basically, it is a form of newbie protection, and we are all newbies stat-wise. :)

Hope I made sense, even if you disagree. :) Looking forward to your (all of you) reactions.
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xdjoker
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Re: Motherships

Juliette wrote:
Have to think long term on this one; when newbies register and start playing, they start attacking and lose all but 5 of their MS. Not a single hit will work, unless they work together with other players, and we all know how that works. ;) They would land in a catch-22: "Need naq to build MS, need MS to steal naq." You have seen the shocked reactions when the first people started attacking.. and those are experienced players. Imagine a newbie.
With 10~9 MSes left, they will be able to steal enough to build another MS, or do something else with the naq.. basically, it is a form of newbie protection, and we are all newbies stat-wise. :)


This did bring about one part that i did not realize the daily refresh rate on the MS would also have to be lowered to whatever the minimum loss is on the MS or one above it like it currently is.
That would eliminate the problem where the newbies would not be able to get naq. While at the same time it would limit the amount of naq they could get per hit. Which would solve the problem i had since i felt you could to easily get naq with the base amount of ships while not losing a single ship.

Loss percentage of MS per battle
Heres a example of what i believe the current system is
I take 100 ships against 10 im going to lose at least 1 no matter what since any fleet above 9 will force you to lose 1 ship.
I believe the way we should determine how many motherships you lose is by how close the battle was. If the battle was 11 against 12 then both sides would lose more than one each. But if it was 100 against 20 then the 100 should have atleast a decent chance of not losing any at all where the 10 should lose a majority of their ships.

Now that was on a equal playing field with no accession levels. With addition of accession levels if i were to take 14 ships against 16 but my ships were 10 times stronger then i should have somewhere around the same chance at losing no ships like the 100 against 20.
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Juliette
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Re: Motherships

The thing is, we are at too low a level at the moment (figures are still extremely small) so any percentages will be perceived as 'massive losses' (e.g. 10 attack, 1 dies). These losses are not 'massive', they are the very low end of a very large scale. ;) At this point, changing loss ratios would be overkill. It would open up a need for constant calibration, which frankly is not necessary. At higher figures, you will see how it levels out. :)

I will illustrate using a battle log from just before the "Go Live"-reset.

As you can see, my 1000 Motherships versus Forum's 65 resulted in equal deaths. That is to say, the Attacker lost .7%, whereas the Defender lost 10%. A factor 12 more losses, in this specific case.

[spoiler2=Battle Report]
As with all battles, this one has been recorded for the official history of your realm. You, of course, are the first to know the results as they are reported directly to you first. This is the official report of the battle:


The army of Juliette stormed the realm of Forum!

Juliette arrived in 1,000 Mothership.
They were matched by 65 Mothership (remember, each planet gets 10 MS in their Daily Planetary Defence Assignment, refreshed daily.)
A space battle ensues, destroying 7 of Forum's Mothership and 7 of Juliette's Mothership
Juliette did manage to transport their troops to the ground.
The ground army consisted of:
1 Smoker armed as follows:

1 Smoker have Energy Satellite **


Opposite this, stood the forces of Forum

Forum resisted the aggressors with:
65 Mothership
10 Servant Guard.
The units were carrying the following arsenal:

2 Servant Guard have Matter Anti-Matter Converter
2 Servant Guard have Anti-Kenetic Field Catalyzer
2 Servant Guard have Lana Recon Probe


In a fury, the two opposing forces clash!


The forces of Juliette rush in full force, and inflict 4,618,400 damage on Forum's forces!
It was confirmed that 1 of Forum's forces fell at the hands of Juliette's assult.


The forces of Forum fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 315,500 damage on Juliette's forces!
They managed to eradicate 0 of Juliette's troops.



Putting down the chronicled battle report, you cross reference and call for the corrosponding military armory reports to see the state of your weapons after such a battle...

Your Energy Satellite ** went from strength 10,000 to 9,940 (now 9940/10000 and 1 percent damaged)
Your Energy Tower went from strength 1,000 to 895 (now 895/1000 and 11 percent damaged)



The forces of Juliette subdued those of Forum
The forces of Forum flee from the battlefield! One could see glory on the face of the victors, and spite on the defeated!

99,999,900 Naquadah was taken from the realm of Forum

Many wonder if Forum will consider retaliation, but - when force meets force - there will have to be some changes in the preparedness of Forum before such a feat should wisely be considered!


Your excess military force finds itself bored, having done as much damage as they reasonably could.
You are not 100% sure, but you do not remember seeing so many dead Sacrificer when you arrived...
[/spoiler2]

So while your point is valid in theory, it is based on incorrect (or rather, incomplete) information. :)
We will revisit this subject in the future. It is good to see you and others thinking along. :D
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Re: Motherships

what about you cant have low MS echivalent with your ascend level...for example for lev 11 ascensions..i belive you have 40 or 45 MS fleets you cant lose under that 40 fleets...for lev 20 is 100 fleets if i,m right...so when you reach that level you cant have under 100 fleets no matter what...second admin must put something to can defend your MS...right now anybody can mass your MS no matter what...is not right...
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Re: Motherships

™LoT wrote:what about you cant have low MS echivalent with your ascend level...for example for lev 11 ascensions..i belive you have 40 or 45 MS fleets you cant lose under that 40 fleets...for lev 20 is 100 fleets if i,m right...so when you reach that level you cant have under 100 fleets no matter what...second admin must put something to can defend your MS...right now anybody can mass your MS no matter what...is not right...


Agreed, either min MS limit related to ascension or something like if your MS power is 5x theirs you don't lose anything (both on attack and defense).
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Re: Motherships

you have to careful with any changes though. Remember at some point people will finish ascending, what happens then? If they can build a MS large enough to get past this proposed modifier so they do not lose anything when attacking then they can effectively mass the entire games MS's for no losses.

All it would take is 1 player to be a douchebag after they are done ascending and they can cheaply and easily keep a lot of other players from reaching max ascension.

I mean yes they can do that anyway, but at least now they are forced to lose MS parts doing so which is no bad thing.
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Re: Motherships

no borek ..the point is after few atacks you can take only 990k per hit with your 10-or 15 level..is not right you know...will be soon ppl with 100 mil out and you cant farm him good...some ppl can log in one time on 2 days because nobody will atack him...so what is wrong if you cant lose less than your MS after your last acension?...who want to have a better one he can build.second i have few friends who will keep you down evry day so you cant hurt me...and you know what you dont know who want you down because any acc from this game can keep you ther no matter how small he is or not...is only one example how bad is for the moment MS battle....
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Juliette
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Re: Motherships

You can farm them just fine. All you need to do is remain aware of Mothership count, invest-invest-invest. And if you do not invest, you will end up with an unfavourable situation.

What did you expect.. when you send hundreds of motherships in, the chances of a 'lucky shot' increase ten- to a hundredfold.
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Re: Motherships

nobody can invest in MS right now...not for any amount on the curent game lol....
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Juliette
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Re: Motherships

™LoT wrote:nobody can invest in MS right now...not for any amount on the curent game lol....
Hm, why not? Is there something wrong with the purchasing of MSes?
I bought MS, worked just fine. So I wonder what the problem is. :)

If it is cost, then maybe you should consider that you are trying to maintain an army of MSes that is too big to sustain. You need to be able to cover at least the losses with every attack you make; lose 1 MS, costs are 1M Naq and 50 UU. Cover that with your steal, and you are in the green.

The tiny armysizes of the majority of players is nowhere near able to sustain the big numbers of MSes people get when they ascend; you are bound to lose some, and be brought back down to size. :) Make a few good hits, invest in UP, get yourself some Ascension Helpers and when your base is solid, go into MS production. Return on investment for Newgrounds is a new field of study.. just because people have a hard time figuring it out does not -yet- mean that it is unbalanced. ;)


Of course, when it IS unbalanced, we will act on it, with caution. :)
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