Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

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xdjoker
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Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

As discussed in my other thread on what were the reasons behind the current update. I would like to formally put a request to re balance the broken raiding efficiency. According to Juliette the update was put in place as a means of having a soft cap towards the raiding cap.

Juliette wrote:Since one of the principles of NewGrounds is 'not to allow infinite growth', we put an Armysize limit on raiding. Initially, that limit would have been '100% cutoff' like in Main. I considered that too strict, as I am more of supporter of the 'soft cap' position (hence UP price increase instead of straight ceiling). We do still have a solid cap; but that one is at a high level (12M).


But In the current state of the raiding efficiency is in fact a solid cap at about 1/3 of the official cut off of 12 mil units when raiding.
Evidence of this:
I am currently at 3.4 mil army size and when raiding a person with 310K units out (which i think the highest currently out is around 380K units) The max i can get per raid is 1.5K units. Now with a Daily UP of only 67,000 that would take about 45 attacks which is about 360 turns. Now daily turns produce at 192 a day so for someone without supporter status there would be no way for them to raid to their cap and its almost to the point where even with supporter status one wont be able to do it.

So by 4 mil army size raiding will be almost definitely impossible because of the number of attacks one would have to do with a restricted amount of turns.

Now I did post a possible rebalance for this system and i would like Juliettes input on it as well as everyone elses.
xdjoker wrote:1. Instead of having the raiding efficiency drop so dramatically after 3 mil army size and every 100k units. I propose that at 3 mil the amount you can raid per attack drops by 10%.
So it would work like this:
3 Mil your at 90%, 4 mil 80%, 5 mil 70%, 6 mil 60%, 7 mil 50%, 8 mil 40%, 9 mil 30%, 10 mil 20%, 11 mil 10% and then finally you hit 12 mil where your at 0% which is the official raiding cap.
This system may still be a little to steep so it may need a little adjusting but it is almost definitely better then the current system
Slim87R
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

xdjoker wrote:As discussed in my other thread on what were the reasons behind the current update. I would like to formally put a request to re balance the broken raiding efficiency. According to Juliette the update was put in place as a means of having a soft cap towards the raiding cap.

Juliette wrote:Since one of the principles of NewGrounds is 'not to allow infinite growth', we put an Armysize limit on raiding. Initially, that limit would have been '100% cutoff' like in Main. I considered that too strict, as I am more of supporter of the 'soft cap' position (hence UP price increase instead of straight ceiling). We do still have a solid cap; but that one is at a high level (12M).


But In the current state of the raiding efficiency is in fact a solid cap at about 1/3 of the official cut off of 12 mil units when raiding.
Evidence of this:
I am currently at 3.4 mil army size and when raiding a person with 310K units out (which i think the highest currently out is around 380K units) The max i can get per raid is 1.5K units. Now with a Daily UP of only 67,000 that would take about 45 attacks which is about 360 turns. Now daily turns produce at 192 a day so for someone without supporter status there would be no way for them to raid to their cap and its almost to the point where even with supporter status one wont be able to do it.

So by 4 mil army size raiding will be almost definitely impossible because of the number of attacks one would have to do with a restricted amount of turns.

Now I did post a possible rebalance for this system and i would like Juliettes input on it as well as everyone elses.
xdjoker wrote:1. Instead of having the raiding efficiency drop so dramatically after 3 mil army size and every 100k units. I propose that at 3 mil the amount you can raid per attack drops by 10%.
So it would work like this:
3 Mil your at 90%, 4 mil 80%, 5 mil 70%, 6 mil 60%, 7 mil 50%, 8 mil 40%, 9 mil 30%, 10 mil 20%, 11 mil 10% and then finally you hit 12 mil where your at 0% which is the official raiding cap.
This system may still be a little to steep so it may need a little adjusting but it is almost definitely better then the current system


I think this is a great idea. It does look like the cutoff is very steep, to an overkill level. The cutoff is so steep that the TFF gap between us is closing rapidly. You used To be a full million TFF ahead of me and now the gap is a mere 670k.

The point is that the system is definitely broken once it becomes physically impossible to do your full daily raid within 1 days worth of turns.

Jokers solution takes care of the turn problem AND you get to keep your soft cap. This also makes it viable to grow and then ascend. With the system how it is now the people who decided to ascend and then grow will catch us fast and have a massive advantage which = imbalance. Because now ascending becomes a problem for us unless we have a strong alliance backing us to help us grow.
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Slim87R
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Okay, so now raiding is getting really bad. I haven't even passed the 4 mil TFF mark yet and it took a full 64 raids to get my max raid for the day. That is 512 turns. The raiding efficiency decrease is way too steep. By the time I get to 4 mil TFF, just 1 mil after the decreasing of efficiency starts, it looks like it will take 700+ turns for a daily raid. So that 12 million raid cap does not exist in effect. The cap is now far below that unless you want to spend 10k turns raiding for 1 day and utterly destroying everyone's defense due to having to mass them for UU. I am already massing 3 people a day in effect to get UU.

Edit: You earn 192 turns a day, and can receive 192 turns a day. So technically I already hit that cap far below 12 million. I cannot achieve full raid capacity on my daily turns plus full turn transfer. As soon as my turns go away I will have to settle for less in raids daily because I physically cannot get the full raid, which means I am capped. I am emphasizing the cap before the stated cap.
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xdjoker
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

**Filtered** wrote:Okay, so now raiding is getting really bad. I haven't even passed the 4 mil TFF mark yet and it took a full 64 raids to get my max raid for the day. That is 512 turns. The raiding efficiency decrease is way too steep. By the time I get to 4 mil TFF, just 1 mil after the decreasing of efficiency starts, it looks like it will take 700+ turns for a daily raid. So that 12 million raid cap does not exist in effect. The cap is now far below that unless you want to spend 10k turns raiding for 1 day and utterly destroying everyone's defense due to having to mass them for UU. I am already massing 3 people a day in effect to get UU.

Edit: You earn 192 turns a day, and can receive 192 turns a day. So technically I already hit that cap far below 12 million. I cannot achieve full raid capacity on my daily turns plus full turn transfer. As soon as my turns go away I will have to settle for less in raids daily because I physically cannot get the full raid, which means I am capped. I am emphasizing the cap before the stated cap.


Same is happening to me im dying here it took 61 raids on someone who had 340k units out to get my max. That freaking 488 turns while were maxed at only generating 192 turns and receiving 192 for a total of 384 turns a day. So hopefully Julliette yall will get this fixed soon because this update is basically like a knife has been stuck in us and were just slowly dying
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Meanwhile on the other end of the galaxy I raid 2500 units a day :)
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HippyFool
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

It is not fair that people need more turns per day than can possibly be generated in 1 day.

Maybe that would be ok at 8m+ or something... but 1mil afterwards? That is crazy.

Essentially you have lowered the "you cannot raid after 12mil" to more like 5 or 6m. There is a raid cap for a reason, why punish people before that?
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Slim87R
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

I thought I would give an update on how bad this is. 3.9 mil TFF, still under 4 mil. To get my daily raid of 68k, I had to raid a total of 83 times over the course of 3 people in order to make sure that the person I was raiding was over 300k. That is 664 turns. It looks like I am on track to being right about it requiring 700+ turns to raid at the 4 mil TFF point. Why are we being capped this hard so early? That 12 mil raid cap might as well not exist.
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xdjoker
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

**Filtered** wrote:I thought I would give an update on how bad this is. 3.9 mil TFF, still under 4 mil. To get my daily raid of 68k, I had to raid a total of 83 times over the course of 3 people in order to make sure that the person I was raiding was over 300k. That is 664 turns. It looks like I am on track to being right about it requiring 700+ turns to raid at the 4 mil TFF point. Why are we being capped this hard so early? That 12 mil raid cap might as well not exist.


**Filtered** it looks like raiding will be a thing of the past for us because its gonna be a while until they finally fix this horrible raiding efficiency imbalance. By this time tomorrow i will no longer have the turns to fully raid my cap anymore even with turns being sent to me. At which point i will only be able to raid half of my daily UP and it will only get worst from there.
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Juliette
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Patience, we are considering the 'fix' as proposed. Weighing options at the moment. :)
(Definitely not going to put this in before tomorrow, though. Expectation management.)

If we agree on it (per 1m drop, not per 100k) then it will be put in either in the course of Friday, during the weekend, or early on next week. (That is all the timeline I can give.)
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xdjoker
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Juliette wrote:Patience, we are considering the 'fix' as proposed. Weighing options at the moment. :)
(Definitely not going to put this in before tomorrow, though. Expectation management.)

If we agree on it (per 1m drop, not per 100k) then it will be put in either in the course of Friday, during the weekend, or early on next week. (That is all the timeline I can give.)


Thanks for the update Juliette. Its just a little nerve racking when my stockpile of about 4k turns drops to 200 in about 10 days time and all im really doing is raiding.
Slim87R
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Just a little update that will hopefully speed the update along... :D

4.2 mil TFF after today's raid. I had to raid 105 times. That is 840 turns. Probably going to take up a whole page to myself in the galactic logs, LOL.
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Slim87R
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Another update, and now I am a little upset with the highway robbery going on here. I had over 1k turns, and I couldn't even raid for my max before running out of turns. 132 raids. I got aprrox 75% of my max capacity before using up over 1k turns.

Please fix this as soon as possible.
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Slim87R
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Any kind of plan in the works yet? I have given up on raiding for the time being. Now I am just trading naq for UU.
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Juliette
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

It is on the to-do list for this week. :)
Be prepared.
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Juliette
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Re: Rebalancing of the Raiding Efficiency

Juliette wrote:It is on the to-do list for this week. :)
Be prepared.

1M increments vs. 100k increment; Implemented.
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