Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

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Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

Hi guys and girls, it is I, your friendly neighbourhood admin. (aka Frazz' mom)
You and I will be the ones talking in this thread, while Sol is working on the tournament and other important things (including the development track of things we discuss here).
(Building on a.o. the discussion in this thread.)


This post serves to loop you, the players, in on the progress of our revising of the APP-conversion.

Sol and I have been looking at a variety suggestions, options ranging from the simple, maybe dull but straightforward, ("speed up conversion") to the more creative and adventurous ("find other uses for APP") and the almost absurd ("give us avatar roles" - what ARE those even). Note that we are still in the development phase (even pre-development for some elements), and that any figures can (nay, will!) change over time. I will keep this information as neutral as possible while being as transparent as possible on where we stand, without making statements that we cannot come back from.


Right now, what we can definitely say about the upcoming changes is this:
- that a neutral measure of activity will help to speed up APP conversion;
- that alongside APP and descension, other interactions with Main will be introduced;
- that APP will no longer be the only resource gained through ascensions;
- that APP and its companion resources will start playing a role in the 'life' of Demigods;
- that the options for Demis will be expanded, new missions, mini-descensions, a smorgasbord of options;
- and that there is yet more coming up.

For these ideas we have borrowed from different suggestions (both the very old and the fairly recent, made in private as well as in public). While many things might not be as the original suggester had intended them, we work to ensure that in conjunction with each other, these implementations have the following effects:
- increase your tactical options and strategic depth of choice;
- have a (controlled) effect on Main accounts and vice-versa;
- streamline and improve Demi-play;
- make sure that Main ascensions are 'worth it' (there is a strong Main component to that as well);
- significantly boost the chaos dynamic.




To all who are fixated on APP and conversion rates, please, bear with us. (Hey, I completely understand, it is currently one of only two links to Main, the other being descension, and you can channel Main resources directly into your Ascended account this way, not to mention it is what makes ascensions worth it!)
TL;DR: Three affirmations:
- Yes, building a significant supply of APP will have its uses.
- Yes, massive caches of APP will continue to take time to clear (although it can be less than before - looking at you, You-know-who).
- You will find APP clears quicker as you are active, and the overflow will be worth spending on the things you will get to spend it on.
- Yes, you can be sure you will not lose out if you ascend before these updates come in.


As mentioned, on this subject you and I will be talking.
Hope these statements give you an idea of the scope of our angle on this and some faith for the future. ;)
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

I asked in the other thread but I'll ask here too

what if any change is being made to the convert APP to turns on ascended?
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

Where to start Mom - cant resist - just need the absent dad

this I think at least gives us hope that the ascension process and benefit to the game longer term will be worth it

the following
Right now, what we can definitely say about the upcoming changes is this:
- that a neutral measure of activity will help to speed up APP conversion;
- that alongside APP and descension, other interactions with Main will be introduced;
- that APP will no longer be the only resource gained through ascensions;
- that APP and its companion resources will start playing a role in the 'life' of Demigods;
- that the options for Demis will be expanded, new missions, mini-descensions, a smorgasbord of options;
- and that there is yet more coming up.
are things that would add benefit to ascended and dynamic that is needed I have had many rants yea I will call them rants about this and also suggestions about what to do and not do

along with app we all know who it is (tziki hahah) its important due to the overall resources invested

but if changes give us even half the above abilities and options I can accept the app solution along with said unnamed resources

I will say when hololens come out I do expect that I will be in the captains chair of ms/cs while playing just one for the way future there - avatar
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

I like these things being put forward looking to reading more on it.

I was goign to surgest that we could have the old button of transfer all in one go , but at half of what total you have or just leave it as it is, then the ppl have the choice if they want to w8 for it all that being a long time, or take it all right away but get half.

But reading above i think could hold off on maybe that.

One of the biggets problem is ppl with App are held back with not being able to use turn refill, might not seem alot but it really is not just for farmign but for wrecks too.

Maybe havign that one a separte timer?
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teesdale wrote:im going to start calling you Mathod man... because i swear to god your as dense as Mathlord is when it comes to arguing.

Ignore valid points from everyone else and believe your own verbal diarrhea, the pair of you.
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

reborn wrote:I like these things being put forward looking to reading more on it.

I was goign to surgest that we could have the old button of transfer all in one go , but at half of what total you have or just leave it as it is, then the ppl have the choice if they want to w8 for it all that being a long time, or take it all right away but get half.

But reading above i think could hold off on maybe that.

One of the biggets problem is ppl with App are held back with not being able to use turn refill, might not seem alot but it really is not just for farmign but for wrecks too.

Maybe havign that one a separte timer?

I agree, i think the whole "convert all app in one go" is just too simple, there needs to be some complexity behind it. It needs to have more choices so it's makes you work out the best route and obtain more benefits then just spending on stats to build up.

We could do with a separate box, transfer app to convert into turns or even more app you got, quicker turn production. This could allow people with app who don't mind waiting ages, benefit more.
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

~NyX~ wrote:and if APP is changed does that mean the option to convert to turns is removed/altered too?
Currently, it will remain, and will do in the foreseeable future.
reborn wrote: One of the biggets problem is ppl with App are held back with not being able to use turn refill, might not seem alot but it really is not just for farmign but for wrecks too.
I've provided information regarding this problem several times, but I'll give a refresher.

People with app convert around 110 quad dmu per 14 days (depends on your planet count) missing out on 4k turns per 21 days (varies slightly). So that's 165 quad per 21 days = 4k turns. These people don't get the 4k turn bonus from APP.

The current active farming rate is about 107 quad dmu per 14 days using an average of 2,962 turns, extrapolating we get 160.5 quad per 21 days = 4,443 turns.
These people get the 4k turn bonus from APP.

Give or take a few terrible farm runs, a few good ones, losing your planets so your conversion rate decreases, demi modifiers etc. I see those two effectively cancelling. The difference is the person converting APP doesn't need to farm to keep up at all, takes 0 effort. The person who farms, has to farm for 21 days to stay at the same level.
On top of that, you have 4k turns to use for whatever you want. Wreckages (which you will get wreckage turns back) massing, more farming etc.
In the meantime, the farms aren't absolutely drained of resources and become scarce so it's better overall. This is already happening as well, so those numbers take into account the effects of freeing up farms.

It's not a problem.
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

Couple of ideas.

1. Maybe making a personal ability of turn production.
2. Every 21 days having the option to convert APP into full turns or a set amount of LF cashe.
3. When you ascend you get 25% of total APP converted and the other 75% will leak in. This way you get a little boost but not anything crazy instead of not getting anything right away.
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

Sol wrote:
~NyX~ wrote:and if APP is changed does that mean the option to convert to turns is removed/altered too?
Currently, it will remain, and will do in the foreseeable future.
reborn wrote: One of the biggets problem is ppl with App are held back with not being able to use turn refill, might not seem alot but it really is not just for farmign but for wrecks too.
I've provided information regarding this problem several times, but I'll give a refresher.

People with app convert around 110 quad dmu per 14 days (depends on your planet count) missing out on 4k turns per 21 days (varies slightly). So that's 165 quad per 21 days = 4k turns. These people don't get the 4k turn bonus from APP.

The current active farming rate is about 107 quad dmu per 14 days using an average of 2,962 turns, extrapolating we get 160.5 quad per 21 days = 4,443 turns.
These people get the 4k turn bonus from APP.

Give or take a few terrible farm runs, a few good ones, losing your planets so your conversion rate decreases, demi modifiers etc. I see those two effectively cancelling. The difference is the person converting APP doesn't need to farm to keep up at all, takes 0 effort. The person who farms, has to farm for 21 days to stay at the same level.
On top of that, you have 4k turns to use for whatever you want. Wreckages (which you will get wreckage turns back) massing, more farming etc.
In the meantime, the farms aren't absolutely drained of resources and become scarce so it's better overall. This is already happening as well, so those numbers take into account the effects of freeing up farms.

It's not a problem.

See this is were we seem to disagree on some things.

I will agree over set time ppl that have app will be convertign which means they dont have to farm to the ppl that have turn refill.

Even though for me at 21 days for APP i will get 120 quad with turns during that time with 8 bil planet size.

Saying you have to farm everyday to use up those 4k turns just aint right, everyone knows you can use up 4k turns in 1 to 3 runs, and then have days off doing nothing and still pull in that amount. Its not much effort more like 30 mins out of your 21 days to use those tunrs up.

Now this is the point i have always been trying to make. The ppl with APP have have spent all their lvls/u,p w/e to get that APP, that wants to boost their account.

But way you have it , its were it doesnt matter what they put into account they come out even, yes means less effort, but shouldnt there be a reawrd for ppl that are active? The ones that put alot into getting app plus being active on ascended. Thats 4k turns were they could just stick into Wrecks cus they didnt need to farm to stay even. Or maybe they just want to farm with those extra 4k turns to give their account a little more boost.

Way i see it and many others is u punish ppl with ascending alot, cus its either sit back and do nothing, or farm and ascend with nothing, giving ascending with nothin infact being the better opion, one reason why i bought 12 lvls cus it was pointless ascending with anything.
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teesdale wrote:im going to start calling you Mathod man... because i swear to god your as dense as Mathlord is when it comes to arguing.

Ignore valid points from everyone else and believe your own verbal diarrhea, the pair of you.
i just accidently abandoned that planet i just took
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

reborn wrote:
Sol wrote:
~NyX~ wrote:and if APP is changed does that mean the option to convert to turns is removed/altered too?
Currently, it will remain, and will do in the foreseeable future.
reborn wrote: One of the biggets problem is ppl with App are held back with not being able to use turn refill, might not seem alot but it really is not just for farmign but for wrecks too.
I've provided information regarding this problem several times, but I'll give a refresher.

People with app convert around 110 quad dmu per 14 days (depends on your planet count) missing out on 4k turns per 21 days (varies slightly). So that's 165 quad per 21 days = 4k turns. These people don't get the 4k turn bonus from APP.

The current active farming rate is about 107 quad dmu per 14 days using an average of 2,962 turns, extrapolating we get 160.5 quad per 21 days = 4,443 turns.
These people get the 4k turn bonus from APP.

Give or take a few terrible farm runs, a few good ones, losing your planets so your conversion rate decreases, demi modifiers etc. I see those two effectively cancelling. The difference is the person converting APP doesn't need to farm to keep up at all, takes 0 effort. The person who farms, has to farm for 21 days to stay at the same level.
On top of that, you have 4k turns to use for whatever you want. Wreckages (which you will get wreckage turns back) massing, more farming etc.
In the meantime, the farms aren't absolutely drained of resources and become scarce so it's better overall. This is already happening as well, so those numbers take into account the effects of freeing up farms.

It's not a problem.

See this is were we seem to disagree on some things.

I will agree over set time ppl that have app will be convertign which means they dont have to farm to the ppl that have turn refill.

Even though for me at 21 days for APP i will get 120 quad with turns during that time with 8 bil planet size.

Saying you have to farm everyday to use up those 4k turns just aint right, everyone knows you can use up 4k turns in 1 to 3 runs, and then have days off doing nothing and still pull in that amount. Its not much effort more like 30 mins out of your 21 days to use those tunrs up.

Now this is the point i have always been trying to make. The ppl with APP have have spent all their lvls/u,p w/e to get that APP, that wants to boost their account.

But way you have it , its were it doesnt matter what they put into account they come out even, yes means less effort, but shouldnt there be a reawrd for ppl that are active? The ones that put alot into getting app plus being active on ascended. Thats 4k turns were they could just stick into Wrecks cus they didnt need to farm to stay even. Or maybe they just want to farm with those extra 4k turns to give their account a little more boost.

Way i see it and many others is u punish ppl with ascending alot, cus its either sit back and do nothing, or farm and ascend with nothing, giving ascending with nothin infact being the better opion, one reason why i bought 12 lvls cus it was pointless ascending with anything.
Very well said. I feel both of these would help this problem
Phobetor wrote: 2. Every 21 days having the option to convert APP into full turns or a set amount of LF cashe.
3. When you ascend you get 25% of total APP converted and the other 75% will leak in. This way you get a little boost but not anything crazy instead of not getting anything right away.
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

I kindly urge all parties involved to refrain from the trench warfare of the "Speed up APP conversion" thread. It is a new world we are discussing.
The scope of these changes far outreaches the mere question "how fast should APP convert?", and until you grasp what new role APP and its companion resources will play, you cannot say "Oh, but APP conversion must be increased.." Nor can you, for that matter, start repeating the same administrative arguments. Move on, the paradigm is changing.

This thread is all about the big picture. Little things will require balancing, but will always need an overarching principle to guide the act of balancing.



This is a useful principle in general. Of course -hypothetically- any such instant conversion would be related to the minimum requirements in Main as opposed to the actual APP from an ascension 'over the limit'. As previously illustrated the 'overflow' from 'big' ascensions will be used to power other options/events (see OP), offering a useful 'reward' for a big ascension without directly injecting LFC/DMU.
Phobetor wrote:3. When you ascend you get 25% of total APP converted and the other 75% will leak in. This way you get a little boost but not anything crazy instead of not getting anything right away.

That option remains a choice you can make. (I'll echo Sol's caveat, "for the foreseeable future", but we have a very long term vision.)
~NyX~ wrote:what if any change is being made to the convert APP to turns on ascended?

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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

Plx forgive me if i wasnt clear on first post.

With the new things being put forward, im not sayign speed it up any more, cus you are giving more ways on how to spend the LF were we aint w8ing 13 yrs.

For me thats a very big plus, as i said lookign forward to reading more.

But i also said above with working out if u ascend with nothing and going from Sols on cals. 4k turns on adv will bring in around 160 quad dmu.

Now the same time i would w8 on 8 bil planets that being 21 says i pull in 120 quad worth of LF. Im being short changed of 40quad worth of LF because i ascended with APP.

We ascended to boost are accounts so shoudlnt that 120 quad worth of LF be some of the benefit? Not as a punishment were others can get turn refill for free, get more dmu than u would on app and get it from doing nothing apart from clickign refill. There is really no effort needed 4k turns is used in 30 mins, u have 21 days to do that in.

This aint the first time we have bought this up too, cus it was linked with APP and we been saying about this for over a couple yrs.

We even said why does this have to be turns to farm with why can it not be wreck turns you click every refill so all get it. That way doesnt punish ppl for ascending with APP.
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teesdale wrote:im going to start calling you Mathod man... because i swear to god your as dense as Mathlord is when it comes to arguing.

Ignore valid points from everyone else and believe your own verbal diarrhea, the pair of you.
i just accidently abandoned that planet i just took
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

so in a lot of ways we are all agreed APP is an issue and the cost of going for big ascensions

sols calc although are probably exact to the server they are taking into account the whole server I am assuming and not the top 10 even top 20 farmers and they are farming more than that average by a bit more often than not over the year

and at that point we look at the issue is it the app or the turn refill that is the issue as people don't want to lose out on either

thinking now its probably more the turn refill that is the issue as to take it might farm lose app or have to stop for turns to rebuild

my suggestion to this is take away turn refill increase turn limit 5k and then it no longer becomes an issue from an app point of view the farmers still can farm and benefit from ascensions the ones who want to pick up lf only get to and turns arnt affected

on the other side I would say decrease turn generation to balance this out a little

that's more my thinking around app release just now
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

frazz wrote:so in a lot of ways we are all agreed APP is an issue and the cost of going for big ascensions

sols calc although are probably exact to the server they are taking into account the whole server I am assuming and not the top 10 even top 20 farmers and they are farming more than that average by a bit more often than not over the year

and at that point we look at the issue is it the app or the turn refill that is the issue as people don't want to lose out on either

thinking now its probably more the turn refill that is the issue as to take it might farm lose app or have to stop for turns to rebuild

my suggestion to this is take away turn refill increase turn limit 5k and then it no longer becomes an issue from an app point of view the farmers still can farm and benefit from ascensions the ones who want to pick up lf only get to and turns arnt affected

on the other side I would say decrease turn generation to balance this out a little

that's more my thinking around app release just now
None of that makes any sense what so ever. You want to remove the turn refill, increase the turns cap to 5k (which does nothing), and reduce turn generation. I don't even know where to start.... ](*,)
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

I know second post but meh

I think moving on from app release rate id prob like to see what we could use app and why some prob mentioned already

demi gods - power increase
demi god missions - different types than just wreckages
purchasing demi god - I want an asguard def one (100 t if anyone tells me how - and I get it)
cs cloaking devices button - short term(cant mass what cant see
cs power infusion weps/shields
toc boost - short term att/def
additional buttons for turns/gates/cosmic expansion/income - all short term boosts
resources - mass/enery etc
att squadrens for cs
boosts to main - for short periods

I like the though of a hyper button that would drain app at an exponential rate while activated on account that boosts all stats but weakens defence

this just some anyone have anything else or want to expand on these
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Re: Ascension Power Points?! What's happening?

Clockwork wrote:
frazz wrote:so in a lot of ways we are all agreed APP is an issue and the cost of going for big ascensions

sols calc although are probably exact to the server they are taking into account the whole server I am assuming and not the top 10 even top 20 farmers and they are farming more than that average by a bit more often than not over the year

and at that point we look at the issue is it the app or the turn refill that is the issue as people don't want to lose out on either

thinking now its probably more the turn refill that is the issue as to take it might farm lose app or have to stop for turns to rebuild

my suggestion to this is take away turn refill increase turn limit 5k and then it no longer becomes an issue from an app point of view the farmers still can farm and benefit from ascensions the ones who want to pick up lf only get to and turns arnt affected

on the other side I would say decrease turn generation to balance this out a little

that's more my thinking around app release just now
None of that makes any sense what so ever. You want to remove the turn refill, increase the turns cap to 5k (which does nothing), and reduce turn generation. I don't even know where to start.... ](*,)
to me it does everyone wants the app to increased or something different to be done with it they lose it due to the turn refill

so remove turn refill the app is not lost increase the turn cap and it covers a little efor loss of turn refill for the non app players

and the reduction of turns - is to offset against the app players but there has to be a level of turns generated that doesn't go anywhere near exceeding turns of using a turn refill a middle ground in a way theres no point just removing to keep the turns so you get more over that 2 week-3 week period to me defeats the purpose

does that make more sense
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