Nitro abusing MS bug

[Neimenljivi]

Your MS had/has 3,064.6 bil power, not 3,250 bil power.

The bug is not the figure in the command center. MSs were way overpowered as they had like 5x bigger power than attack and defense, with the same amount of naq put in. This enabled sniping an offline account being a breeze as MSs were cheap and they can be massed when a person is offline without real effort. The stats, on the other hand, were a lot more expensive. I brought this to admin's attention and told him that in my opinion MSs need to be nerfed and brought to the same power as strike and def. He agreed which is why he made them 5x smaller.
There was a message in command center for a few days to alert people of this. It said something like "Mid-era update: MSs were too powerful which is why they've been reduced by 5 fold" (note: I don't remember the exact words but that was the message).

How do I know what the bug is? Simply - I communicated with admin and he told me in a PM that a fix was MS power/5. So no, while I am not an admin nor a tester, which no one but admin J is, the discussion isn't based on my opinion, which you think is biased, but on the message that was in command center and on my discussion with admin and his words.

It is correct that the bug would still occur - however if you had increased your ground strike then you wouldn't be relaying on the bug as your ground strike + actual MS strike power would have been enough to beat my defense, whereas without having increased your ground strike your actual MS strike power would not have been enough to beat the defense. If you had increased your ground strike I wouldn't have banned you as I would see that you wouldn't have relied on the bug to get through my defense, as you would, with that setup get, through it with your ground strike (again, if it was bigger) + actual strike on MS; your setup being as it was though resulted in you getting through with your ground strike + bugged MS strike as actual MS strike wouldn't have sufficed.
Would defense have fallen quicker? Perhaps it would, an attack or two sooner, but it would take more naq, more ATs spent farming, more units lost as well as repairs and all the other things that come with bigger stats are higher. And this wouldn't take 2 attacks, but a lot more to cover the difference.

Do you understand my perspective now?

~Jack

[Coulson]

Can't you summarize it, lots of Quantum players're wanting to know what's it all about.
Everyone's walking into this trap. Half-finished update by admin's nothing you're can blame users for. No matter how enlightened your perspecitve's.
It's like arresting a dude for sleeping outside bcz he sleeps in his own house that's unfinished by builders.

[malbrega]

[quote="Neimenljivi"][color=#FF4000]Your MS had/has 3,064.6 bil power, not 3,250 bil power.

still enough to do the job so your point is????

[Neimenljivi]

You confirmed you built 1/2 of my def in strike. MS doubled the strike. 3,064.6 bil is not exactly very close to 3,450 bil so it wouldn't be able to double your strike and especially not so until my MS was completely down. So it wouldn't be enough to do the job with as few ATs and as little repair naq.

Gregor - As long as their actual MS strike is more than their ground strike and, if they do intend to mass someone, as long as their actual MS strike + their ground strike are enough to do it with the same amount of ATs (meaning they don't first have to totally zero the opponents MS or anything like that in order to get through someone else's defence, if there was no bug) I don't see a problem. The problem I see is with people who have actual MS strike smaller than their ground strike and use the bug to be able to double their strike without which they aren't able to use as few ATs as they do to mass someone. This is as summarized as I can do.
I don't blame those that are affected by the bug, I blame those that use the bug to their advantage. That's a big difference

Think of it this way - someone has 40 tril def. Huge def. Someone has 4 tril actual MS strike. That someone builds a 20T strike and, due to the bug, his MS can add up to 20T damage to ground attack. This means that someone who could actually inflict 24T damage MAX to another, if it weren't for the bug, used the bug to inflict 40T damage. Would you not call this a bug abuse?
Now take someone who builds a 35T ground strike and has 5T MS strike. It's true that he would be able to inflict 60T damage, however that isn't relaying on the bug as he could have inflicted enough damage (40T) that is equal or greater than the opposing defense. As there is no way around this bug right now - one can simply choose to either use the bug to their advantage or to not use it and show s/he is able to do it without the bug.
The numbers are different than those in my and Nitro's case, but the principle stays the same - he couldn't have inflicted the damage equal or greater than my defense if it weren't for the bug as he has admitted that he built 1/2 of my defense's power in strike and let MS handle the other 1/2 of my defense power.

~Jack

[malbrega]

By halving my total MS power you are assuming I have an equal proportion of Attack weapons and Shields, but this is not the case. Hence halfing the total power of the mothership as a whole to estimate my attack capacity was an inaccurate assumption. I have consistently maintained a higher ratio of attack to shields.

And even if it was only 3000b that would have given me a 6000b strike which would still have killed you as easily.. as more than your defence.

I finally rest my case and I hope this proves my innocense in the matter.

Although you may like to stick to your original posts, where the whole community is not in agreement.

To say your mothership died fast and wasnt fair is irrelevant as I can not attack you without my ship.

[Neimenljivi]

I didn't get your MS's strike action from halving your total MS power (which I don't know and I only estimated) - I got it from attack log by dividing the damage inflicted by 5 (which you can see in one of the previous posts). The shields, which are totally irrelevant when it comes to adding the MS's strike to ground strike, were the only thing I speculated on.

Would it? 6,110 billion was one of the damages my defense did against you, and I don't think it was a 100%. So it wasn't more than my defense. And you would have to have leveled my MS completely before-hand.

I never said how fast my MS went out was relevant. I said how quickly your MS started adding a lot more attack to ground strike than it should was relevant. My MS would have been leveled with the same amount of ATs as both of our MSs were bugged so percentage-wise, MS to MS, things were completely the same. However the absolute difference in powers between MSs - strike of one MS vs the whole power of the opposing MS, was bigger which allowed for more strike add-on and for your MS adding a lot more strike faster than it should to your ground troops. Without this bug - you would first have to had leveled my MS to gain less power to your strike than you did now before you even leveled my MS.

~Jack

[malbrega]

Jacks defence------------Nitros Attacks
5,747 billion--------------6,325 billion details
5,871 billion--------------5,444 billion details
5,936 billion--------------4,611 billion details
5,467 billion--------------3,798 billion details
5,948 billion--------------3,235 billion details

I dont see you over 6000b here...

just one attack over 6100b from you is prob as statisticaly above shows. being that was at the start of the attacks. once i hit you with a few 15 attacks you would be far less.

[Neimenljivi]

Jun 30, 2012 Nitro Attack defended 1 113 123 6,029 billion 3,120 billion details
Jun 30, 2012 Nitro Attack defended 1 107 131 5,975 billion 3,299 billion details
Jun 30, 2012 Nitro Attack defended 1 99 143 5,443 billion 3,252 billion details
Jun 30, 2012 Nitro Attack defended 1 117 122 6,046 billion 3,068 billion details
Jun 30, 2012 Nitro Attack defended 1 105 136 6,110 billion 3,453 billion details

First few attacks.

Funny - how can you see the attack logs if you are banned? Ah yes, the commander you have.. Someone who you claimed you have not heard of and fed you against your will, then you started defending after being banned and finally joined as an officer. Funny how things work, huh? 3 minutes after this you were already able to check and post here some of the attack logs. It is almost if you had the ability to login to that account.

Yes my defense would have dropped, of course it would. But you would first have to level my MS and use more ATs to mass my defense.

You also admitted to have built 1/2 of my defense in your strike - I don't know my exact defense as I was away for about a day, but since you admitted to have built 1/2 of my defense in your strike and you had 3,4 tril strike.. I'm guessing it was about 6,8T or perhaps a hundred or two billion power less.

~Jack

[malbrega]

Nitro 12,201,776,821 Naquadah stolen 1 52 256 5,747 billion 6,325 billion details
Nitro Attack defended 1 61 217 5,871 billion 5,444 billion details
Nitro Attack defended 1 74 182 5,936 billion 4,611 billion details
Nitro Attack defended 1 83 162 5,467 billion 3,798 billion details
Nitro Attack defended 1 106 128 5,948 billion 3,235 billion details

These 5 attacks show how quickly your power went up which shouldn't because absolute difference between MSs didn't change so fast.

Yes both MSs were 5x as powerful when attacking, but you've got to look at how the absolute difference changes, not relative powers, as the game takes absolute difference when calculating how much is left for ground strike.

Lets say your MS was double than mine, which is not the case as it was less than this. So let's take an example as if my MS was 3b and your was 6b. That's 3b difference. Now when you multiply that by 5, it's suddenly 15b and 30b. That's 15b difference. So while the relative difference stays it's the absolute difference that's 5x bigger. While attacking someone that means that for each 100b actual power lost on MS, in command center, it's 500b lost when attacking. That means your MS added 5x as much on ground attack as it should. Which is why you could mass as if the MSs weren't nerfed. Thus you abused the bug.

The bug is also not about what is shown in command center, but the bug is in attacking - MSs are 5x as powerful when attacking as they should be.

So your MS did add strike to ground troops which is a feature, however your MS added 5x as much strike as it should actually add, which is a bug which you use(d) to mass people.

Also as I see there's been some confusion - Nitro abusing the bug yesterday was also done on me, not on anyone else (at least not to my knowledge), however yesterday when I also messaged admin afterwards I didn't really go into all details and didn't figure out that the MS actually, not only appeared 5x as powerful in attack log, but actually also DID 5x as much damage, which is most notably shown when MS adds to ground strike. If I had noticed that, I would have made this topic already. Sadly I only thought the bug was of a cosmetic nature and that it appeared as if the MS was 5x as strong, which is what I told admin.

I also received report of someone else, who wants to stay anonymous, that Nitro had done the same to him - abusing the MS bug. So he is knowingly abusing the bug to gain an upper hand in battles.

~Jack

No I just copied your part of and edited your one of your earlier posts !!!

[Neimenljivi]

My bad, I forgot I posted some of the attacks.

Those were the attacks when your MS started adding strike to def so they weren't among the first ones and my def was still more than 5,9 tril

~Jack

[GhostyGoo]

Holistically speaking this is quite an unfortunate turn of events and for more than one reason.

I'm afraid i have to say that Malgebra's past weighs heavily against him. It has to be considered that, despite overwhelming proof, Malgebra has constantly claimed his innocence and cited discrimiation as Jack's reasons for his repeated bannings. Although i am uncomfortable with justifying bans on past trespasses i feel that, in this case, it is pertinent to consider Malgebra's past behaviour.

It is also important to note that Jack was left on his own to make this decision and that (further to this point) i am convinced he believes it was the right decision to make. I refuse to believe for various reasons that Jack has a vendetta against Malgebra and that GameCop powers are being abused.

I am very grateful for Gregor and Juliette's contribution and, to be honest, my opinion is more in line with those of Juliette and Gregor. However, most people do some pretty precise calculations before setting out to mass 3 people and, if these calculations were done accurately a HUGE anomoly would have been, in my opinion, glaringly obvious to Malgebra.

All that being said a defecit has been created and i have a staunch belief that the best has been done given the situation.

On the evidence provided i'm expected to believe that, during 3 seperate massing occasions, Malgebra was unaware that he was exploiting a bug that left him able to very cheaply and swiftly act upon the accounts of others. I find it very hard to believe and i don't think that Malgebra deserves the benefit of the doubt (it is a very small doubt and his past is very murky and, perhaps more importantly, unrepented).

At the very least the ban will allow Jack to restore himself to a position close to how he was before the bug was (perhaps unintentionally) used to affect his (and others) account. Importantly, Malgebra, it will further assert that the GameCop role is a serious role; something you seemingly refuse to accept. Even in the real world, when someone has commited a crime in the past, reformation is dependent on two very imnportant factors - frequency of further trespasses and admission of guilt. It has only been a week or two since we found you guilty of feeding and now, perhaps unfortunately, you have used a bug to a large advantage. You seem, on all counts, unwilling to admit even a shred of guilt.

The right to reply is Malgebra's, of course, and that's why this thread remains open.

-Goo™

[malbrega]

well unfortunatly what can I say, im guilty of using my mothership lol... what a joke!

if I had used more strike , ship would have been even bigger, and even more powerful.

well im going to hit jack again once I build some more turns

any suggestions how I dont get banned this time

If im banned once more by jack, I will show you real cheating!

[malbrega]

oh p.s I didnt mass 3 people, only jack

also there was no proof and I was not proven guilty of being fed intentionally a couple of weeks ago with no attacks logged towards me, but jack got his calculator out and fiddled some numbers after being sabbed... so I changed stratagy from sabbing to attacking head on.. so not to confuse any numbers this last time and bam banned again...

I also put most of my men to entertainers to make it more difficult for jack to make another ficticous story up, but you go ahead and believe what you like, so far Ive seen no proof at all towards me apart from when blain was targeting me.

the first ban was out of my control being attacked by blain, hence made myself his officer and had no trouble from him at all.

so all in all I believe im entitled to plead my innocence as I am just that.

[xXxsephirothxXx]

Kind of been following this... What a joke? Poor malbrega... Haha
If admin had originally set size, its not a bug? its a balancing issue that admin did not address appropriately and correctly.

[Forum]

ok - my bad for not providing clarification.
The 'game cop' is a feeding force. Its not meant to determine if bug exploits, foul language, MS names, scripts, macros, or just looking too good, are bannable, and then to ban if so.
The gamecop is a feeding cop. For now. The rest can be brought to me personally.

On the issue of the MS bug exploit --well -- that was my bad too. I updated a display but forgot (well something like forgot, more like missed) the actual attack update -- on MS strengths/defs. I would not ban a player for using a MS that had conflicting data.

As such Nitro loses one ban. Clarification hopefully provided. And Nitro gets an apology from myself for the overall situation.

As a further thought, maybe the gamecop that gets attacked by a potential feeder, should not be the one to ban. If there is an 'unrelated, non-involved' gamecop, in a situation like this, they are the better one to take official action. Otherwise its too personal.

Thank you
Jason.