November 2013 Updates.

For discussion on balance, bugs, likes, dislikes of recently released features.
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~Tziki~
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November 2013 Updates.

Post here your comments.



Mine - remove the AT's update. for a start the description isnt very clear on what it is exactly. But regardless everyone should have a flat AT generation in the interest of fairness. there was an AT scale in the past and it just messed the game up and screwed with activity.

REMOVE THANKS BAI
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

I agree with the wording not being clear, Juliette explained it in my thread in other section.

I think if you are going to give a turns bonus for having rank 1-50 don't give 8 turns to 1st rank, as its only gonna benefit the people that could build large stats, and thus they could then farm more. Rich get rich as they say.

maybe be better if it was gain 1-2 turns extra for being in top 50, would still encourage people to actually build some stats, whilst not giving out a one sided bonus.
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Sol
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

~Tziki~ wrote:Post here your comments.



Mine - remove the AT's update. for a start the description isnt very clear on what it is exactly. But regardless everyone should have a flat AT generation in the interest of fairness. there was an AT scale in the past and it just messed the game up and screwed with activity.

REMOVE THANKS BAI
Made it clearer.
And there already isn't a flat AT generation :roll:, there exist AT demis since ages ago.
The scale was effectively an inverse, at least people will fight for the top, and not the bottom.
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~Tziki~
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

And the rich get richer, thats my point.

You should compete to stay on top, not have being on top make it easier to stay there.

you can remove AT demi's so thats no argument for there being a change to the Flat AT Generation everyone had. I had - AT per turn Demi's and if i wanted to regenerate turns i just turned them off.
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

~Tziki~ wrote:And the rich get richer, thats my point.
Hardly, they get a few more turns to farm with, there isn't an endless supply of dmu, and they are hardly growing at a rate faster than anyone smaller than them.
~Tziki~ wrote: You should compete to stay on top, not have being on top make it easier to stay there.
I'm giving a bonus to people who play the game, who make it to the top, not those that sit behind. It's hardly unreachable to get a bonus from this.
~Tziki~ wrote: you can remove AT demi's so thats no argument for there being a change to the Flat AT Generation everyone had. I had - AT per turn Demi's and if i wanted to regenerate turns i just turned them off.
Yeah, so? That still changes the base AT generation rate which you're keen on keeping the same for everyone. Other people can't turn off your demis.
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

Sol wrote:
~Tziki~ wrote:And the rich get richer, thats my point.
Hardly, they get a few more turns to farm with, there isn't an endless supply of dmu, and they are hardly growing at a rate faster than anyone smaller than them.
and a few more turns to farm with, is a bit more DMU to use, to keep a bit more ahead, and keep getting those little extra turns, which stops people getting to those ranks, which gives them a permanent advantage.


Cant help but feel im talking to a brick wall and going in circles at times, every other change is in favor of those already established. Keeping the new players down, and the old players on the up.
Sol wrote:e top, not those that sit behind. It's hardly unreachable to get a bonus from this.
~Tziki~ wrote: you can remove AT demi's so thats no argument for there being a change to the Flat AT Generation everyone had. I had - AT per turn Demi's and if i wanted to regenerate turns i just turned them off.
Yeah, so? That still changes the base AT generation rate which you're keen on keeping the same for everyone. Other people can't turn off your demis.

Other people couldnt care less if im generating LESS turns than them, hell they'd probably be happy with that. So your reply ot that makes no sense. Im arguing in favor of keeping it fair for everyone through a flat rate, you can unequip demi's to get back to the falt AT regeneration rate so that has no influence on the flat rate of AT's generated. AT's has been fine as is, why has there been a need to change it?

if updates continue to favor those already established, and you keep refusing to understand how that effects those that arent, then you will find less people bothering with the server. No on wants to feel like they cant catch up, and updates like this stack the odds against them even more.
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Sol
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

~Tziki~ wrote:
Sol wrote:
~Tziki~ wrote:And the rich get richer, thats my point.
Hardly, they get a few more turns to farm with, there isn't an endless supply of dmu, and they are hardly growing at a rate faster than anyone smaller than them.
and a few more turns to farm with, is a bit more DMU to use, to keep a bit more ahead, and keep getting those little extra turns, which stops people getting to those ranks, which gives them a permanent advantage.
Sure, a bit more dmu, but to upgrade a 1 trill LF powerup? Not gonna help as much.
We're talking about 5 people getting 4-5 turns extra, not half a server.
~Tziki~ wrote:
Sol wrote:e top, not those that sit behind. It's hardly unreachable to get a bonus from this.
~Tziki~ wrote: you can remove AT demi's so thats no argument for there being a change to the Flat AT Generation everyone had. I had - AT per turn Demi's and if i wanted to regenerate turns i just turned them off.
Yeah, so? That still changes the base AT generation rate which you're keen on keeping the same for everyone. Other people can't turn off your demis.

Other people couldnt care less if im generating LESS turns than them, hell they'd probably be happy with that. So your reply ot that makes no sense. Im arguing in favor of keeping it fair for everyone through a flat rate, you can unequip demi's to get back to the falt AT regeneration rate so that has no influence on the flat rate of AT's generated. AT's has been fine as is, why has there been a need to change it?

if updates continue to favor those already established, and you keep refusing to understand how that effects those that arent, then you will find less people bothering with the server. No on wants to feel like they cant catch up, and updates like this stack the odds against them even more.
No, I'm talking about MORE turns, there aren't just negative turn demis in existence.
I do understand your points, but I feel they are null in comparison. Giving a bit more to those that fight for the top will hardly mean they will power ahead of everyone else (I would almost stake a few quint dmu that they aren't going to stay permanently at the top), that being said, if the big guys keep farming then by logical deduction no one will ever catch up anyway, even so if you believe you should be able to catch up to someone that has been playing longer than you have then I'm laughing. Compete? Sure, but that's easy enough.
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hokiehomeboy
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

as much as I hate to agree with Tziki but the rich get richer

but hey for now thanks for the extra ATs per turn :) it cost me exactly jack **Filtered** worth of DMU and only a fistful of planets beyond what I already had trained
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

You can always catch up, because it costs more to widen the gap than it does to shorten it.

Rant About Unfair Advantages:
[spoiler]It might cost 2quint to get to a certain level, but it may well cost 2 quint to increase that level by 25%, meaning in the time you get another 2q you progress is considerably less than that of someone who farmed the same and caught you up.

So yes you can catch up to people that have been playing a long time, but also dont forget those that played a long time have had the fortunate advantage of playing on a server that was once dead, and as such could farm 500t-1q DMU per hit almost as often as they had turns to do it, as opposed to now where farming is more competative and for cosniderable less amounts. So time is not on your side, nor AT's, nor the avilable naq. So in that sense catching up or even reaching the same level in time is considerably harder.

rewarding those who had that advantage of a better economy, by giving them more AT's to to farm with and farm more DMU than someone lower, widens the gap and gives them another unfair advantage due to an unfair advantage already used. Hence.. The rich get richer.

Hokie is a prime example of that, 1700 personals or something similar, played a long time, before tournaments were introduced he had similar levels then (recall talking to him on msn about it)
Tournaments come out activity goes up, farming goes up, DMU goes down, you release more AT's.. Hokie laughs at how easy he can take the AT's because he already built an acc bigger than most back when farming was as easy as just logging in...[/spoiler]


I understand your desire to reward building stats and taking rank, But it should be done in a way that doesnt offer an advantage to one person over another based on what is basically a measure of how long you have played THAT account for.

Rant About Effect On New/Small Players:
[spoiler]Its hard enough getting new players to even bother with ascended, explaining the importance of not being descended in relation to main only goes so far, but when a new player or even old player returns and you explain this to them and that they must farm and improve their account for that purpose alone never mind physicals for the AT's to farm with... They willt ake one look at it and think... "No forget that" ill just sleep for 2 weeks if i get descended.

Which is great in the long run, because it then means less new players / players slowing in activity, which means Myself or some other like minded player benefits from the economy being different again and farming being easier... which then leads to us building bigger and bigger, so when activity picks up AGAIN.. the gap is wider AGAIN... and the circle repeats.


At some point, there has to be an update that will favor the newer/smaller players or there wont be any fresh faces. Only those that know ascended well enough to just deal with the deficit, or have already established themselves.[/spoiler]



Possible solution/counter proposal:
[spoiler]Why not implement some form of GnR reward system, that doesnt give any unfair advantage to account growth or ability. Titles Based on your GnR, revovling around a set Percent. say those with the most GnR, top 5% (GLORY and REPUTATION) call it Godly Gladiator of The Universe or something relevant to ascended.

People can then chase a title through ranks instead of gaining a game changing advantage. Go down the Aesthetic route instead.[/spoiler]



just thinking of the newbs is all, cz im nice like that 8)
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Sol
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

~Tziki~ wrote:You can always catch up, because it costs more to widen the gap than it does to shorten it.
Still won't matter, assuming both players farm as best they can, and their intake is approximately the same, then A will always be greater than B, if A was already ahead of B, sure B might get 2 levels below A, but A will always be closer to the next level or above the level of B.
What I'm saying is you can compete, that's easy in ascended, but not catch up. Where catching up infers the same level or greater.


Rant About Unfair Advantages:
...but also dont forget those that played a long time have had the fortunate advantage of playing on a server that was once dead, and as such could farm 500t-1q DMU per hit almost as often as they had turns to do it, as opposed to now where farming is more competative and for cosniderable less amounts. So time is not on your side, nor AT's, nor the avilable naq. So in that sense catching up or even reaching the same level in time is considerably harder.
Yeah sure, but they also didn't have decent APP->LF rates, higher turn rates, various other ways to get resources and turn refills among other things.

Hokie is a prime example of that, 1700 personals or something similar, played a long time, before tournaments were introduced he had similar levels then (recall talking to him on msn about it)
Tournaments come out activity goes up, farming goes up, DMU goes down, you release more AT's.. Hokie laughs at how easy he can take the AT's because he already built an acc bigger than most back when farming was as easy as just logging in...
Hokie is rank 71, and anyone can mass him if they want to. I believe you feel that these turns are an exclusive product to old accounts that are quite big, they are not.



I understand your desire to reward building stats and taking rank, But it should be done in a way that doesnt offer an advantage to one person over another based on what is basically a measure of how long you have played THAT account for.
ppft please, the biggest attack level from all the accounts that have only existed for 3 weeks to date is 1100 alone, that is just at this instance, I would hazard a guess and say someone has done faster than that, even the best def level in the past 3 weeks of noobs is 1k. People aren't falling behind. Point is new accounts are NOT far from reach of high ranks if they dont want to be, the only limiting product is planets, but if they dont want someone up at rank 1 they can still compete. Better yet this is not main, when someone is down they STAY down for a bit.

Possible solution/counter proposal:
[spoiler]Why not implement some form of GnR reward system, that doesnt give any unfair advantage to account growth or ability. Titles Based on your GnR, revovling around a set Percent. say those with the most GnR, top 5% (GLORY and REPUTATION) call it Godly Gladiator of The Universe or something relevant to ascended.

People can then chase a title through ranks instead of gaining a game changing advantage. Go down the Aesthetic route instead.[/spoiler]

Consider AP to LF, 400 bill to a newer ascender is pure gold. Not much for someone as big, but still something, they can still pick up arms quite fast with that.
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

Guess what you need 5 bil planets and you are in top 50 now since influe is removed from system in which case 2 turns per tc = 94 per day... So that means 6 attacks with 15 turns or 7 with 13 :) ...

7x200 bil = 1.4 Q ....

You can decide having income with 5 bil planets
or farm 1.4 Q ...

I don't see the point of removing the turns ... The guys who goes for top 10 .... they have to build HUGE stats to get there that means a lot of messable units ... which he will loss if somethink goes bad ...

YOu just need to decide which game you wanna play :-D
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

IFLuX wrote:Guess what you need 5 bil planets and you are in top 50 now since influe is removed from system in which case 2 turns per tc = 94 per day... So that means 6 attacks with 15 turns or 7 with 13 :) ...

7x200 bil = 1.4 Q ....

You can decide having income with 5 bil planets
or farm 1.4 Q ...

I don't see the point of removing the turns ... The guys who goes for top 10 .... they have to build HUGE stats to get there that means a lot of messable units ... which he will loss if somethink goes bad ...

YOu just need to decide which game you wanna play :-D

I like to just toe the line myself. Extra ATs on top of demi god, more things to mass, more things for me to mass in return. I love the idea, I just agree with Tziki on this one.
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

Any chance this can be re-looked at.

I say it because if this was to help newer players into the game an make them build. Would be great but speaking with a few ppl , when ever they have tried to get into the top 100 , because they also play arena, they have been sent PM's saying about stay out of top 100 this is for TAF only , or don't enter arena unless your want to be sat on outside of arena.


These are ppl that are not even in the sever war, its just becoming a feeding ground imo for one side. Just one player that had PM's kind of like this was Lore.

If I just take say Talloak for instant, picked him as he normal sat rank 1.
He has Turn demi, that gives 4 per turn, then rank 1 that gives 5 per turn, you already looking at making almost double ppl outside the top 100 each turn.

If your look at say OPTIMUS MAXIMUS out of top 100 an messure it agasint Talloak looks like

OPTIMUS MAXIMUS he gets 15,8k turns a month
Talloak he gets 28,8k a month

Then if add on the 8k turns from the arena Talloak got say last month, this does not help ppl trying to get into the game, but does what ~Tziki~ said at the start just promotes the stronger to get stronger.

While numbers all on there side just pick ppl off one by one. As I said its happening from the pm's ppl are getting that's not even war.

IMO there is no need for extra turns for being ranked.
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teesdale wrote:im going to start calling you Mathod man... because i swear to god your as dense as Mathlord is when it comes to arguing.

Ignore valid points from everyone else and believe your own verbal diarrhea, the pair of you.
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

reborn wrote:Any chance this can be re-looked at.

I say it because if this was to help newer players into the game an make them build. Would be great but speaking with a few ppl , when ever they have tried to get into the top 100 , because they also play arena, they have been sent PM's saying about stay out of top 100 this is for TAF only , or don't enter arena unless your want to be sat on outside of arena.


These are ppl that are not even in the sever war, its just becoming a feeding ground imo for one side. Just one player that had PM's kind of like this was Lore.

If I just take say Talloak for instant, picked him as he normal sat rank 1.
He has Turn demi, that gives 4 per turn, then rank 1 that gives 5 per turn, you already looking at making almost double ppl outside the top 100 each turn.

If your look at say OPTIMUS MAXIMUS out of top 100 an messure it agasint Talloak looks like

OPTIMUS MAXIMUS he gets 15,8k turns a month
Talloak he gets 28,8k a month

Then if add on the 8k turns from the arena Talloak got say last month, this does not help ppl trying to get into the game, but does what ~Tziki~ said at the start just promotes the stronger to get stronger.

While numbers all on there side just pick ppl off one by one. As I said its happening from the pm's ppl are getting that's not even war.

IMO there is no need for extra turns for being ranked.
Well if any1 in taf are sending them pms thats something HC will need to look at cos we are a friendly alliance.

If it is because you can never stay high ranked enough then unfortunatly its not our problem.

On the other side, i kinda agree with what ure saying reborn just no need to bring taf into it.
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Re: November 2013 Updates.

Read what I put wilco, I know of a few, an I even said one player name there that was sent them

Lore an was Joe sending them to lore ......
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teesdale wrote:im going to start calling you Mathod man... because i swear to god your as dense as Mathlord is when it comes to arguing.

Ignore valid points from everyone else and believe your own verbal diarrhea, the pair of you.
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