Calculations

When BIG changes come, some advance notice MAY be given, depending on the type of enhancement.
this is where to discuss these that are announced, and where we announce them.
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Select your preferred option

No changes
22
31%
AB change (case 1)
6
8%
AB + planet change (cases 1,2) - thoughts on %:
10
14%
AB + planet + MS change (cases 1,2,3) - thoughts on %:
34
47%
 
Total votes: 72
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Re: Calculations

A week ago, planet massing was basically reverted to how it was in 2008 with very little fanfare. Every year, there's an update or modification to massing rates, changes to bloodwar, constant debating of changes to double strike and glory phase. Changing sabotage against lower levels. The game has always been reactionary against people that break the system and we will keep going round and round trying to treat the symptoms of this core problem of untouchable planets.
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13:38 General Zeus Sabotage Repelled 377,977,330 details

The forces of simpson_eh fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 305,393,963,879,000 damage on Mathlord's forces!
They managed to eradicate 4,635,986 of Mathlord's troops.
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They managed to eradicate 0 of Mathlord's troops.
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Re: Calculations

Mathlord wrote:A week ago, planet massing was basically reverted to how it was in 2008 with very little fanfare. Every year, there's an update or modification to massing rates, changes to bloodwar, constant debating of changes to double strike and glory phase. Changing sabotage against lower levels. The game has always been reactionary against people that break the system and we will keep going round and round trying to treat the symptoms of this core problem of untouchable planets.
In other words, once someone has fully adapted their gameplay to be as efficient and effective as possible, the game must change? No.
Field Marshall wrote:I don't believe in updates for the minority, I believe in updates for the majority. This update is for HE and a few others who have adapted their accounts.
This.


On the otherhand, defenses being massed with so little effort does bring up the fact it needs tweaking. Case 1 addresses this - a relatively easy update, with big effect. I am sure this would increase the ratios for the attacker majorly, which seems to be the most sought after.

It would be unfair to nerf something which takes such a big investment to make feasible, moving the goal posts...
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Re: Calculations

Welcome to stargatewars? The history of this game is nothing but case after case of people's big investments getting nerfed to some extent. It has happened to all of us.
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13:38 General Zeus Sabotage Repelled 377,977,330 details

The forces of simpson_eh fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 305,393,963,879,000 damage on Mathlord's forces!
They managed to eradicate 4,635,986 of Mathlord's troops.
---
The forces of simpson_eh fought back with all they could, and managed to inflict 12 damage on Mathlord's forces!
They managed to eradicate 0 of Mathlord's troops.
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Re: Calculations

Re: Planets
you currently need 35% of the fleet to engage
it used to be 10-15%,
When it was 10-15% i toke an un-takeable planet it had a total defense of 15 tril. 7 normal and 2.5 on 3 plats.
The amount of naq lost when the defense was destroyed was huge. It costed me 3 quad to upgrade my fleets and another 400 tril in repairs, however the cost of the planets defense were upwards to 10 quad... ( and i still have the Raw weapon slots for my fleets i'm only out the 400 tril in repairs)
Remember anything you do has other effect, 1 of them being you do one thing about merlins and your going to have a lot more planet sniper accounts that are around just to remove your defenses and damage your planets nothing else.

Merlins are a good source of income for the game. Keeps the lights on. "
By change howmuch it costs to go between planet types so that everyone can do it, allows everyone chances to go play with the planets and change their account setup's. I would like 3-6 months of peaceful relationships as i don't want to be massing all the time, and i do like having people have time to rebuild properly inbetween massings.

However if you truely want to screw me over, the change is really simple.

Raise the Plague cap to 3billion at a fix rate of inflation of 10,000 uu per turn. I.E in one year's time the cap would be at 3.175bil
Change the RAID AND TRADE CAP to be 2billion
Reduce the income from miners by 50% ( so we don't have run away inflation), however setup it so that lifers are at 100%
Convert All UU server wide to Lifers, with a One time convert back button. This will keep the Farming of naq levels the same, but will Kill the Raiding market for 2-3 months while the server regenerates.

Benefit to this
1. People will be able to have 300-500mil supers in their defenses and planets just don't work at those levels
2. People will be able to GROW again, and the desire for war will lessen for a time.
3. Yes my planets will still be truly cruel to any that fail with in my peak efficient so i'm not going to be too unhappy. (My planets aren't design for taking out the Big defenses, they are design to keep the defenses down)

So if you were to do the 3 sets of changes you would radically change the game, but not really change the principles.

Looking at Double strike for 1 second (Just changing it so that it didn't AB) Basically double strike gives you 100% chance of AB. That might fix those ratio problems.
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Re: Calculations

I fail too see how this would benefit anything, all i can see is people with high cover sitting with 1b spies making them unspyable, un acable and someone with $ to spend could just stick 1.5b uu into defence and become unmassable. If someone who farms naq had to stick 2b supers into attack and 2b weps = over 1q naq lol then that's several weeks of farming wasted.

Double strike would come in usefull but weps+uu cost.. plus this would never happen anyway. Admin wouldn't implement it.
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Re: Calculations

High Empty wrote:Re: Planets
you currently need 35% of the fleet to engage
it used to be 10-15%,
When it was 10-15% i toke an un-takeable planet it had a total defense of 15 tril. 7 normal and 2.5 on 3 plats.
The amount of naq lost when the defense was destroyed was huge. It costed me 3 quad to upgrade my fleets and another 400 tril in repairs, however the cost of the planets defense were upwards to 10 quad... ( and i still have the Raw weapon slots for my fleets i'm only out the 400 tril in repairs)
Remember anything you do has other effect, 1 of them being you do one thing about merlins and your going to have a lot more planet sniper accounts that are around just to remove your defenses and damage your planets nothing else.

Merlins are a good source of income for the game. Keeps the lights on. "
By change howmuch it costs to go between planet types so that everyone can do it, allows everyone chances to go play with the planets and change their account setup's. I would like 3-6 months of peaceful relationships as i don't want to be massing all the time, and i do like having people have time to rebuild properly inbetween massings.

However if you truely want to screw me over, the change is really simple.

Raise the Plague cap to 3billion at a fix rate of inflation of 10,000 uu per turn. I.E in one year's time the cap would be at 3.175bil
Change the RAID AND TRADE CAP to be 2billion
Reduce the income from miners by 50% ( so we don't have run away inflation), however setup it so that lifers are at 100%
Convert All UU server wide to Lifers, with a One time convert back button. This will keep the Farming of naq levels the same, but will Kill the Raiding market for 2-3 months while the server regenerates.

Benefit to this
1. People will be able to have 300-500mil supers in their defenses and planets just don't work at those levels
2. People will be able to GROW again, and the desire for war will lessen for a time.
3. Yes my planets will still be truly cruel to any that fail with in my peak efficient so i'm not going to be too unhappy. (My planets aren't design for taking out the Big defenses, they are design to keep the defenses down)

So if you were to do the 3 sets of changes you would radically change the game, but not really change the principles.

Looking at Double strike for 1 second (Just changing it so that it didn't AB) Basically double strike gives you 100% chance of AB. That might fix those ratio problems.
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Re: Calculations

damn i had to read all of that.

how about if your having to mass a defence that has say 600 mill supers trained you can only do it if you have lets say 75% or whatever ratio trained up as well in either defence or attack supers. if they are attack supers then they will die in battle, if they are defence supers it makes wars more interesting as you will be building defences in order to be able to mass.


this then means that either way you will have to put up your loss ratio up considerably to cause the levels of damage that is being done now. planets can still add whatever values they are but it will make them relatively redundant in decreasing your loss ratio.
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Re: Calculations

R8 wrote:damn i had to read all of that.

how about if your having to mass a defence that has say 600 mill supers trained you can only do it if you have lets say 75% or whatever ratio trained up as well in either defence or attack supers. if they are attack supers then they will die in battle, if they are defence supers it makes wars more interesting as you will be building defences in order to be able to mass.


this then means that either way you will have to put up your loss ratio up considerably to cause the levels of damage that is being done now. planets can still add whatever values they are but it will make them relatively redundant in decreasing your loss ratio.
There isn't enough uu to accomodate this change, lets say in war people can get to 300-400m max and someone with $$ buys to 3b lol.
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Re: Calculations

~Dä Vinci~ wrote:I fail too see how this would benefit anything, all i can see is people with high cover sitting with 1b spies making them unspyable, un acable and someone with $ to spend could just stick 1.5b uu into defence and become unmassable. If someone who farms naq had to stick 2b supers into attack and 2b weps = over 1q naq lol then that's several weeks of farming wasted.

Double strike would come in usefull but weps+uu cost.. plus this would never happen anyway. Admin wouldn't implement it.

Da Vinci

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Think Yes you could put 1.5 million supers into defense, and another 500-1000mil into spies,... Hmm did you see how Rodwolf was built last time? 700mil supers and 300mil spies (Seem that's already done) and guess what i wasn't a guy with Planets and a Large Mothership that took it down, cause There isn't much benefit at those numbers for the planets (15 tril on a 300 tril strike is piss all) And your always ACable and always MASSABLE.

Re: R8
There has been some talk about having a Min defense per strike?
1000bil strike= Normal
then if you want a 5 tril additonal strike you have 2 options
1.) Build a 11 tril total strike (without a defense) and it's reduced back to 6 tril with the following
For every 1 tril of strike you need 100bil of defense, otherwise your strike is effectively only 50% ( your attackers are worried about their wifes and daughters being home alone)
This would allow for the large strikes still, but will prove interesting in onliners as the countermass would be be able to drop a person strike power, and could prove interesting!
But again... you don't have to have a defense, you just have a reduction for not having a defense.


Re: Ratios cost btw...
(as what pointed out 38 quad of naq but into planets, reason so that my ratios are better so that my repair costs are LESS! i still have to mass ONE heck of alot of people to break even.)

As for UU being around, yah there isn't enough units, funny how that works! And that's the reason i'm suggesting something so HIGH, as it will mean people will go back to spending on UP (Raw)
as for buying the units off the market, sure someone could do it, but at the current limits you could get 2bil off black market, and 0.2 to 0.4 bil off a (ingame black market).

on the other hand is there anything that will make you happy?
I know
remove merlins
delete planets
remove Motherships
Remove Quick attack, Increase Nox delay to 30 seconds
Increase PPT to 72 hours
... and yes i'm being silly at this point.
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Re: Calculations

im thinking something that could actually be implemented.. admin already said the army size cap will not be changed, so it's pretty pointless even bringing it up. As for making me happy, yes i think a lot of things have ruined massing to the point of not bothering to mass.


1) remove merlins - i don't mind so much about the merlins
2) delete planets - no
3) remove Motherships - no, i never really thought motherships were the problem, althought they should only account to the raw strike.
4) Remove Quick attack - no
5) Increase Nox delay to 30 seconds - YES!
6) Increase PPT to 72 hours - 3 x 12 hour ppt in my opinion
7) and yes i'm being silly at this point - yes you are <3

im always welcome for opinions and im only giving mine back, If it's usefull then good if not then so be it. I don't think your solutions tackle the problem but just bring in more problems, i also think merlins and changing planets (with merlins) wont change anything aswell.
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Re: Calculations

3) remove Motherships - no, i never really thought motherships were the problem, althought they should only account to the raw strike.

hmm
Ok by Raw strike what do you mean?
Cause at this moment If i AB i can count the MS strike into that
but my MS strike doesn't AB.
if by raw you mean before the 1.47% plus Techs Plus other things, no
and if you mean raw as before planets i'd say NO as well.

5) Increase Nox delay to 30 seconds - YES!
Lol
sure if War is declared when Lifers are used, or on a Single attack! not the 300 Turn limit.
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Re: Calculations

High Empty wrote:3) remove Motherships - no, i never really thought motherships were the problem, althought they should only account to the raw strike.

hmm
Ok by Raw strike what do you mean?
Cause at this moment If i AB i can count the MS strike into that
but my MS strike doesn't AB.
if by raw you mean before the 1.47% plus Techs Plus other things, no
and if you mean raw as before planets i'd say NO as well.

5) Increase Nox delay to 30 seconds - YES!
Lol
sure if War is declared when Lifers are used, or on a Single attack! not the 300 Turn limit.
Mothership - yes before planets as it's just stacking up too high, 10m weps 4.3t (ish) so you can only add 4.3t from ms strike.

nox delay - this was a joke, i hate nox and have always thought it makes massing pointless as people just sit behind it and repair till they phase.
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Re: Calculations

Ok... again a lot of bla bla.
And ideas for life.

We can remember planet nerfing... it was able to build one or two big ones, and have another few crap ones to divide planet add bonus together between more planets. Than update nerfed it, each planet can add only 50% of raw stat.

Now we have bigger planets, bigger incomes, bigger UPs, bigger MSs... and can live with that old update.

But few decided to play else...each player has different tactic.

[spoiler]Back in time, years ago, I bought AC lvl, pumped naq to covert/AC planets and was killing spyes for free throught defence. it wasnt nefed, but another update nerfed strikes...

Than another update protecting "weak fat farms"- the money makers... Naq milk cows.

Than we got this tiny advance to alliance - alliance repirs... PPTs, etc... at beginning it was almost free. later nerfed because ppl were crying about it. So it became more expensive.

Than these houses - waste of time even write about it.

Than double strike, glory phase...

Merlins on BM

Huge looses if defender defend - attackers loosing tons of supers - yeah... sometimes AB just helps a lot.

Oh... and now lets blame snipers - players who build nothing but strike and mass - make fun ingame and play like an **Filtered**

STOP snipers - lets take them all... they cant sell attack weapons.

Long live sttabuilders - sell defence weapons if you want... loose something, but barely as much as snipers...

Oh than came another update - MS stats doubled - oh no... an **Filtered** pumped quads to have big MS strike! we screwed.

Oh damn... i forgo critical lvl and NOX - damn... we cant mass... we cant farm... and raiding... wer screwed


Now... nerf planets more!
Nerf AB!
Nerf houses!
Nerf incomes!
Nerf UP!
Nerf MS!
Nerf AC (because covert already was nerfed)!

The question is... wouldnt be better idea to restart game setup back to 2005 and keep just ascended bonus?
Its easyer... no need to discuss all these updates, ideas...etc.

And please, value of whats build, please move to each players bank, even if its ower his Bank size, put everyone to 4 days PPT to decide how to waste the naq... and ...[/spoiler]

no...

am voting for no change.
None of offered to vote suits what I want.

PS: put my idea to vote ->
1) planets loose 1% of stats each week. If you dont log in for 10 days and dont set vacation, speed up stat decreasing to 3%. After all... keep the prize for update.

2) defence weapons at defence ower 100T loose 1% of power each 24 hours after its built and cant be repaired. player can only buy more weapons and train more def supers.

3) attack using more than 50% of total power used in battle is taking 300% weapon dmg by massing, supers looses cost double.


Well... and close BM - open it for christmas only. Keep just SS and USS. And you will fix most of troubles been fixed with these proposals.
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Re: Calculations

I can understand why especially attack and def duals might be a problem, but how the hell do income and UP planets represent a problem? All they do is enable a regular player who can't spend 10h a day raiding/farming still partly keep up with the majority of players. But that means the regular player spends months or years to build up their planets to that point, as well as months and years to build up the defences for planets.

Point is - $penders will always have a significant advantage over others, because the game allows buying resources for $. Whatever you do, they're going to adapt. The only difference is that they will adapt within a month's salary, while non $ players will need a year or more to catch up to where they were before the change compared to the $ players. So all you'll do is create a situation where the $ players might need a month to regain their supremacy, but once they do, they'll have a trouble-free 12 months before regular players catch up to pose the same threat they posed before the change. If anything, the $ players will have a bigger advantage for a year. Or remind me what happened during the sudden shift to importance of sabbing?
If you really want to limit the advantage of $ players, like c2 mentioned, close the black market for the majority of the year. That will make resources harder to come by and thus $ players won't have infinite resources at their disposal.

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Re: Calculations

Neimenljivi wrote:I can understand why especially attack and def duals might be a problem, but how the hell do income and UP planets represent a problem? All they do is enable a regular player who can't spend 10h a day raiding/farming still partly keep up with the majority of players. But that means the regular player spends months or years to build up their planets to that point, as well as months and years to build up the defences for planets.

Point is - $penders will always have a significant advantage over others, because the game allows buying resources for $. Whatever you do, they're going to adapt. The only difference is that they will adapt within a month's salary, while non $ players will need a year or more to catch up to where they were before the change compared to the $ players. So all you'll do is create a situation where the $ players might need a month to regain their supremacy, but once they do, they'll have a trouble-free 12 months before regular players catch up to pose the same threat they posed before the change. If anything, the $ players will have a bigger advantage for a year. Or remind me what happened during the sudden shift to importance of sabbing?
If you really want to limit the advantage of $ players, like c2 mentioned, close the black market for the majority of the year. That will make resources harder to come by and thus $ players won't have infinite resources at their disposal.

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Your point is mute, even if I agree that the Income/Up duals help, as you do nothing but sell the naq and UU you generate. You contribute to the problem. ](*,)
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