A Dance With Dragons

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Zeratul
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Deni, those "few more years" is our expression, not a quote of anything GRRM has said.

As usual, the book left one with multiple questions and wanting more.
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deni
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Zeratul wrote:Deni, those "few more years" is our expression, not a quote of anything GRRM has said.

As usual, the book left one with multiple questions and wanting more.



It will be at least few years until "The Winds of Winter" come out. GMMR has said himself that he won't start actively writing on it til early 2012. Although the few chapters that did not make it into "A Dance with Dragons" will give him a kick start :-D


The "GMMR has to be kidding me" referred to the demise (or not) of a certain character and the cliffhanger it constitues.

I hate cliffhangers :smt093



Oh well, back to Malazan Book of the Fallen.
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Zeratul
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

oh, that one...

Yes, it was a bit of a cliffhanger...
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deni
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Zeratul wrote:oh, that one...

Yes, it was a bit of a cliffhanger...





GMMR is not really shy when it comes to killing off his main protagonists, but c'mon? Killing him?

It is just not right
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

It was necessary to allow progression of the storyline for the next books. ;)
:P
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deni
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

That's only true if he is the one who was promised :p

Else his dead would be ... pointless and disappointing
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Zeratul
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Who knows, maybe the priestess will bring him back?

There are a couple of things that could indicate that she's wrong in saying Stannis is Azor Ahai, and some of those things do point towards Jon. He also fits the requirement of actually being a prince, being descended from the kings in the north of old, and where else would it be natural for one such's ancestors to stay if not out there, standing watch over the edges of the realms of men?

(yes, there are many just as convincing arguments for making others like Daenarys and Victarion the one.)
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deni
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

That's what I thought. After all, when Mel asked for a visision of AA all she saw in the fires was Snow. That it is "Snow" (capitalized S) and not "snow" was emphasized in her one and only PoV chapter so far. That speaks for it to be important and is a clue about Jon's future role as AA.

What bugs me is, that it was rather obvious and we all know that GRRM does not do "obvious". I'd hate it if GRRM killed Jon now, without revealing his parentage as it will be essential imo - after all the dragon has 3 heads according to the prophecies and we are sure about one of those heads only - Daeny. Jon & Tyrion were the best candidates for the other 2 heads with Jon being almost a sure thing :P

With Aemon (Targ or Blackfyre or fake?) there is another good candidate for a "head of the dragon".

The hints about a possible relation between Aerys and Joanna Lannister combined with Tyrion's "so blond that it is almost white hair" and Tywins "You are not my son" statements, make Tyrion a more likely candidate.
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Zeratul
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

It could be that the third head is Victarion Greyjoy.

Daenarys is immune to fire (aside from her hair, that is), Victarion has a fiery arm, and Jon has both blood of ancient kings & a blade of dragonsteel. The fact that Jon has also appeared in multiple visions of Azor ahai, supports him.

Daenarys nephew gives the feeling of lacking something to be a good candidate.

Our favorite character is actually Arya. We got a feeling she'll have a lot to do in the future books...
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deni
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

I kinda assumed that the 3 heads of the dragon will have Targ blood, that kinda excludes Victarion.

Daeny is a Targ.

Jon's parantage is unknown, but there are indications he could be the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, making him a Targ as well.

Tyrion's mother was Aerys' loved one (Barristan's tale about who Daeny's parents really loved). This also explains the strong dislike Tywin Lanninster has for the Targs and Tyrion.

Aegon is a supposed Targ aswell. He has the Targs looks but there is something fishy about him. I suspect he is not a Targ but a Blackfyre - that would explain Magister Illirio and Varys' support for him - seeing that Illirio's late wife (Senna?) was a Blackfyre herself. Indications speak that Aegon is the "mummer dragon" from Daeny's visions in the House of the Undying. Although being a "mummer dragon" does not necessarily makes him a fake dragon - after all Varys' travelled with mummers as a child, so the "mummer dragon" could mean just Varys' dragon and be no indication is Aegon is a real Targ or not.


You gotta love all the details and hints. Makes re-reading the series a real pleasure :P
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Zeratul
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Yes, that is an interesting possibility...

Lyanna was a Stark, so there's the blood of the kings in the north, Rhaegar as true father would connect him to the dragon blood, and Eddard's honor could explain the subterfuge. There is no way that Eddard would have given up his younger sister's son to be executed by Robert after seeing how the trueborn princes and princesses were treated. He did after all defend Daenarys' existence. Why do that if not to protect something else?

Bring in the fact that there were only two people that survived the battle of the tower of Joy, where Lyanna was found, dying and protected by no less than three members of the kingsguard. Those two were Eddard Stark & Howland Reed. The latter being one of Eddard's closest friends. Howland's children are Jojen and Meera.
Before Dying, Lyanna extracted some sort of promise from Eddard. No one knows what it was. Why would she both be protected by three kingsguards and dying if not from say, childbirth of a royal?
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deni
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Exactly. Why would the Kingsguard be in the Tower of Joy instead protecting Viserys and Daeny for example? After all, if Lyanna was not giving birth to a child of royal blood, Viserys would be the heir to the Iron Throne.


Further, in Bran's visions through the heart tree, he sees an younger Ned praying to the gods to let them [Robb & Jon] "be as brothers". Can only mean that they are not brothers yet of the same blood (Ned refers to Jon as being "his blood").


I'd really like to see an appearance or maybe even a PoV from Howland Reed with a flashback about what happened in the Tower of Joy. Was hoping to see it in this book but I guess we will have to wait a bit for it.
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Zeratul
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

It is rather obvious that he will be the one to reveal whatever truth the promise hid.

It would be one thing for a single kingsguard to watch over Rhaegar's mistress/love interest... Setting three to watch her indicates something far more.
The one thing that could bring doubt here would be the fact that Targaryens generally have almost silvery white hair, whereas Jon has black hair. But that could also be explained by northern Blood being strong enough to override the Targaryen tendency. If Jon and Daenerys do eventually meet each other and find each other rather attractive, then the doubt can be quelled. Targaryens do after all have that tendency for marriage with each other.
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deni
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Jon has the "Stark"-look and he is often compared to Arya who is said to be much like her aunt Lyanna.

While many Targs have the Targ look (silver blond hair, purple eyes), their seed is not as strong as the Baratheon one. For example little princess Rhanerys, who is Rhaegar's and Elia of Dorne's daughter, has the Dornish Martell look and not the Targ one. She took after her mother just as Jon probably took after his mother aswell :)
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Zeratul
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Re: A Dance With Dragons

Indeed. It would appear that the Targaryen look either does not breed true or breeds very true, no half measures. That would also explain why there's not any that look half-Targaryen out there...

What do you think of the faith of the many-faced god?
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