Christians Central

[Apollo]

Speak for yourself. mate.

[Come_Forth]

Now now we can't recruit members that way

[TheWay]

A lot of these issues come down to a simple issue of one's presuppositions. If you believe as Mojo has stated that God is all knowing all powerful and also completely good then you can understand his actions in a very different way then one who does not presuppose this. I have heard many a person argue about wether one should follow a god who does things they consider wrong, and if this were a valid question I would answer well if we have a choice between many gods I might choose the one that fit me best lol. This however is not the case the question isnt should we follow God but rather is there a God and is he the God of the bible. If there is a God and he is indeed the God of the bible then it isnt a question as to wether you should follow him, it is an imperative that you must indeed follow him. If the God of the Christian bible is true, then so also is the fact that he is our creator and as such our judge and our reason for existance. If the Christian God is real then man has no place to question him but rather must humbly submit to his will and glorify him. I know from wriiting what I just did many of you in your heart may get angry reading it, things like submitting to anyones will is disgutting to many and that is the point. I know there is a God and I know who he is, I do not believe in him because he does anything for me nor because he makes my life easier, I believe because he is God and that is all that matters. Now I must also say we as christians do not follow a unloving God nor one who cant empathize, because he came to earth to die for our sins and was spitt upon and beaten for all mankind. God himself submitted his body to punishement and death for your eternal life, and that is the most loving thing I could ever imagine from a creator.

[Solus]

Sorry to break the flow of discussion, however an issue has arised which II need to ask for support in.

This thread in the temple of spam will explain it all.
viewtopic.php?f=85&t=91676

To my Christian Brothers and Sisters, i would like to ask for prayer, you'd all know how difficult these times can be.

Thankyou.

[Come_Forth]

I am sorry to hear that, I hope that your situation will work out ok.

[Solus]

Thankyou. Fortunately there is some holidays coming (end of today) and i can sleep at least... i still need to do a lot of work for school tho.

[Come_Forth]

If there is a God and he is indeed the God of the bible then it isnt a question as to wether you should follow him, it is an imperative that you must indeed follow him. If the God of the Christian bible is true, then so also is the fact that he is our creator and as such our judge and our reason for existance. If the Christian God is real then man has no place to question him but rather must humbly submit to his will and glorify him.

I doubt it man, even if He did exist He would not get my worship. I focus only on the here and now, and don't want to focus on an afterlife. If your God wants to help me improve the world and feed the hungry that is great, but it seems it is only left up to us humans so that is why all I care about is humans, and why I am a secular humanist. Meh, if I God decides to send me to hell that is fine.

[TheWay]

.:SOULLESS:.,

I will be praying for you m8, just make sure you have your priorities straight and that SGW doesnt interfere with your school work. In any case My wife, and I will pray for you. Try reading Philippians 4:4-13

Come_Forth,

Well m8 you would not be the only person to say such things and although I am sad to hear that, I also understand you have been given freewill just as I, and so you certaintly have the right to say that. However I also believe that there will come a day when all creation will stand before God and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord. With man's current perspective it is easy to stand defiant against God, but one day that choice will reap its fruit. If you care about humans and God is real then arent you by your own admission ushering others to an eternity in hell, that doesnt seem very caring. So again the issue is realy wether God is indeed true and if the bible is true because if it is and you truly care about man, then I would assume you would tell them how they might avoid hell, not that that is the only reason by any stretch but I am just making a point. Also I would realy like to hear your response and I love that you are here expressing yourself, as I welcome it and enjoy the disscusions.

[Solus]

Thankyou WeaponZero. Once again, i feel encouraged by your words. the bible reference helps too,

[Mojo Rising]

@Soulless,

My prayers are with you mate. Weapon_Zero gave you an excellent verse to meditate on. Hold onto that.

@Come_Forth,

So you believe in the concept of Hell (and thus Satan) but you don't believe in the concept of a just and loving God and a place called Heaven? And, judging from what you said, it seems to me that you believe in an afterlife of sorts, otherwise you wouldn't have said, "If God decides to send me to Hell, that is fine."

Your life on earth = 75-80 years. Life of your immortal soul = infinity. This time we spend here on earth is but a second compared to the life of our immortal soul. And yet, you would use that "second" to spend the rest of eternity in eternal damnation?

I suppose I should ask you the three questions I ask everyone before going further into a discussion such as this.

1.) Where do you believe you go when you die?
2.) If Heaven exists, do you think you would go there when you die and why?
3.) If your answer to question two is wrong, would you want to know?

I look forward to hearing from you and from any others who wish to answer these three questions.

[Come_Forth]

Sorry about the vague post, I should have said if your God is real blah blah blah. What I mean is that I am happy with my beliefs and if I get punished for them that is fine.
To answer your questions
1. We cease to exist when the brain stops.
2. No, if the Christian heaven exists I am screwed.
3. Sure, but I don't see how you can say an agnostic/atheist is going to heaven.

If there is a heaven I would like it to be works based, because that is how I think one should live a life having a positive impact instead of a negative one. If there is a hell, it would be acceptable to me if it was only temporary and after one's punishment one is able to go to heaven.

[Fear Of The Duck]

well. if God loves us all and there's an atheist living a decent life and he dies, then he realizes his mistake and ends up in pergatory for some "time" (of course, there's no time there, not time as we know it )

[TheWay]

Let me address the issue of works salvation. Let me explain quickly whta the deffinition of sin is biblicaly, it is to fall short of the mark and that mark is Christ who was and is perfect. So in effect the only life that is acceptable is nothing short of perfection. If you are wondering then how anyone gets to heaven it is a theological issue called imputed rightousness, where by Chrsit not only died for all of our sins (to those who believe and accept that gift) but he also lived a perfect life in our ploace with complete rightousness, so when he trade places with us taking on our sin we took on his rightousness being made completely new and free from the penalty of our sin. Now being restored from and sin and made rightous we could have relatioship with a perfect God. I hope that explains it. I probally explained it better some where else in one of the post lol.

[Mojo Rising]

Sorry about the vague post, I should have said if your God is real blah blah blah. What I mean is that I am happy with my beliefs and if I get punished for them that is fine.
To answer your questions
1. We cease to exist when the brain stops.
2. No, if the Christian heaven exists I am screwed.
3. Sure, but I don't see how you can say an agnostic/atheist is going to heaven.

If there is a heaven I would like it to be works based, because that is how I think one should live a life having a positive impact instead of a negative one. If there is a hell, it would be acceptable to me if it was only temporary and after one's punishment one is able to go to heaven.

Heaven is a place of perfection. Nothing imperfect can make it to Heaven. We, all of us, you, me, Weapon_Zero, everyone is a sinner. No matter how many good works we do, we have our failings, our jealousies, or hates, our desires. So we all are born with this disease, Sin, and it is fatal. It is going to kill us someday, not just physically but spiritually as well. And it separates us from Heaven. We cannot get there ourselves, because it is a place of perfection and we are imperfect. But God sent His Son to earth to become man, to give us the perfect example of what a perfect, God-led life is like. But, even more than that, He let that perfect Son of God and son of man hang on the cross and bear the sins of the world away, thereby making each man perfect that accepts his precious gift of salvation. He said, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Light. No man comes to the Father but through Me."

Now, here comes the best part: the cost of this gift is.....FREE. That's right. It doesn't cost you a thing. His grace is upon everyone and anyone that chooses to accept this gift (the salvation of Jesus Christ) will have eternal life.

Now you are probably saying, "Mojo, it can't possibly be that easy!" And I tell you that yes it is......and no it isn't. Yes, it is that easy if you accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal savior. No, for some, it isn't easy to submit yourself totally to another person or power. We all like to feel that we are somehow in control (yes even me at times). And the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal savior is an admission that you know that you can't do it alone. I understand that it is hard. But say the doctor that you go to tells you that you are going to die in six months, but you say, "Doc, I feel fine. I am fit as a fiddle" and he says, I am sorry you have a disease and will die in six months, but I have some good news. One of the drug companies has come out with a pill that cures the disease that you have. And the good news is the cost of this drug is.....FREE. How many of you are going to refuse the drug? You don't feel bad, but this doctor, whom you have to trust in order to get this drug, is telling you that you are going to die if you don't have it. Are you going to tell him that, gee Doc thanks but I think I will try a program of vigorous exercise and diet and see if I can't get rid of the disease myself. He assures you that the pill is the only way and you only have to take it and the disease will be gone. I am willing to bet that most of you are taking the pill (I know I am). Jesus is saying the same thing: you have a disease called Sin. It separates you from the Father. But there is a cure and I am it. All you have to do is accept that I am your salvation and you will live forever.

Well it's late and I have probably rambled a little bit. Good night and God Bless!

[TheWay]

Mojo I dont think you rambled m8, great points and great post. I am glad you have begun posting here with the rest of us and I hope others in the community will join the discussion. I hope this can be a place for questions and answers a place of faith and a place wondering and doubt. Spread the word so we can continue the dialogue