Israel vs Hamas, whom do you support?

[Tacet]

I support Israel. If someone made it his life's goal to kill me, I would do everything I can to stop him from doing so. If sweet talk or legal action don't cut it, chances are that I'll hunt him in order to save myself.

I can't think of any Western nation who's friendly to terrorists. It's easy to shout about finding a peaceful means to stop a war - if you're not in it.

As for the death of innocents: it is sad, I totally agree that innocents should be left alone. But if military targets are hiding amongst innocents, who's fault is it that innocents are killed: the attackers' or the targets'?

If you don't know what it is about:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/1 ... _gaza.html

@Any mod: I couldn't decide whether to put this in Debate or not. If you feel that it fits debate better, please move.


I'll leave this here, but at the first sign of flaming or other disrespectful behaviour, it gets a lock. Keep that in mind. Civility is one of our values, post accordingly.

Note: This thread is NOT about the origins of the conflict between Israel and the Arabs, NOT about who has a right to live in the region, and NOT about the 'fight' between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Be careful, be respectful, and be honest.

[Juliette]

I'll leave this here, but at the first sign of flaming or other disrespectful behaviour, it gets a lock. Keep that in mind. Civility is one of our values, post accordingly.

Note: This thread is NOT about the origins of the conflict between Israel and the Arabs, NOT about who has a right to live in the region, and NOT about the 'fight' between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Be careful, be respectful, and be honest.


Interesting you put this up now, Tacet. Took a look at my sig, didn't ya.


I'm a solid supporter of Israel, for the following reasons.
1. Every nation (people, united by history, language or a common cause) has a historical right to exist. It is up to them to carve for themselves a geographical piece of the continents.
2. Every nation has a right to defend themselves against attacks from malicious outside and inside forces. It depends on the form of government in which manner this 'defence' presents itself.
3. No one has the right to kill another human being.
4. Point 2 supercedes Point 3.

Sure, there are plenty other reasons, and the whole debate on who is right and who is wrong cannot be solved quickly, but in this current conflict, Israel clearly is the correct party.



Off-topic:
I have such a dislike for looneys like Ban-Ki-Moon who say: "To both sides I say: 'Just stop!'", because that is just stupid. Sorry, mr. Secretary-General, but that statement was wrong on so many levels that I cannot begin to explain.

[Cole]

I support none officially, but I tend to understand more Israel's side than the other.
So, no vote from me, as it's not "supporting", just "understanding".

[Mordack]

There are faults on both sides. To me at least, this is far too greyer an area to 'pick a side.'

[Fear Of The Duck]

1. israel vs hamas: i support israel. hamas terrorists need to be wiped out.


2. the problem of palestine as a whole is a bit more complicated.


3. i'm not sure of the strategic wisdom of the attack on gaza strip.. it might be a phyrric victory and bring hamas more supporters in the end..


4. everybody who thinks and peace talks initiated by third parties, be it UN, UESR or others will change anything doesn't know much about the ways the world works. anyways, ONE DOESN'T NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS. ONE SHOOTS THEM.


5. which one would ya choose?


hamas:






israel:







for more idf babes why not visit corran's ultimate military babes appreciation thread?

[Tacet]

I support none officially, but I tend to understand more Israel's side than the other.
So, no vote from me, as it's not "supporting", just "understanding".

"Support" might have been a poor choice of words. I don't mean any official supporting, just which side has more of your sympathy. I hope this is a better way of phrasing it?

[Cole]

I support none officially, but I tend to understand more Israel's side than the other.
So, no vote from me, as it's not "supporting", just "understanding".

"Support" might have been a poor choice of words. I don't mean any official supporting, just which side has more of your sympathy. I hope this is a better way of phrasing it?

Ah. I thought it was support with t-shirts, debating pro-one side, slogans and all!
Like for exemple...Obama or McCain, who do you support?

[Biscuit]

If there was ever a reason to take a side I think corran found it

[Tyber Zann]

Israel. I like their "I wont take your crap policy"

[Lithium]

i do support hamas, even if they are using terrorist tactics they are fighting for their land that land they had for more then 2k years , which were taken by others that created the Israel country, they removed the israelian they had in all europe and send them to that land.

ppl blame so called terrorist act's coz they could kill innocent ppl in their cities and dont blame the bombs dropped by their countries causing many losses and chaos. its the same at the end innocents are the one who dies.

Isreal is already a country there but it should release the occupied territory and let ppl live in peace, a peace that they dont want ,
they killed Yitzhak Rabin, they want war with Iran, US administration rejected their demand to help them to raid Iran few months ago.

[Biscuit]

ppl blame so called terrorist act's coz they could kill innocent ppl in their cities and dont blame the bombs dropped by their countries causing many losses and chaos. its the same at the end innocents are the one who dies.

Anyone who fights in a war is a terrorist.

i do support hamas, even if they are using terrorist tactics they are fighting for their land that land they had for more then 2k years , which were taken by others that created the Israel country, they removed the israelian they had in all europe and send them to that land.

Great point ^

[Cole]

they killed Yitzhak Rabin,

That's a big problem there, but I do think it was same kind of assassination that Gandhi suffered from. So it's perhaps not as bad as it seems (I don't mean killing a good leader is not that bad, I mean that it's worse if governement/administration is really involved in it).

I do think we don't have to judge who deserve this place more than the other, who's the right one and who's wrong one, according to the topic guidelines posted earlier...

[Lithium]

i see tacet doesnt understand when the enemy shoot yr house wit a tank and the only think u can do is to bury yr children's.
then u start fighting with what u can , to hit where it hurts etc.

[Tacet]

2006 : Hamas wins the election. Hamas starts rocket attacks against Israel. Israel responds by closing the borders, cutting Gaza of from all supplies.

2007 : Hamas ousts Fatah, the opposition party, in a civil war (started by Fatah). Fatah won the civil war on the West Bank, and created a separate government there. Israel responds by tightening the blockade on Gaza.

2008 : A cease fire is brokered between Israel and Hamas. Israel expect Hamas to cease rocket attacks. Hamas expect Israel to lift the blockade, and allow unrestricted traffic through the border. Neither does what the other side expects.

2008 : Hamas formally ends the cease fire. Hamas increases the rocket attacks. Israel responds with the current invasion. Aim of the invasion: to stop Hamas rocket attacks.

2009 : Egypt/France proposes a new cease fire which allows for increased aid into the Gaza region and talks with Israel on border security.

Today : both Israel and Hamaz seems to find the broad terms of the cease fire acceptable. Fighting in Gaza and rocket attacks continues.

All I can say is that, should someone start attacking my country with rockets the moment they take to power, I would fully support any military action my country choose to take. The tanks came after the suicide bombers and the rockets.

In modern ethics there is a golden rule: Treat others only as you consent to being treated in the same situation. If Israel were to follow that, they could attack Hamas without any danger to Israeli soldiers. Instead they chose to invade with troops, which shows a little bit more discrimination in who they kill.

That's basically all I can say. In any war there are two sides, and many truths. We'll probably never agree on the legitimacy of the Israeli invasion. Fortunately, we debate it with words. Unfortunately, over there, people dies for it.

Finally - in reading up on this whole issue, one thing got to me. On both sides people are killed, lives are disrupted and hatred is nurtured because of a conflict ages old. It's saddening. I think so many wrongs were committed by both sides, that it will take a miracle to heal those people and to really bring peace to the region. My prayers will be for that region tonight - they need it.

[RBR]

this morning the Israelian army leaders proudly affirmed that thay managed to kill tha hamas prime minister...
who is THE TERORIST..., that part I don`t get
Hamas is just a movement, an oppozition to a far superior adversar, put your self in their skin:
-the Israel slowly ocupe your grandfathers territory, supported by US, they keeps you surraunded like your a cow, they have no intention to stop, no mercy for nobody, they have the far most advanced army in the region, satelites, rakets and tanks
-you: have a family, slowly no land, no water, no education, no helthcare, no house...becose there been occupated or bombardated, you barly manage to sustain your family, you have some TNT and a Kalashnikov, becose there are cheep...
what you will do..??????????????????????????????

think a moment befor calling somebody terorist