Attack planets

[Lord Ishkur]

Attack planets or not, defenses will be taken no matter what.

[TacticalCommander]

Attack and Defense planets are not balanced.

Last I checked, and just confirmed using LegoCalc v4 which I believe is still up to date in terms of planet calculation. http://www.arvystate.net/calc2/

To build a 50bil defense planet, size monstrous, costs just over 4 trillion naq. (52,083 facilities)
To build a 50bil attack planet, size monstrous, costs just 2.6 trillion naq.(41,667 facilities)

That attack planet can also be used to farm to help pay for itself. It is also much cheaper to replace if stolen.

Seriously, spread across 10 planets that 1.4 trillion naq difference becomes 14 Trillion naq difference. People with attack planets who acquire the same amount of resources have and extra 14 tril to put into planet defenses.

So please refrain from saying anything along the lines that if one nerfs attacks planets, then one must do the same for defense planets to keep them "balanced".

So I would say, the first step in solving this problem would be to cut back on the amount of attack power each attack facility provides. Meaning: make it so attack planets also need 52,083 facilities to reach 50bil power.

This solution is best for 3 reasons.
1. Nobody loses any naq investment. Just the attack power will not be as high as it once was.
2. should be easy to implement.
3. While not a complete solution, it is a step in the right direction, and we can go from that point to find out just how much adjustment would be needed (if at all) to balance out the fact that attack planets can be used to farm extra naq. I personally don't think any further adjustment would be needed because of the risk of retaliation if you hit the wrong person offsets the potential gain from farming. Of course, I've been out of the loop in terms of farming in main, so I probably can't say too much on that matter.

TC

[bigcakes]

defense planets also help pay for themselves by DEFENDING income. The attack and defense planet facility power may be different but the attack and defense slot power on ms is complete opposite. defense slots on ms are immensely more powerful so i say we just leave it how it is instead of trying to make everything completely equal because u would have to redo half the game.
kbye
john

[TacticalCommander]

Help by defending income: well, that is difficult to judge and yeah they do help with that, but attack planets also kinda do that as they allow one to threaten to mass anyone to who hits that person. Also defending income is a much slower process than farming income, oh, one has to have a larger defense to defend income.(more on this part later)

defense slots on ms are immensely more powerful so i say we just leave it how it is instead of trying to make everything completely equal because u would have to redo half the game.

First off, were not trying to make everything equal, this thread is about attack and defense planets.
Now here is where I have a real problem with your post bigcakes, You claim that the admin would HAVE to change half this game if this whole rebalancing of the attack/defense planet thing went through.

Where I'm having trouble following is this whole "have to" part and the "half the game" portion. Yet you offered no supporting argument or examples to support that claim, other than a brief: MS comment that was not even backed up.

You didn't say anything about how having cheaper shields works to a MS favor to a point that it needs to be readjusted.

Not to recently, a significantly smaller MS without shields could mass a much a larger MS with shields at lower costs. It has only been with the fairly recent changes to damage that has been rectified and I do not think it needs any further adjusting. Some might argue for removal of the 1 AT MS massing but, that really doesn't have anything to do with the adjusting the cost to build slots on MS.

Now defense slots are individually more powerful than a single volley slot. They also cost more to have slots and actual shield weapons themselves installed. Sure at 50k shield slots (15 tril naq), you would need 75k volley slots (28 trillion naq) just to match that power level, but you unlike attack/defense, one does not need to match power level to mass a MS with bigger shields. Also, the expensive part, the slots of an MS, don't get destroyed.

And seeing as shields must be damaged first, it is likely most players probably have to end up paying more for shield generator replacement in the long run than in terms pod volley replacement, so eventually one ends up paying more for shielding than volleys as shields will need replace more often than volley depending on how your MS ends up in fights or farming.
Also, having a ton in MS shielding may help one stop MS bonus in a single or few hits, but without a volley system to back it up in a massing, those massive shields become militarily useless other than maybe delaying the inevitable for a few minutes.

Either MS cost needs readjustment, or it doesn't, regardless that adjustment is not contingent upon attack planets being adjusted, so I'm going to stop taking about it and ask you keep that to another thread if you really think the game needs it.

Back on topic of defending income and massing
To truly have any chance of surviving a defense massing and farming, one has to have a defense larger than that of the attacker. In terms of planets, attack weapons and strength, the attacker can build a larger attack much cheaper than that of the defender. Not to mention can currently mass for next to nothing, and suffer little loss in return if played right.


Finally, I would also state for the record, defense planets do indirectly defend covert as most people tend to remove a defense before attempting to AC a covert.

TC

[Sarevok]

Fyi, LegoCalc's defense calculation are incorrect (in terms of planet defenses, not stats)