Israel... what do you think?

[Hitchkok]

1) before anything, please read this.

2) this is not a debate. it is a discussion. there are no rights and wrongs, just opinions and views.

3) having said that, facts are relevent. please DO NOT base your posts on false/doubious facts.

4) you can see by my sig which side i'm on, and i will disclose my views later on (and you'll might be surprised). but first, in the interest of appropriate disclosure (as well as a way to give you something to start at), here are some facts about myself:
I am jewish.
I was born and I live in Israel.
I served in the I.D.F for 4 years (3 mandatory and 1 voluntary).
I served at the west bank, and as an officer at both the Gaza strip and the Golan heights.
In Gaza, I served in a battalion composed mostly of Bedouin soldiers.


now, discuss.

oh, and another thing. please keep this clean and wholesome. i have asked semper to keep a close eye on this one.

[Juliette]

Hail Israel, glorious nation.
My opinion? I love Israel. And that goes into the -for the unwitting observer- absurd, I think.

[andell]

nuke me
[spoiler]jkjk don't have the knowledge to answer the question correctly and i'm to lazy to get that knowledge...[/spoiler]

[[KMA]Avenger]

haven't we had this discussion already?!


AH YES WE HAVE!


viewtopic.php?f=167&t=134622&start=0

anyways...my views are clear on the matter...BUT...since there is no way that American backed Is-Ra-El will ever be handed back to its rightful owners, then at the very least the Israeli Govt should be held to account and charged with Genocide and murder.

i'm sorry if this offends anyone, but if we are going to speak, then lets speak honestly.

[Hitchkok]

i haven't looket through that link yet, but heres a couple of questions:
when you say rightful owners, what is it based upon?
when you say genocide, what is it based upon (and please remember, i served in the west bank and in gaza, so i know what i'm talking about)?

[[KMA]Avenger]

the first known inhabitants of Israel in historic times were the Canaanites


as for the charges of murder and genocide...i could show you a bunch of graphs comparing Israeli deaths vs Palestinian deaths, but seriously...what's the point in that?

unlike most around here (or anywhere else for that matter) i dont get my information or news from mainstream sources, so you wont get any parroting or quotes of misinformation from me.

[Juliette]

i dont get my information or news from mainstream sources, so you wont get any parroting or quotes of misinformation from me.

Sweetie, I hate it when you do that. You are just as guilty of parroting as everyone else here. You're just parroting something else, but it's just as well someone else's ideas. Ideas you might feel are true, just like we feel other ideas are true, but still.. just the ideas of someone else. Sure, some supported by fact, some by supposition, some by derivation.. same as everyone else. Just the same.

Now, from that point, continue.

[[KMA]Avenger]

well, that's something i have to counter now isn't it sweets?!

as i've stated many times, if reading a book or site or listening to the radio, watching a documentary, i ALWAYS take notes and go and research the key points. in many instances, the info my research brings me to is even more detailed than the original source.
so, to sum up, its other people that give me the key info, but its my research that dredges up the dirt, and without me further investigating then i would be "parroting"

[[KMA]Avenger]

i've got a couple soultions which should settle the claim to the land once and for all...

the Israeli Got and the Palestinian Govt meet on the field of battle armed only with their fists, feet and teeth and go at it. whoever wins keeps the land and the other goes packing to whichever country/s will take them in.


OR, we take away Israel's, nukes, tanks, warships, planes helicopters and other advanced weapons away from them and see how long they last against an angry mob of parents who've lost loved ones in a bombing...

the 2nd is the one i would go with.

[Hitchkok]

the first known inhabitants of Israel in historic times were the Canaanites

which (as was previously explained to you) has nothing to do with this discussion. i will give you a more elaborate history lesson tommorow (it's past 00:00 here, and it's a work day tommorow).

as for the charges of murder and genocide...i could show you a bunch of graphs comparing Israeli deaths vs Palestinian deaths, but seriously...what's the point in that?

that's all nice and dandy, and some of these graphs might even be accurate, but keep in mind two simple facts:
1) genocide is "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group." (a dictionary.com definition).
this isn't happening.

2) most israely deaths are of innocent people. the killing of innocent people is regarded as Holy War (Jihad) and the killer as a martyr (Sha'hid), by the Hamas, the elected government of the palestinian people in Gaza. most palestinian deaths are of armed terrorists. killing an innocent person is regarded as murder by the israely people and government.

now, this

i've got a couple soultions which should settle the claim to the land once and for all...

the Israeli Got and the Palestinian Govt meet on the field of battle armed only with their fists, feet and teeth and go at it. whoever wins keeps the land and the other goes packing to whichever country/s will take them in.


OR, we take away Israel's, nukes, tanks, warships, planes helicopters and other advanced weapons away from them and see how long they last against an angry mob of parents who've lost loved ones in a bombing...

the 2nd is the one i would go with.

isn't even worthy of response.

[Kit-Fox]

On a hiding to nothing the lot of you, this keeps going round & round and will never end.

Best to step away from this perhaps? Even in this section of the forum?

EDIT: I'd just like to add that i'm not trying to derail anything or be a partypooper & rain on your parade or anything like that. Its just that things like this never seem to end well because of problems that exist on both sides & the supporters of both sides.

[TheAnimal]

I think Israel should back off.

They got a land they don't deserve based upon a fairytale some drunkards came up with (although that isn't the real reason, however it is the claimed reason) but are they happy there? Of course not, they deserve more then what they got don't they? And what better way to get that then to war?!

[Juliette]

I think Israel should back off.

They got a land they don't deserve based upon a fairytale some drunkards came up with (although that isn't the real reason, however it is the claimed reason) but are they happy there? Of course not, they deserve more then what they got don't they? And what better way to get that then to war?!

A bit off the mark there?

[semper]

I am indeed watching. Keep it clean. If you've got something to say, justify it properly. I don't want any racism or religious hatred or the thread is confined to the flames instantly.

[TheAnimal]

I think Israel should back off.

They got a land they don't deserve based upon a fairytale some drunkards came up with (although that isn't the real reason, however it is the claimed reason) but are they happy there? Of course not, they deserve more then what they got don't they? And what better way to get that then to war?!

A bit off the mark there?

Off the mark you say? I thought that was indeed why Israel was fighting? For their belief and they say they are the rightful owners of that land based upon a tale.

Semper: I'm not a racist nor do I want to spread religious hatred. I just fail to see how they can say they are rightful owners of that land based on their belief.