HMV gets bailout money!!!!

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HMV gets bailout money!!!!

I'm so pissed-off right now, this is getting beyond ludicrous. we are now bailing-out companies the likes of HMV...i mean...WT-F IS ALL THAT ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

As i said many months ago, we are now on the verge of QE3 (quantitative easing for those that don't know), and this time they will not announce they are doing it. what all these bailouts comes down to is very simple, we are now feeling the pinch of inflation caused by QE1, we still have the inflation of QE's 2 and 3 to come and that will more than likely cause hyper inflation.

Anyways, what is your opinion about companies like HMV being bailed out.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

I'm sorry, not familiar with the company.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

For those that dont know HMV ( His Masters Voice ), it is primarily a music shop, although they do sell some DVDs and games too, and there has been a HMV in every UK city for many decades.

The UK government is not bailing them out, Lloyds Bank ( 83% government owned from the banking bailouts last years ) and Royal Bank of Scotland ( 41% government owned from the banking bailouts last years ) are bailing them out.

Basically HMV cant repay the debts it already has to these banks, and has no more security to borrow against, but the banks rather than take a loss by letting HMV go under have decided to refinance the company for shares. HMV intends to use the refinancing to diversify into other tech sales, things like Ipads.


Personally I think the banks as usual are throwing good money away to prop up a company that owes them money so they dont have to write of large debts and damage the banks own profits on the year, delaying their losses until next year or the year after by spending/lending more. Music sales and profitability have been in decline since the creation of the internet and will continue to drop, and the area's HMV wants to diversify into are already flooded markets.

This iconic highstreet store is sadly doomed, undercut by internet shops, downloads and supermarkets. Unlike others like Woolworths who were in the same situation and went under suddenly closing 100s of stores nationwide overnight, HMV will start closing stores one by one and die slowly.




As for Quantitative Easing ( a totally unrelated topic ), this is essentially printing more money, and if you think of currency as shares in a country consider what happens when a company worth 1 Mill splits it's shares from 1,000 to 10,000, the price of an individual share drops by 1/10. Same with currency, the international value drops with QE, this directly effects international exchange rates, you get less foreign currency for your native currency so imports rise in price, and since the UK imports pretty much everything the price of pretty much everything will rise, hence inflation. It will also mean our exports will be cheaper for foreign countries to buy and foreign companies/banks/investers will get more for their money in the UK than elsewhere so be encouraged to move their money here.

The government is hoping that QE will cause imports will drop so more people buy local produce, that exports will rise having a positive effect on our trade deficit and that more foreign money will be invested in the UK.

IMO QE is generally a good thing for big business and a bad thing for individuals, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, no change there.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

Bugger that mate!

If the Govt is so concerned about it's citizens buying home-grown/local produce they would have slapped tariffs on all imports and made the market more competitive by doing so because companies that have left the UK for cheaper labour elsewhere would have either taken a loss in profits due to higher tariffs or bring the jobs back and produce the goods here (or in which ever respective country) thereby passing that saving on to the consumer.

That would be much better at "stimulating" the economy instead of throwing money at the situation hoping it fixes itself.

Back to HMV, so, the banks we bailed out are now throwing OUR money away by bailing out a failing firm which is more or less nothing short of a prolonged death which will result in a bigger crash in the end...that makes sense...my youngest son (7 years old) could do a better job running the economy than these dumb half wits-actually, that's an insult to all dumb half wits-these maniacs can!


EDIT:

Hold on a mo! there's one aspect of this i've only just noticed...so the banks we GAVE money to at ZERO interest have turned around and re-borrowed that money to HMV AT INTEREST ](*,) #-o :-k
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

same thing is happening here in Australia govt hand out money to organisations that are on the verge of bankruptcy now they have to pay this extra money back so if they are going bankrupt how will they find the extra cash to pay the interest????? so simple but yet some many are blind???
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Bugger that mate!

If the Govt is so concerned about it's citizens buying home-grown/local produce they would have slapped tariffs on all imports and made the market more competitive by doing so because companies that have left the UK for cheaper labour elsewhere would have either taken a loss in profits due to higher tariffs or bring the jobs back and produce the goods here (or in which ever respective country) thereby passing that saving on to the consumer.

That would be much better at "stimulating" the economy instead of throwing money at the situation hoping it fixes itself.

Back to HMV, so, the banks we bailed out are now throwing OUR money away by bailing out a failing firm which is more or less nothing short of a prolonged death which will result in a bigger crash in the end...that makes sense...my youngest son (7 years old) could do a better job running the economy than these dumb half wits-actually, that's an insult to all dumb half wits-these maniacs can!


EDIT:

Hold on a mo! there's one aspect of this i've only just noticed...so the banks we GAVE money to at ZERO interest have turned around and re-borrowed that money to HMV AT INTEREST ](*,) #-o :-k


The UK government did not give our money to the banks, nor did it lend money at 0% interest, this is a common misconception. The government bought shares in the banks hence why we the public now own a % of the banks. When the banks recover and their share price is higher the government will sell the shares for a lot more than they paid for them.

That said, it is true that the money the government used to buy these shares was itself borrowed from the world bank and the interest the government pays will probably be higher than the increase in share price, so we the public will make a loss and saving the failing banks has and will continue to cost us.

Taxing imports sounds good, making the imports cost more than native produce & services is a great common sense move for any country with a trade deficit, but and this is a big BUT, doing this would cause massive inflation, the costs of everything would rise significantly, there would be rioting in the streets and the government would fall if it tried to do this.

On Quantitative Easing, remember the money the government is printing is also spent on UK services, the worrying thing about QE is that historically QE has always been followed buy interest rate rises to keep inflation in check. Over the last couple of years everything has risen in price but most people havent felt the brunt of it due to interest rates being so low, if interest rates rise anyone with a loan or mortgage is really going to start feeling the pinch.

Back to the share purchase the banks have made in HMV, this is a stupid move. HMV already owe the banks money and the only good reason I can think of for this investment is to delay the collapse of HMV, put off the writing off of these debts for a year or 2 so the banks profits dont take a big hit this year, it's basically falsifying their accounts by making a bad debt look like an investment on paper.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

The problem with HMV is that it is just much more expensive than internet sellers like Amazon. It also has much less choice. So long as that continues HMV is doomed to failure and unless they diversify into some totally different business, one on which they can't be beaten on price, the banks have just prolonged the inevitable.

It is just a shame that the banks have learnt nothing from the crash.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

I never understood how a heavily indebted nation like the USA was able to 'cancel' the debts of some other nations without 'breaking a sweat'.
If I am 100million in debt, and my neighbour 1million, how can I possibly pay off his 1million debt? :-s Quantitative easing is self-deception and a slap in the face of foreign investors in national obligations.


Anyway, I'm all for saving HMV, but by regular market use. Not by spending money which doesn't exist. That got us into this mess in the first place.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

Why save an antiquated business model? You're only holding yourself back. They had the opportunity to evolve, they did not. Now it is their time to die. As much as I hate the loss of brick and mortars.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

[BoT] Jack wrote:Why save an antiquated business model? You're only holding yourself back. They had the opportunity to evolve, they did not. Now it is their time to die. As much as I hate the loss of brick and mortars.
Mortars. Could use them to clear out the building? ;)
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

Juliette wrote:I never understood how a heavily indebted nation like the USA was able to 'cancel' the debts of some other nations without 'breaking a sweat'.
If I am 100million in debt, and my neighbour 1million, how can I possibly pay off his 1million debt? :-s Quantitative easing is self-deception and a slap in the face of foreign investors in national obligations.


Writing off international debts is completely separate to Quantitative Easing, if your neighbouring nation owes your nation $1 Bill and cant afford the interest payments then its a bad debt anyway and your own nations fault for lending more than could ever be repaid, this debt will also prevent your neighbour from buying goods off you, so you can either keep taking the interest payments until they default on the loan all the time watching your exports to the country fall, or you can write off the debt allowing the neighbour to keep buying stuff from you and putting money into your economy, in such cases w/o the debt is the best option. QE as per my above post will also make the exchange rates favorable for exports though it does have several other effects which are not all good.

The real problem is commercialism, it relies on constant growth which is fundamentally unsustainable giving us constant cycles of boom and bust. During the boom times the wealthiest gain the most while in the bust times everyone losses so on every cycle more of the wealth is left in the hands of fewer people.

[BoT] Jack wrote:Why save an antiquated business model? You're only holding yourself back. They had the opportunity to evolve, they did not. Now it is their time to die. As much as I hate the loss of brick and mortars.


Sad but true,

Illegal downloads
Internet shops with minimal overheads
Minimum wage preventing the hiring of young cheap staff as in the past
Undercutting by out of town Supermarkets with greater purchasing power
Massive local authority business rates on city center stores
Insane parking prices to go into city centers with rubbish public transport

Shops like HMV are a dieing breed, and unless you want to permanently subsidise them they will soon be confined to the fond memories of childhood.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

Juliette wrote:
[BoT] Jack wrote:Why save an antiquated business model? You're only holding yourself back. They had the opportunity to evolve, they did not. Now it is their time to die. As much as I hate the loss of brick and mortars.
Mortars. Could use them to clear out the building? ;)

What better way to demolish a building than with explosive rain?
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

[BoT] Jack wrote:
Juliette wrote:
[BoT] Jack wrote:Why save an antiquated business model? You're only holding yourself back. They had the opportunity to evolve, they did not. Now it is their time to die. As much as I hate the loss of brick and mortars.
Mortars. Could use them to clear out the building? ;)

What better way to demolish a building than with explosive rain?


Their fate will be far worse than demolition or rain of fire, they will no doubt become Starbucks, or branded label clothes shops, let the mindless masses think more of themselves by drinking poncy frothy coffee and wearing tags as status symbols to parade how much money they can afford to waste.
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

I drink Starbucks. 8-[
Ya'll acting like you know what monster is
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All monsters think you can fuss with this
Well you can talk to me Snuffleupagus
Me sneak into your house, me leave before dawn
Your daughters will be pregnant and your cookies will be gone
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Re: HMV gets bailout money!!!!

His Master Voice rings much more a bell to me than "HMV". It's sad to hear they are such in bad situation. :(
Such a historical company dating from the origins of wax discs (don't know if I translated it correctly).
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