Genetral EU discussion.

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[[KMA]Avenger]

You of course realise that for the last couple of years the UK at least and probably France too have constantly been bringing down the amount of oil we buy from Iran, either directly or through intermediaries.

So the actual effect of this 'ban' should in fact be minimal to the UK anyways. Not that fuel companies wont use this as an excuse of course.

And the ban is a perfectly valid response to Irans stupidity in purusing nuclear weapons & we can be pretty sure they are trying to develop weapons given what we know about their 'program'

You also do realise that Iran is not after weapons grade plutonium, that weapons inspectors have stated in no uncertain terms that Iran doesn't have the capability to refine nuclear materials to 90% in order to get "the bomb", and further that Iran has even offered the west a deal whereby the west will be in charge of refining the materials for Iran's nuclear power industry to assure the west and alleviate any concerns we may have of them getting "the bomb", an offer the west has refused to take up because "they" are hell bent on having their war with Iran.

A - You dont need plutonium to make a nuclear weapon, you dont even need any fissile material refined to what we call 'weapons grade' to make a nuclear weapon

B - Again no refining is actually nesseccary to make a nuclear weapon. All that refining does is increase the yield and force of the nuclear weapon.

C - Iran offered a deal that left us with little oversight over how materials were going to be used once they were within Iran. We are not going to just hand over nicely refined fissile materials to someone like Iran for them to return it to us in the form of a weapon thnak you very much. Do you think we are suicidal or something???

D - We really dont want a war with Iran, but neither can you expect us to just sit back and let a country that has explicitly stated its intent to attack the west with nuclear weapons numerous times in the past to aquire such weapons, again, suicidal we are not.

There's allot of propaganda surrounding Iran and their "stated" intentions. such as the statement about wiping out Israel, Ahmadinajad never said he wanted to wipe Israel of the map. according to numerous different translations, Ahmadinejad never used the word "map" instead his statement was in the context of time and applied to the Zionist regime occupying Jerusalem. Ahmadinejad was expressing his future hope that the Zionist regime in Israel would fall, not that Iran was going to physically destroy Israel. as for Iran wanting to bomb the west...do you seriously think that Iran would do such a thing? that Russia and China would allow Iran to possess such a weapon if Iran had any intention of using it against us and not for power generation which would more than likely start WW3?

If you look at the Korean situation, north Korea has nukes, and a state of war still exists between North Korea and the US, why is no one worried about NK but are willing to risk all out nuclear war with China and Russia over Iran?



Edit, lets consider for a moment that Iran is actively pursuing "the bomb", the CIA's own reports have stated that Iran is a minimum of 5 years away from building 1 IF they are in the planning stages now. also, satellite imagery and weapons inspectors have confirmed this and have not found a single shred of evidence to support the media's continued hype that "Iran wants to bomb us". compare that to Israel's guesstimate of 200 Nukes and god knows how many US nukes and mini nukes, 4 or 5 thousand full sized weapons at least...would you agree?
Regardless, Iran having 1 nuke would be like me taking on a T-Rex in a territorial dispute. if Irans intention was to get 1 nuke to start a war or teach the west a lesson, Iran are wasting their time and money. if they want war all they have to do is block the strait of Hormuz and Voilà, they will have their war. if they really wanted to kill people all they have to do is send a few suicide bombers all around the world...or do you think we have such great security that we would be able to stop a few thousand suicide bombers from blowing up people in shopping centres, airports, whatever?



Edit 2, read this and look at the map. as the article says "who's the real threat here", i would have said "who's the real threat here?"

http://www.prisonplanet.com/5-reasons-i ... e-u-s.html

[MEZZANINE]

@ KMA, your straying a bit from the EU, but this is what The Guardian, one of the most liberal and anti-war UK newspapers said

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran

Iran's new president created a sense of outrage in the west yesterday by describing Israel as a "disgraceful blot" that should be "wiped off the face of the earth".

He said: "Anybody who recognises Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury, [while] any [Islamic leader] who recognises the Zionist regime means he is acknowledging the surrender and defeat of the Islamic world." He was addressing a conference titled The World Without Zionism.

Not much room for mis-interpretation, he may have just been sabre rattling and playing to the crowd but if he mean it or not, he did say it.

On nukes as Kit Says, making dirty bombs and low yield is relatively easy if you have the materials which Iran have, just look at North Korea, as soon as a nation gets nukes they basically get a free hand to do what they want since everyone is to scared to stand up to them.

Personally I dont care about Israel or understand why we ( end the US ) support them, but that dont change the fact Iran is the aggressor and Iran with nukes would be a serious threat to the whole region.

[[KMA]Avenger]

You're right. gone slightly of topic...




Back on topic:S&P (S&P being 1 of the same credit agencies that gave AAA status to the junk sold by Goldman and JPM-bought up by so many Govts, banks, pension funds and others) officially downgrades Greece credit rating to ‘selective default’

http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecch ... t-sp-says/


http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2012/0 ... ult-86881/

[[KMA]Avenger]

Greece's exit from the Eurozone and single currency is just a matter of time now, and not to long to wait.
The bank runs have started in Greece, Greeks have up until yesterday withdrawn upwards of 1 billion Euros from their accounts and closed them.

Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland and many other EU members are also in BIG trouble, and will no doubt follow Greece's example IF Greece leaves, brings back the Drachma, devalues and then starts growing economically again.

Germany has put in place a fund to help it's banks in anticipation of a collapse of the EU. Germany is playing all sides against the middle, they are not stupid they know what's coming.


All i can hope at this point is the collapse doesn't drag the UK down further. 1 thing is for sure, any growth in the UK will be negligible (if there is any kind of growth at all) if we (i say WE because the Govt is so inept "THEY" won't/can't do it) do not bring back our industries and open the trade doors the EU closed.


This is just 1 article, there are so many now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... lapse.html

Edit, the rot of debt is spreading: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/nationali ... s-bank-run

http://www.infowars.com/we-are-watching ... -our-eyes/