Personal Insults, Threats and Collusion

[GhostyGoo]

I appreciate, in advance, the help offered here. This is by no means a simple or straightforward complaint but it is a very important one, i feel, because i have been made to feel physically nervous by what has happened to me today.

The problem began Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:06 am when Empy sent me a message regarding, alledgedly, spam.

I am going to try to be as concise as possible but, quite frankly and honestly, my thoughts are still a little woozy thanks to how i've been treated. In short, i'm simply astounded in a very bad way.

Here is the full private conversation i had with Empy:

Code: Select all

[quote="Empy"][quote="GhostyGoo"][quote="Empy"][quote="GhostyGoo"][quote="Empy"][quote="GhostyGoo"][quote="Empy"][quote="GhostyGoo"][spoiler][quote="Empy"][url=https://talk.gatewa.rs/viewtopic.php?p=2460455#p2460455]Subject: Main tournment[/url]

[quote="GhostyGoo"][quote="Gandy 181"]Well we have an ascended one 

why not a main tournment 

might be fun and make things a laugh round hear[/quote]

LOL!

I'm very sorry but i cannot sit and read this and remain both silent and in good conscience. Are we to have a Tournament in Main server so you can ask for the sacking of more admins when things go a bit wrong?[/quote][b][color=#008000]Please do not make off-topic posts flaming other members that do not contribute to the discussion.

~Empy[/color][/b]

[quote="Forum Guidelines"]Section 4: Spam
b. Replies
Replies will be considered spam if they do not contribute to the discussion of the topic, or derail the topic from the intended purpose as defined in the opening post. This may include multiple replies that contain nothing more than emoticons or small words such as ‘lol’. While it is appropriate to indicate something is amusing, drowning out a whole thread with such posts makes it hard to follow for all users.

Note:
Replying to the official post of a Moderator in a topic is spam. Discussing the action that the Moderator has taken belongs in the correct sections of the forum, or in private messages.

Consequence:
A polite note from a moderator will be personally issued requesting the user cut down the amount of irrelevant posts. Repeat offenders will be given one warning point.[/quote][/quote][/spoiler]

I'm not sure it is off topic but it is certainly worth testing as such. For clarity, am i being warned for this please?
-Goo™[/quote]A verbal warning was added to your user notes, and if I am remembering correctly 3 are required in a 1 month period before a Board Warning is issued. That is just in the case of rule 4.a. though.[/quote]

Right, well, for clarification on my part i was asking if the inclusion of a tournament on main server would be in order to constitute a further thread regards the sacking of admins/devs.

I feel this was a valid question and in no way meant to be inflamatory. No one was inflamed by what i asked (the litmus test for flames) and the topic continued as it should (the litmus test for derailment) so therefore i would suggest that for the above reasons this does not warrant a black mark on my account.

Would you be willing to keep the post removed but redact the warning?
This would, of course, be between moderation staff and myself and also greatly respected/appreciated.

-Goo™[/quote]Your intention was clearly to ridicule Gandy for asking SoL to be removed as an Ascension Admin in the other thread, and contributed nothing besides that.

So no, sorry, I wouldn't be willing to remove the mark.[/quote]

It had nothing to do with ridicule, it was a valid question in a valid topic. The topic remained topical and polite. Your observations are misplaced.

I am fully aware of why you chose to let that post sit despite reading it hours ago. I wish this conversation had ended on a lighter note.

You will do what you feel you must.

-Goo™[/quote]I removed it when I read it, I didn't let it sit.[/quote]

Everyone is entitled to a belief, it is my belief you did not. This is not disrespectful. I simply feel that there are several issues here which are being overlooked.

[color=#BF0000]1. Replies will be considered spam if they do not contribute to the discussion of the topic, or derail the topic from the intended purpose as defined in the opening post.[/color]

My comment did contribute to the topic, i asked a simple question i asked politely i did not intend to "flame". If i flamed then why hasn't the entire thread regarding Sol's sacking been removed? Hmm?

The topic was Main Tournament, i asked if the reason for the suggestion was so that the poster could make further allegations towards kingdom games staff. Again, considering the poster's conduct, deductive reason and logic; valid.

Now to the punishment (which i hope is remaining without prejudice to this private conversation)...

[color=#BF0000]A polite note from a moderator will be personally issued requesting the user cut down the amount of irrelevant posts. Repeat offenders will be given one warning point.[/color]

I asked you to please remove the warning point for a good reason. A reason you seemingly have failed to notice. I'm sure you are noticing now that i have put things in context for you. When have i repeatedly spammed a topic? If i am to admit (which i'm not) spamming i have only done it once.

Now, once again politely, would you please agree to remove the warning from my account and i will agree that the thread looks better wihtout my (apparently dubious) question and we can both move on?

Respectfully,
-Goo™[/quote]You brought up an issue/situation that had nothing to do with suggesting a main tournament to ridicule him for doing something you clearly found distasteful. The post was made to start/continue an argument with him about it, which is the definition of flaming. Flaming someone to start an argument about him wanting SoL removed as an Admin because of something he did does not pertain to a tournament on the main forums.

The only thing you've put into context for me and made me realize is that you're an insufferable ass, which had no bearing on me reading your post, seeing that it broke the rules, and taking action as outlined by the rules.[/quote]

(apologies for the code switch, i cannot post more than 10 embedded quotes).

----:SEPARATE PM:----

The only thing you've put into context for me and made me realize is that you're an insufferable ass, which had no bearing on me reading your post, seeing that it broke the rules, and taking action as outlined by the rules.

Excuse me?

I feel that you have degraded this conversation to the point where it is unwise of me to continue discussing matters with you. I will not be insulted in this way.

I'm glad we could come to an agreement then.

Unless you have any further issues you wish to discuss regarding my conduct i would politely request that you cease correspondence. This request, of course, has no prejudice whatsoever to any possible future allegations.

In layperons' terms i do not wish to speak to you further on this matter.

Might've just been easier to stop replying, as you were the one who PM'd me about it. Either way, gladly.

After this i immediately gave all the evidence to SuperSaiyan and Cersei Lannister. I truly did not want to take this public because of my huge respect for the game, its forum and, ultimately, its Creator.

SuperSaiyan said he would look into the matter and i waited four days with no reply. I waited again out of respect for the process and the system - i know folk are busy with their actual jobs and suchlike. I still have heard nothing.

Then today i received this:

Subject: Remove the power abusing admin SOL

Andy how about u *no*

And Added sol

Off what? Can you be more specific? I'm not sure this will quite constitute a warning. For the good of humankind, please elaborate.

Verbal Warning for Spam. Attempting to provoke another user to break further rules is not smart.

And, once again, i began a polite conversation with the member of staff who issued the warning as prescribed in the forum guidlines. This is how the conversation progressed.

Subject: Remove the power abusing admin SOL

Andy how about u *no*

And Added sol

Off what? Can you be more specific? I'm not sure this will quite constitute a warning. For the good of humankind, please elaborate.

Verbal Warning for Spam. Attempting to provoke another user to break further rules is not smart.

How could i have known he was spamming and why has it taken 4 days to issue a warning?

Your post was spamming in that you were attempting to get another user warned for posting further profanity than he had, which adds nothing to the actual discussion.

----:SEPARATE PM:----

Subject: Remove the power abusing admin SOL

Andy how about u *no*

And Added sol

Off what? Can you be more specific? I'm not sure this will quite constitute a warning. For the good of humankind, please elaborate.

Verbal Warning for Spam. Attempting to provoke another user to break further rules is not smart.

How could i have known he was spamming and why has it taken 4 days to issue a warning?

Your post was spamming in that you were attempting to get another user warned for posting further profanity than he had, which adds nothing to the actual discussion.

No. You have completely misunderstood me. I can see where you've been mistaken though. I was asking him to clarify if he was warning me or not. Not asking him to get himself a warning. I can see how it is confusing, and i agree with you removing it/pointing it out.

Can you tell me why i've received a verbal warning please. If you don't mind i'd appreciate the rule which permits you to warn me.

Thanks in advance,
Goo™

----:SEPARATE PM:----

You are receiving a verbal warning for spam, not a board warning.

The consequence clrealy states "polite note". The board does not stipulate how many polite notes constitute a warning.

These are your words, not mine.

----:SEPARATE PM:----

You were previously warned for spam, if you would rather, I can give you a board warning instead of a verbal warning as it is clear you have not learned that it is against the rules and according to your own statement, you know exactly what spamming is.

Am i now being threatened? Interesting. I have everything you've said in my inbox. I delete nothing. How have i not learned? I've agreed that your decision was correct, i am questioning the punishment. How on earth are you to expect people to understand things that you do not even understand yourself?

As i have already stated: The consequence, in your own words, says "polite note". It makes no mention of warnings in any other case than repeat offenses.

Threatening behaviour is also in the rules!

----:SEPARATE PM:---- it was at this point that i realised what was happening and this point that i became genuinely, physically, upset As such i responded thus.

I have informed you of why you received it. You are a repeat offender. I was being lenient and giving you only a verbal, however you have argued that I am not following the rules exactly, which would state that I give you a board warning which I can do if you wish to argue the fact that I am not following the rules exactly.

I aren't a repeat offender. I have one "verbal warning" for spam which also should have been a "polite note". Then i have this other "verbal warning" from you which also, since the first one is in dispute which you know full well, should be a "polite note". You are not being lenient, it is my belief that you are trying to pre-empt my public dispute of Empy's warning by taking fully FOUR DAYS to find a completely ridiculous example of spam, which i have told you that, although i agree with your decision, i believe is a misunderstanding.

I'm going to take this directly to the Ombudsman because, in the space of four days, i have been wrongly accused twice, verbally insulted once, threatened once and treated, on the whole with absolute contempt.

I find it quite disgusting.

Feel free to not reply to this message, i would prefer not to hear from you unless you have further moderation business to relay to me. Of course, you are also fully at your liberty to completely ignore my reasonable request as your colleague did and resort to verbal insults, as your colleague did.

Frankly, i am quite sick of being polite with you people - there is no wonder your jobs are tough and you complain all the time when you treat people like this. I have lost all sympathy with you.

I know the various issues i'm having with this treatment of me are clear in the replies and such but i would just like, if i may, to point out succinctly why i feel unfairly treated and why i have posted all these issues in one thread.

Firstlty i don't accept that either example is actually spam but i do clearly (from my replies) respect Moderation as a constantly evolving process through feedback. What i do not agree with is the clear exploitation of the interpretation of the consequences. I understand "polite note" to mean exactly that verbatim; as a healthy user how else am i supposed to interpret it? I should never be expected to read between the lines as this is a can of worms i am quite sure that any sensible Moderator would certainly advise against.

My next issue is that if one follows the forum guidelines to try to evolve this matter you can clearly see what happens. You are personally insulted. There are forum rules about personal insults and now, in Britain, there are actual LAWS against it. Again, a can of worms i am sure that Kingdom Games LTD does not want to open. Especially since statute trumps indemnity in most case studies.

Of course i have no proof of the collusion but i am far from a fool and my often remarked upon process of deduction, reason and logic tell me that after 4 days of scrutiny a Moderator finally found another "trespass" in the form of the post earning me the second "warning". Thus pre-empting this course of action which i have been reduced to due to inaction on behalf of staff.

Next i am clearly being threatened by Moderation through a completely preposterous and untenable increase in my warning status. I truly do not know which is the worst treatment here. As i've stated before it has made me physically shaky and quite nauseous.

Holistically this is bullying. At first it was a simple misunderstanding but due to the staff being unable to act reasonably even in the face of polite discourse, it has escalated to bullying.

Let me please finish with a quote from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying

Cyberbullying can be as simple as continuing to send e-mail to someone who has said they want no further contact with the sender, but it may also include threats, sexual remarks, pejorative labels (i.e., hate speech), ganging up on victims by making them the subject of ridicule in forums, and posting false statements as fact aimed at humiliation.

I have emboldened the relevant parts.

Thank-you for your help in this matter,
Sincerely,
-Goo™

[Empy]

A verbal warning is a polite note, it is a note to please stop spamming before you are issued a Board Warning.

Also I'm 95% sure that BMMJ knew nothing about our previous interaction. There was not a thread made about it in the Supermod or Moderator Forums, and while I can't 100% remember every conversation I have on MSN I'm pretty positive I never talked to him about it... So like I said I'm reasonably sure he had no knowledge of our interaction. If he did it wasn't through conversation with me.

There are forum rules about personal insults and now, in Britain, there are actual LAWS against it. Again, a can of worms i am sure that Kingdom Games LTD does not want to open. Especially since statute trumps indemnity in most case studies.

What was that about threats? You don't like them?

[Juliette]

A very serious matter indeed, and thank you for reporting it, Goo.

I regret having to tell you, however, that this is beyond the purview of the Ombudsman office.
When we continue our ongoing conversation through PM, I can give you a few pointers on how to pursue this properly.



*closed*