descension

[~Phoenix~]

At the end of the day, Forum will heed the comments in here, or he will not

He better bloody not.

Half the people in here want things for their own personal use and frankly dont give a **Filtered** what happens to other people...

[Hitokiri]

I would like to post the opinion that when you get descended that you loss one Level of ascension, so a 6 would go back to 5, 5 back to 4, ETC... To get descended and lose all of your ascensions does not seem right to me.

Some people have compared this to the TV Show where you lose all of your power, but in the TV show you only ascend once and gain all the power. Most people have ascended to both play and gain the bonuses that it has awarded. And once you choose to ascend then you lose your special Race bonus and start to gain a bonus on all the stats. That is the advantage of Ascending and the curse of ascending; as once you start you pretty much have to go for the 6 Ascensions in order for it to be of the most benefit to you. Also you lose your races special Tech which to me was no big deal as the Gou'ald Tech is a waste anyways.

I just think that if a person who has ascended 6 times gets descended once and loses all that he worked for, that person will most likely leave the game.

And the main account should not lose it weapons or trained soldiers unless it is prior to regular account then the ascended weapons should be replaced with the regular weapons as they would lose the Ascended technology.

As for the time limits between getting descended, they should remain as Forum has suggested. That way, people can try to work out there differences and not lose everything in a day. Descend someone should be as hard as possible and there should be repercussions to the person that Does descend someone, that person should also be put on a forced PPT where they cannot opt out of it. As the power required to Descend a person is a drain on them as well.


Well that is my humble opinion.

*claps*
this is exactly what I want to see. I hadn't thought about a forced ppt for the person that wins the 1v1 battle, but I like it.

Which brings me to another thought (pardon me if it has been discussed and decided prior to this), but what about personal constitutions of 100 or above? Are they immune to descension? I don't think it should ever be possible to effectively be "immune" to descention, maybe instead of having the constitution give you a straight 1% reduction in damage, create a function that asymptotically approaches 100 so that full immunity can never be achieved (although one might get absurdly close).

[Bushranger17]

I do admit I haven't read through all the forum since I just came to it here but I do like Duke Leto II's idea the best of all the ones i have seen.

[Nostradamus]

Then you should read carefully all the thread .... this is one if not the most important update to the game and posting you opinion after reading a few pages or jumping right to the end it's not helping. The reason we are all here is to fine tune the descension process so you have to read all the opinions before ......... where is Mojo and his low tolerance

To sum it up I think we should have a few polls:

1. The permanent effect of descension on the main account:
- you only stay 1 month without bonuses
- you lose 1 level of ascension (5% or 1%) but your main account does not goes into an empty shell
- you lose 1 level of ascension (5% or 1%) and your main account will lose everything except the army (you lose UP, techs, covert levels and weapons)
- you lose ALL

2. Vacation mode
- stays how it is now
- if you enter vac mode on ascended server you get placed on vac mode on main
- if you enter vac mode on ascended server you lose all ascended bonuses on main

Ascended server was designed to help new players catch the big ones; it was designed that the ascended player would of been left with nothing of his old account and practicly start again; it was designed to comsume as many resources from top players to limit the gap between them and the rest ..... THIS ARE ALL FACTS. But admin didn't saw what was coming, he's not perfect. With descension on and if you lose at least 1 level when you are descended and players at LG+1 will want to ascend again in order to protect themselfs .... 1% is far less traumatic then 5% and with the APP gained they could get a better protection against descension ..... most of them have a pretty big UP and they will be forced to leave behind mil of UU ...... and I'm pretty sure this will help others catch on them and this was the intention right from the start.

[Shooting Star]

In defense of my position on why I think that there should be a permanent loss of one level of ascension when you get descended, if there is no permanent loss, then it makes those of who played both servers equally and as they were intended look like jackasses. I took a lot of crap and a lot of beatings from some of the quick ascendees while I was amassing big ascensions and garnering my power slowly but surely in ascension. Now that I am light years ahead of 99% of the server, you are going to tell me that all my hard work went for naught and that descendees keep their accounts intact and get the ascended equivalent of a slap on the wrist for not playing ascension? I am sorry but that does not cut it. "Sorry Mojo but you played ascension too well so we are going to have to dumb it down for the commonfolk." I suffered through TOO many enhancements that benefitted the quick ascendees because, through my many discussions with Admin about descension, I was SOOOOO looking forward to what I thought descension was GOING to be. What you see here is a RADICAL departure from what was discussed previously. But since I seem to beating my head against a brick wall with this, I am amending my suggestion:

I am now agreeing with the loss of all ascended bonuses in main for one month if you get descended, plus the loss of one level of ascension after the one month is up. You still get to keep all of your weapons (if you are a Prior, you get the equivalent amount of the equivalent non-ascended weapons), all your troops, your MS, and all technologies appropriate for an ascended being of your level (so some ascended technologies will lose a level). I think that this is the best compromise of all the positions out there. And I also think that there should be a loss in the ascension server. I think that the victor of the descension battle should get 1-2% of the worshipping planets of the loser. Not only would this make descension more of a lose-lose proposition for the loser (which it should be to live up to the high-risk/high-reward server that it was supposed to be), but it would also offer a measure of protection to the lower players from the higher players. If players know that they are going to get some planets from the other player if they win, they may decide that it is only worth it to try to descend players with a goodly number of planets, thus protecting the new ascendees.

[Goretrek]

Have to say I disagree on the 'catching the big players' statement. I think you'll find it was introduced to give the big players something more than just sitting at the top ranks with nothing more to achieve in the game.

@ Wolf369 - With regards to your bold, highlighted text, can you confirm something please. Define the word PLAY. ? I spend my DMU and my lifeforce at least 3 times a day <-- is that PLAY'ing?

I PLAY the ascended server, I am LG+1, do I stand a hells chance if one of the 'big guns' decides to have some fun with my ascended account... its a simple answer is.... No.

They could descend me on the day of release, I immediately lose all bonuses to main for 30 days and in 30 days time they can do exactly the same again. Effectively keeping me at 0 bonuses indefinately, even if I do manage to reascend again. Why bother waiting 30 days, it makes no difference, I'm without bonuses for 30 days anyway might as well descend me totally in one day and get it over with. See the point?

I want to know how hard is it going to be to descend someone? How many turns on average, 10 x 1 att, 500 x 1 att? It has a massive bearing on what I'd consider acceptable. If someone can descend a person and recoup those turns etc in 1 day thats a lot different to having to wait 2 weeks/a month to recoup those turns.

Therefore people should be looking at this update with an objective viewpoint imagining THEY are the ones on the receiving end of the descension.... most are too preoccupied rubbing their hands at the prospect of finally being able to carry out their threats and descend their enemies.

No way should your main account be turned into a shell account, why would you lose spy levels in main because your ascended being gets attacked, what has that got to do with anything.

At the very most IF the main account is to be affected permanently it should lose those abilities relevant to the ascension lost and nothing more. If you descend someone completely then they lose the weapons and everything gained from ascending and be returned to your original race (bonuses included).

As the saying goes be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

[Elder God Mulletman]

i agree with u on this one decention is just giving the big players more power. its like giving ur worst enemy a gun. he gets to say if u live ot die

[The Oncoming Storm]

I agree with the point that most players are thinking of decending others and not about being decended themselves.

And with that in mind this really becomes a difficult question. But my first suggestion (that has been mentioned many times in this thread) is to sort out the problem of vacation before any update comes in, because if the update comes in first you will see a lot of players hitting that button and just not playing again, because the risk of loss to their main account is too great.

Any opinion as to loss of ascended levels or techs can only really be formed once we know how hard it will be to decend someone. If it is incredably hard even for the top players, then I will agree with the loss of one ascended level. But if it turns out to be fairly easy, and if a market comes in to allow players to buy thousands of turns, then I will disagree because it will be unfair on 90% of the players.

[Shooting Star]

1.) I can understand everyone's stance on why they would not want to see permanent losses to their main accounts for being descended, because it would be harmful to the 90% of the server who just USE the ascended server for bonuses in main, and don't PLAY the ascended server. I complained about EVERY enhancement that benefitted the quick ascendees and I offered suggestions on how the enhancements might be modified somewhat to not be skewed towards one group of players. My requests, while heard, were categorically denied. So now I am hoping that everyone else's complaints, while being heard, will be categorically denied.

2.) After diligently playing the ascended server and becoming one of the most powerful people on the ascension server through diligence and patience and at great personal cost to my main account, my diligence and patience and sacrifice are about to pay off. This is the one update that should benefit those of us with the foresight to carefully plan our ascensions and not rush them, because we had to suffer the ignominy of watching all of our quick ascendees gaining great power in main and lording it over us for the longest time. This is our crowning moment, our sweet revenge. YOu all had your advantage for the longest time and many of you pressed it too. Now that the pendulum has swung in our favor, we demand the same chance to press our advantage and make ourselves more powerful in main by descending some of the people who lorded it over us. If there are not permanent losses in main for descension, then all of us who worked hard in ascension to be able to descend people and make them lose power (not just for a month but permanently) were just wasting our time and we should have quick ascended with the rest when there was no transfer cost for UU (one of the first enhancements to benefit the quick ascendees BTW).

3.) Forum, I am sorry, but in order for EVERYONE to make an informed decision about this enhancement, I am afraid that you are going to have to spell out EXACTLY how your descension works, how easy or difficult it is going to be to descend someone, etc. There is far too much speculation going on right now as to how it is going to work and how easy/hard it will be.

4.) Vacation modes need to be linked between the servers somehow before any of these updates are implemented. Also, I recommend fixing all bugs/cheats in the game (*cough* the influence power bug *cough* The O-Neill *cough*) before such an update is implemented.

5.) Forum, any type of feedback you would like to give us, many of us would LOVE to hear. Your absence from this forum for the last 15 pages has been noticeable. Your input/thought processes on why you chose this particular path for descension rather than the permanent losses would be greatly appreciated.

[~Phoenix~]

I dont care if everyone wants to los 1 ascended leveleach descenson, it a stupid idea.

We werent told until we actually ascended that there would be any type of descension.. once again I dont give a **Filtered** what people say I never heard about it til ages...

So no permanent losses should ever be put in. And as far as I can see from admin's post they wont ever be put in.....

[GhostyGoo]

I've browsed briefly over the thread again and in honesty we are all still pretty much making the same points we were making 15 pages ago rofl. That said, hammering a point home is never really a bad thing... is it?

Just to indulge myself i'm going to state what i thought descension would involve. I've looked in the moderator forum for my exact post and can't find the darn thing which is a pity as it was a good post.

Basically I hoped for another server, i know the work involved but at the same time, considering what Forum has come up with so far, the genius of the other servers, i feel he is selling himself somewhat short here and the true potential is not being realised.

The server would be similar to the one in Green Dragon (if anyone has played that game), where once you are defeated to 0 HP (dead) you are cast into the realm of "shade". I honestly thought this was going to be the blueprint for a "fallen" server. Once descended, you main account would be penalised, and your ascended acount somehow frozen while you battled to regain your ascension within the descended "fallen" server. Fallen accounts would have different powers and suchlike, a hole new realm to explore and also, the choice would be a) i hate being descended, i need to get resurrected asap or b) oooh, this fallen idea is nice, i think i could rule this dark and forboding realm and not bother about being ascended again.

With time, who knows, you could (in some similar way to g n r) build up a mass of power in the fallen server so that main is not so connected to your ascended account. It would provide you with a different scope and more so one on one battles as people would find themselves facing eachother on 3 planes of existence.

Anyhoo, that was my dream. Shame this poor excuse is going ahead. Makes me wonder why i've had my head up where the sun don't shine for the past 19 months or so. Ah well. Time spent is never garaunteed to be repaid in kind.

2.) After diligently playing the ascended server and becoming one of the most powerful people on the ascension server through diligence and patience and at great personal cost to my main account, my diligence and patience and sacrifice are about to pay off. This is the one update that should benefit those of us with the foresight to carefully plan our ascensions and not rush them, because we had to suffer the ignominy of watching all of our quick ascendees gaining great power in main and lording it over us for the longest time. This is our crowning moment, our sweet revenge. YOu all had your advantage for the longest time and many of you pressed it too. Now that the pendulum has swung in our favor, we demand the same chance to press our advantage and make ourselves more powerful in main by descending some of the people who lorded it over us. If there are not permanent losses in main for descension, then all of us who worked hard in ascension to be able to descend people and make them lose power (not just for a month but permanently) were just wasting our time and we should have quick ascended with the rest when there was no transfer cost for UU (one of the first enhancements to benefit the quick ascendees BTW).

Absolutely, i could not have put it better myself. This proposed version of descension (as far as i can see) is nothing more than a final slap in the face to good honest players, those of us who pushed and pushed for ascension and those of us who play it with a passion. I want those weak minded sons of doodah who quick ascended to be easy pickings and then punished on main tremendously. Ascension is not a fast track to power in main, it is supposed to be a superlative server for superlative players. Those titles in main (prior, living god etc etc) mean nothing more now than a tagline for "I am power and I dont even play ascension". The amount of people who i hit out at in ascension who say to me "Threaten me all you want I don't care about my ascended account" sickens me. Ascended players deserve respect, Priors, Living Gods, Incarnates, those words should mean something again once descension is released. People should fear for their bonuses, because they were too short sighted to realise they were trading power for a missed chance, a chance that could have been great, but without playing two realities side by side in equal consideration, they should now be singled out for the hopeless ruffage they are. They should be weeded out of the ascended server and blasted back to the depths of main, where they belong.

3.) Forum, I am sorry, but in order for EVERYONE to make an informed decision about this enhancement, I am afraid that you are going to have to spell out EXACTLY how your descension works, how easy or difficult it is going to be to descend someone, etc. There is far too much speculation going on right now as to how it is going to work and how easy/hard it will be.

Lastly, thanks for pointing this out because you have allowed me to illustrate something important. About a month ago i lashed out at Forum in a most severe way, regards how updates were released. Before i did this, updates were released and then dealt with after the damage done. Of course, we all hope for clean bug free and fair updates which we instantly enjoy, but more often than not, this is not the case. Let's just remember that before i lashed out at forum, we were not even given chance to discuss them properly.

I'd like to thank forum for improving the way updates are released, if it was always this way many grey areas of play (for instance the insanity which was "spy levels for donations") would not have occured.

And thanks Shooting Star, for helping me to point this out.

I just hope that the right people are heard in this and that ascension once again becomes something that exceptional players excel at and hopeless "hangers on" are descended and punished accordingly for their lack of vision.

-Goo

[~Phoenix~]

Funnily enough.. i was thinking about a fallen server quite a while ago.. months now.. like an Anubis style server

[GhostyGoo]

Funnily enough.. i was thinking about a fallen server quite a while ago.. months now.. like an Anubis style server

Hello there old friend I hope you are well.

It's on the forum somewhere, i just can't find it though. I outlined all sorts of things, like new battles and a way to collect battle points or exp in order to be able to resurrect yourself should you wish to.

EDIT: I just found a shinning example of what i am saying in my "make ascension an elite server again" post. I just found a high ranking "Messiah" in main server, logged into ascension and searched for him/her in the ascended rankings. I found it and guess what? This "Messiah" is ranked in the 1000s and has only got 291 fleets. Quite pathetic really and certainly not someone who i would be calling a Messiah.

[~Phoenix~]

Sounds alot of fun Unlike ascended server...


THE FLAW WITH ASCENSION/DESCENSION

Is that 6 or so months ago, cant remember, but when ascension first became introduced.. the most powerfull people of that time ascended right away..they played for ages.

But now, you get more LF for your ascension points, and more ascension points, its easy to get now what i could 5 or 6months ago, probly all I had then in a few days now, so all these new people ascending have instantly passed me.. I ask, why should I be descended for ascending first? Thats what I want to know.... we didnt even know of descension back then.. not until AFTER we ascended... didnt even have main bonuses either so I dont want to see any more crap about "Ascension is reward for main stuff" or crap like that.

Descension is unfair to the people who very first ascended.. regardless..

[GhostyGoo]

I agree with what you are saying fundamentally Phoenix, but i don't know that you have anything to worry about. The way i see it, at least from reading the discussion so far, you won't have anything to worry about? As long as your ascended being has good stats, which it should have because you've been there for ages like me and played hard, like me. The only thing that i don't agree with in your post is that we didn't know about descension? We always knew it would come eventually. Always.

Hopefully, this is how it will be:

2 types of players, 3 different aspects:

One type of player who has concentrated on both servers with equal consideration, this player will have good personal stats and also good realm stats, and will be very hard to descend.

Another type of player who has only ascended to achieved power in main server, stronger weapons etc. This player will not have concentrated on building their ascended realm and so will either have entirely weak personal stats and be descended easily and often OR they will have concentrated on their power ups and be difficult to descend but easy to farm because they have pitiful realms.

Either way, type "b" player should be very harshly penalised in main server, for not playing the game as it was intended?