Split from 'Go Yankees'

[Gatedialer]

Well since nothing can be born Evil, as thats just stupid, It can't happen and the problem won't arise.

That said, disorders can develop, like Sociopaths which medically can't tell right from wrong. For them, the best treatment is at a Mental care facility.

Oh and if complete immortality happens, the world will be screwed. Although if you can't kill anyone at all, then what the hell do you do to fight? Thats why discussing immortality is just complete stupid, as its almost probably impossible to do.

[Come_Forth]

I don't believe you have ever taken any classes.
I'd like to hear where you went to school if you got your views from history classes.
you really sound like not the brightest

CrimsonFrost I am not going to be insulted in an online thread. Your posts are full of attacks on my education level. I am not going to cite every damn thing I say since most is opinion and I am not asking you to go research no duh stuff. I am not stupid and will not be treated as such. Israel has no right to the land even when they did occupy it they stole it from the people who lived there (that is in the Bible ). It is the same thing in the United States, we stole our land from whoever owned it.

Well since nothing can be born Evil, as thats just stupid, It can't happen and the problem won't arise.

The Bible says that we are born evil

@Xeno of course when having sex birth control should be used. If people used birth control most of the problems in Africa could be avoided. We should give out birth control not tell them not to have sex since that never works.

[The Xeno]

The Bible says that we are born evil

Not quite... depends upon which denomination you ascribe.
There is quite a difference (for example) between an orthodox view of a wounded nature, and some of the more radical Calvinist stances.

Xeno of course when having sex birth control should be used. If people used birth control most of the problems in Africa could be avoided. We should give out birth control not tell them not to have sex since that never works.

And who will be paying for all that birth control, just so the Africans can waste their days doing what over a third* of our teenagers already do in place of recreation and work? You don't get a free ride on this just because of the pill and latex.
There are still consequences when trying to find a 'loophole' around other consequences, and nothing is 100% 'safe'.

Surely are better things for humans to do than spend their time drinking, smoking, and frolicking with members of the opposite/same sex: Certainly ones with less negative impact.

---------

Abstinence as a baseline. Otherwise it's like allowing crime, and simply telling the thief to be sure not to shoot anyone who gets in the way.

*Not actual statistic.
Wild guesstimate, I'll look it up and replace it with correct fig later.

It is the same thing in the United States, we stole our land from whoever owned it.

It is the same thing for the entirety of humanity. Indeed, if we follow evolution, I shouldn't think mankind would have a 'right' to land at all.
Do we?

[Come_Forth]

]Not quite... depends upon which denomination you ascribe.
There is quite a difference (for example) between an orthodox view of a wounded nature, and some of the more radical Calvinist stances.

"There are none righteous no not one."
Calvinists say that we are totally depraved. Every Christian that I know says that man is wicked at heart that is why we need God, corrupted human nature etc born into sin.

[The Xeno]

Every Christian that I know says that man is wicked at heart that is why we need God, corrupted human nature etc born into sin.

Correct... although even then 'wicked' ill-fits.
I was disagreeing with,
"The Bible says that we are born evil"
... As there is a difference between being born evil, and being born into sin.
Man is not depraved in nature, but is certainly one-to-many steps removed from theosis.

[CrimsonFrost]

CrimsonFrost I am not going to be insulted in an online thread. Your posts are full of attacks on my education level. I am not going to cite every damn thing I say since most is opinion and I am not asking you to go research no duh stuff. I am not stupid and will not be treated as such. Israel has no right to the land even when they did occupy it they stole it from the people who lived there (that is in the Bible ). It is the same thing in the United States, we stole our land from whoever owned it.

Just as before, you cherry picked out of my entire post to twist things to your perspective. Way to ignore about 3 pages of posting. May I also point out how often Atheism tends to strike a relationship with Communism and Socialism, other natural enemies of the United States. How about that? Noam Chomsky, heh. At least you made one point very clear on your thoughts:

"I AM NOT GOING TO CITE BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON OPINION." Well, well, that doesn't sound like the typical academic response of an avowed, intelligent atheist that has obviously committed some things to heart. I mean, it's only a viewpoint of life that has a profound impact on our entire lives. Why put any thought or research into it? It's obvious I have. Btw, as for that "land stealing" by Israel, yet again, I say go read your history books. That land was granted to Israel by the United Nations in 1947 because the Jews had already gotten together from the entire world after being ravaged by psychpaths like Hitler. The "creation of Israel" by the UN was almost a formality more then anything else. Just as a reminder, the UN is a group that is composed of the ENTIRE WORLD. That does not consitute "Israel stealing land." Get over your Zionist conspiracy crap. I have the time and patience to research my thoughts, and don't just talk out of my butt because what I'm saying sounds cool. If your an atheist, fine. But actually take the time to research into it and come to an informed decision instead of just cherry picking a few random facts while quoting some random anti-Christian website. It's just .. goofy.

Well since nothing can be born Evil, as thats just stupid, It can't happen and the problem won't arise.

I'm not sure, but I don't think the Judeo-Christian Bible says that people are evil. I think that people are born neutral, and as they experience the world and people their mindset shifts into doing things that are considered immoral. But this is mostly conjecture on my part.

@Xeno of course when having sex birth control should be used. If people used birth control most of the problems in Africa could be avoided. We should give out birth control not tell them not to have sex since that never works.

I'd have to disagree on that note.. I think condom usage would be a much better idea, because STD's such as AID's are what is really ravaging Africa more then just the children themselves. (Although I think that is what you were thinking when writing that in the first place.) Of course I think not having sex at all is better, but that is much harder to advocate.

"There are none righteous no not one."
Calvinists say that we are totally depraved. Every Christian that I know says that man is wicked at heart that is why we need God, corrupted human nature etc born into sin.

Again, a nice cherry picked sentence. The context you are using in your sentence is self-defeating as the Bible has more then once declared certain men righteous:

his is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. (Gen 6:9)

Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. (Mat 1:19)

Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. (Luke 2:25)

And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. (Mat 23:35)

and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard) (2 Pet 2:7,8)

Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? (James 2:21)

As we can see, you are clearly taking what was said out of context. As this interesting website pointed out;

"According to these Scriptures, Noah, Joseph, Simeon, Abel, Zechariah, Lot and Abraham are all clearly cited as being righteous. If we had no other Scriptures except any one of these we should know something is terribly wrong with the eternal security idea that there are none that are righteous and that we are all sinners, even Christians. "

A better understanding of the context that was truly meant is as I quote,

" What did Paul mean by "there is none righteous" in Romans 3:10?

In Romans 3:10 we read: as it is written, ""THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;" If you continue to read the context of what is being said Paul is addressing being justified by faith in Christ compared to being justified by the works of the Law. Read Romans 3:19-31 and see that Paul is addressing that no one is perfect or righteous in the sense of them being without sin, and that we all fall short to God's glory. Paul would not be saying anyone was not "righteous" in the sense of people living godly lives and being called "righteous." Consider what Paul said of himself: "4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith." (Philippians 3:4-9) Paul said of himself that he was concerning the Law "blameless." What does Paul mean by that? Paul was stating that he was living a life that was in accord with the Laws of God, not that he was without sin. So in context and knowing a bit about the life of Paul we know that Romans 3:10 is not proving that man is totally depraved as what Calvinism attempts to teach. " ( http://www.afcministry.com/Calvinism_none_righteous.htm )

I won't re-invent the wheel, here is a quite lengthy response to the whole "righteous" question.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/nonerighteous.htm

And with that I bid you all goodnight

[Londo Mollari]

if we are wicked at heart, born into sin etc. Yet are made in Gods image, does that not imply that God has evil at His heart?

Using condoms etc would not tottally solve the problem in Africa, it would help releave it though. The problem will still remain due to many factors such as prostitution and rape etc.

Oh and if complete immortality happens, the world will be screwed. Although if you can't kill anyone at all, then what the hell do you do to fight? Thats why discussing immortality is just complete stupid, as its almost probably impossible to do.

yes it would have very important consequences for humanity as a whole. People would abuse it. But i raise this point: if every human is immortal then murder would no longer be possible. That said crime would be almost impossible to combat. It would be hard to arrest someone who cannot die. Prison would no longer work as a 10 year sentence would be absolutely nothing to an immortal.

This raises the question, is humanity as a whole ready or suitable for immortality? That remains to be seen!

Anyway, why should becoming immortal (or very close - say extending the human lifetime into two centuries) be impossible? If we can succesfully replace major organs etc with either bionic or cloned replacements then why should we die?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_transplants

I read a newspaper artical on this recently. During the Cold War scientists in Russia succesfully perfomed head transplants on dogs, resulting in a two headed dog. A double head transplant was performed on two monkeys in the US whos spines where broken and there heads switched. A dogs head was able to survive without its body when wired to a life support machine. I've put this in red until i can find the article

Also note that the brain unlike other organs is not rejected by another body.

[CrimsonFrost]

if we are wicked at heart, born into sin etc. Yet are made in Gods image, does that not imply that God has evil at His heart?

Good points. If I remember correctly as per Genesis, man was perfect. When Adam and Eve ate the apple (After the suggestions of the serpent) at that point they were considered wicked at heart.

Using condoms etc would not tottally solve the problem in Africa, it would help releave it though. The problem will still remain due to many factors such as prostitution and rape etc.

The situation in Africa is pretty sad.. I know people who have been stationed there and experienced things firsthand. (Djitbouti I think is the name of the place.)

yes it would have very important consequences for humanity as a whole. People would abuse it. But i raise this point: if every human is immortal then murder would no longer be possible. That said crime would be almost impossible to combat. It would be hard to arrest someone who cannot die. Prison would no longer work as a 10 year sentence would be absolutely nothing to an immortal.

This raises the question, is humanity as a whole ready or suitable for immortality? That remains to be seen!

Anyway, why should becoming immortal (or very close - say extending the human lifetime into two centuries) be impossible? If we can succesfully replace major organs etc with either bionic or cloned replacements then why should we die?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_transplants

I read a newspaper artical on this recently. During the Cold War scientists in Russia succesfully perfomed head transplants on dogs, resulting in a two headed dog. A double head transplant was performed on two monkeys in the US whos spines where broken and there heads switched. A dogs head was able to survive without its body when wired to a life support machine. I've put this in red until i can find the article

Also note that the brain unlike other organs is not rejected by another body.

I think immortality would be an awful thing to inflict upon mankind.. Not to mention that the entire world would be devestated with overpopulation. Plus the worst part about it all would be that if you made someone angry enough, they could inflict pain upon and torture you for all time. *literally* Now what I think would be an even more interesting concept is people that are immortal in the sense that they cannot die of natural causes, but can still be killed by random circumstance. (Like being shot, stabbed, etc.)