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LiQuiD wrote:the bible has been proven wrong on several points. the age of the earth and evolution stand out.

LiQuiD wrote:sandman perhaps you missed the last 7 pages. the bible has been proven wrong on several points. the age of the earth and evolution stand out. your retort? something about days being longer in the bible and that human definition of time is flawed. an incredibly fragile and false point.

I haven't yet read the part where the bible states "the earth is 10 thousand years" I havnt yet read the part where the bible states "evolution is wrong" . For crying out loud. I have said many times that I believe that evolution is possible. It doesnt to contradict the Bible in anyway. It actually supports the Bible. Are you that thick?

Secondly on the earth age issue. How can we know our "measures" of the earth ages are accurate. How for 100% certain can we say the age of the earth is X Y or Z? We cannot!

In addition, how dare mere humans restrict God to "time". He is outside time. He is the beginning and the end.

To be completely honest, I personally don't know how old the earth is, and I personally don't care.

Evolution assumes creation. (See other thread)


if you cannot believe in christianity without the bible, that shows how weak your faith truly is. you cant believe without a book to tell you every individual thing. a person can carry out a self-less and christian act without ever having read the bible.

christianity is a religion, not a book!


Christianity is way of life. Not a religion. Without God, without Jesus, without the Holy Spirit, without the Bible there is no guidance.

The Bible is more than just a book.

People can carry out a self-less and Christian act without ever reading the Bible, YES, that's a no-brainier. However, God sees the heart of the person. Not just the acts. If we were "saved" and "earned" eternal life through our acts then we all would be stuffed. We are all human. We all sin. It is by grace we are saved, not by our acts. However, this goes on, if we do truely love God we shall try to live by his rules. Thus, doing Christian acts.



i have researched and everything i have found has shown the bible to be a collection of many peoples writings with additions and omissions. it is not perfect and true. you cannot see it as it really is. your religion has blinded you rather than enlighten you. i am ashamed that christians like yourself have degraded yourselves in the name of a false belief.

The creation of the Bible is what is really amazing. God used such as diverse crowd of people so that the Bible could be created. The Bible is inspired by God.


My faith has not blinded me. It has open my eyes. The funny thing is I choose this way, for I know God is stronger than anything.



your steadfast and mistaken determination that the bible is fatual has moved me another step away from christianity. the term fanatic comes to mind and ill never believe in a religion which encourages, no, demands i believe lies. i know what fanatics do. islamic terrorists are fanatics. fanaticism is bad. simple as


You still haven't proven the Bible wrong. Islamics are not the only terrorists. I believe that the government are the biggest terrorists!


The real funny thing is you admitted to believing in lies.




take a look at your faith. take a good look. do some research on wikipedia or other such (more reliable and unbiased). if you approach things honestly and without pre-judging you will see that the bible isnt fact. you will also see that belief in god and christianity doesnt require thinking the bible is fact. the vast majority of sensible christians dont see the bible as an histiorically accurate and true book. yet they are still good christians.


If the Bible isn't a true book, then the whole faith is void.



there. i have officially completed the 1st lap of this circular debate and i am satisfied that i have made and backed up my points (with material other than biblical quotes). its now your duty to see what you make of that which has been said. if you still stick to your original beliefs my faith in and respect for christianity dies a little more. cheers

You donlt have any real evidence.

n3M351s wrote:We've been over this before, evolution is a false theory. Species may change which is a natural occurrence, but apes turning into men and the likes is just utter stupidity.

Thriller wrote:

Although kudos to the people up there who managed to build up control of the masses via sexism, ideas of supremacy and ignorance.

Your talking about Christianity right?

urogard wrote:Of the most common cults on this world (buddhism, christianity, islam, judaism, shintoism) I'd say islam and christianity are the biggest scum of them all (crusades, inquisitions, sharia etc. just to name a few).

urogard wrote:And no, if anyone tries to argue those things are past then they are wrong, i've yet to see any high ranked official of those churches denounce the "holiness" of those actions, and second of all they aren't past because it's still happening today under the same banners as hundreds of years ago.

n3M351s wrote:LiQuiD wrote:
the bible has been proven wrong on several points. the age of the earth and evolution stand out.
You're incorrect there.

There is no definitive proof of the Earth being billions of years old, if there is please do share. The Bible tells of Earth being 10,000 years old allowing enough time for all of history to fill that time. Why is there no history beyond that time? Simple, since Earth didn't exist. If you have any evidence to support your claims of Earth being over 10,000 years old, please enlighten me.

We've been over this before, evolution is a false theory. Species may change which is a natural occurrence, but apes turning into men and the likes is just utter stupidity.

Mister Sandman wrote:Are you that thick?

Mister Sandman wrote:for I know God is stronger than anything.

Mister Sandman wrote:The real funny thing is you admitted to believing in lies.

Mister Sandman wrote:the whole faith is void

LiQuiD wrote:

n3M351s wrote:LiQuiD wrote:
the bible has been proven wrong on several points. the age of the earth and evolution stand out.
You're incorrect there.

There is no definitive proof of the Earth being billions of years old, if there is please do share. The Bible tells of Earth being 10,000 years old allowing enough time for all of history to fill that time. Why is there no history beyond that time? Simple, since Earth didn't exist. If you have any evidence to support your claims of Earth being over 10,000 years old, please enlighten me.

We've been over this before, evolution is a false theory. Species may change which is a natural occurrence, but apes turning into men and the likes is just utter stupidity.

there is definitive proof. a person who fails to see that is either an idiot, or someone happy in their ignorant and mistaken beliefs. there are MANY things made by humans which pre-date the the age of the earth according to the bible. perhaps they were created before the world? lol at that until the cows come home, evolve into birds, then fly away.
Show me where in the Bible it says the earth is 10k years.
i wonder how mountains, islands, eroded valleys and other geological features could have appeared in the space of 10k years?
Quite a few.
and how did oil come into being? or diamonds? both take a fair bit more than 10k years to be formed.
Process could be sped up.
or fossils? they must have been buried beneath the earth when it was creayed eh?

you spout foolish logic to ''''''''''prove'''''''''' your ''''''''''facts''''''''''

its funny until i realise how sad it is. your mind is crippled by indoctrination.


@sandman:
O- its simple math. using the dates throughout the bible you would end up with a calculation of the world being around 10,000 years old.
There is still no definite verse saying that the earth is 10,000 years old, and don't forget time is relative.
O-

Mister Sandman wrote:Are you that thick?

if you are the opposite of thick, i count that a complement.

O- you say evolution is possible in terms of what the bible says? you are wrong. significant evolution cannot happen in the space of 10,000 years.
evolution is, simply put, the change in a creature. Evolution happens every second.
O- even if we were 99% wrong about the age of the earth (which we are not) that would still make it older by far than the bible would suggest.

O- god may be 'outside' time, but the humans and earth are 'inside' time. nice way to deflect a sensible point with what if style nonsense. what if i am God? i could be right, according to your logic. theres nothing in the bible saying im not God, therefore i can make up some arbitrary points which prove i am. bow down to me pls.
Your not God, your human, don't blaspheme.
O- 'Christianity (from the word Xριστός "Christ") is a monotheistic religion[1] centered on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament.[2]'
That argument has no substance.
O-

Mister Sandman wrote:for I know God is stronger than anything.

i beg to differ. pls google superman.
Sorry to burst your bubble but superman is made up, and there is no tooth fairy and Santa is long dead.
O-

Mister Sandman wrote:The real funny thing is you admitted to believing in lies.

that is taken so out of context its a joke. if you cant refer to my posts in a sensible manner without twisting extracts from sentences, do not respond at all.

O-

Mister Sandman wrote:the whole faith is void

finally you admit it. this method seem familiar?
quoting me out of context funny. I didn't take your quote out of context.
to sum up? you are tripping. chill out, stand very still, and God may drop 50tons of common sense on you. peaceout

LiQuiD wrote:there is definitive proof. a person who fails to see that is either an idiot, or someone happy in their ignorant and mistaken beliefs. there are MANY things made by humans which pre-date the the age of the earth according to the bible. perhaps they were created before the world? lol at that until the cows come home, evolve into birds, then fly away.

i wonder how mountains, islands, eroded valleys and other geological features could have appeared in the space of 10k years?

and how did oil come into being? or diamonds? both take a fair bit more than 10k years to be formed.

or fossils? they must have been buried beneath the earth when it was creayed eh?

you spout foolish logic to ''''''''''prove'''''''''' your ''''''''''facts''''''''''

its funny until i realise how sad it is. your mind is crippled by indoctrination.

n3M351s wrote:Of course you will deny the Great Flood, but therein lays your answers.

n3M351s wrote:That is the stupidest thing I've read in this whole debate lol

n3M351s wrote:

urogard wrote:Of the most common cults on this world (buddhism, christianity, islam, judaism, shintoism) I'd say islam and christianity are the biggest scum of them all (crusades, inquisitions, sharia etc. just to name a few).

I suggest you read up on your history.

n3M351s wrote:As you may not be aware of, many churches and denominations don't have high ranked officials or the likes. Its just the Pastor and the people.

Mister Sandman wrote:

LiQuiD wrote:O-

Mister Sandman wrote:for I know God is stronger than anything.

i beg to differ. pls google superman.

Sorry to burst your bubble but superman is made up, and there is no tooth fairy and Santa is long dead.

LiQuiD wrote:i will say this slowly so you can understand ok?

if you determine the age of the world using the dates given in the bible, you
will come up with a figure of around 10,000 years or less. this age comes from using the dates of births, deaths, events and the like.
its your bible so according to your logic it must be correct right? but now suddenly the bible isnt correct in your opinion. so i was right all along saying it isnt factual. thankyou for backing up my point.

if you want to think all the geological features of the world could be formed in 10,000 years feel free. it makes everyone else here seem smarter. although i shudder to think of how you would explain continental drift, or the growth of coral reefs, or the formation of caves etc. oh wait you did explain them all by saying the 'Process could be sped up.' wow thats clever. to make so bold a claim there must be proof. ill not burden you with the need to post your mountains of proof, ive seen enough of the bible today

your views on evolution would make a good stand up routine. well maybe a few jokes in one at least. its been proven. i know it has. theres no further need to discuss it.

you say im not God. where in the bible does it say that im not God? the bible is the last word in everything in your view, so what does it say about me being your God? if theres nothing about me in it, i must be God. well i learn something new every day. pls bow down before me. . . and bring offerings of doughnuts. thanks

superman is made up? from made up comic books . . . you believe one book full of made up stuff so why not believe in superman. praise the man with a cape!

The Bible is factual and therefore not made up. Superman however, I haven't seen any evidence he did exist. And he was made up.

'Christianity (from the word Xριστός "Christ") is a monotheistic religion[1] centered on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament.[2]'
thats a quote from wikipedia in response to someone saying christianity isnt a religion. although not infallible, wiki is generally correct when it matters.

Mister Sandman wrote:

LiQuiD wrote:i will say this slowly so you can understand ok?

if you determine the age of the world using the dates given in the bible, you
will come up with a figure of around 10,000 years or less. this age comes from using the dates of births, deaths, events and the like.
its your bible so according to your logic it must be correct right? but now suddenly the bible isnt correct in your opinion. so i was right all along saying it isnt factual. thankyou for backing up my point.

The bible itself, is factual. Interpenetration, are different. In regards to your 10,000 years or less argument, I have no qualms with the earth being 10,000 years old. As I said, and will keep on saying. You can't understand Time any more than you can understand the mind of God. The age of the earth really has no matter. 10,000 years, 10 Million years, 10 Billion years. Who Cares? Time cannot be defined. The point is, that wherever you look at it, there has to be some sort of creation.

In addition, the tools of what science uses to measure/create dates are extremely inaccurate.

I will give you an example: One of my friends killed a chicken a while back and thought it would be funny to get the "age" of the dead chicken through the process of carbon dating and other things. So what he did was, he fossilised the foot in a week(omg is that possible, duh ofc ive seen it been done). And went to the laboratory and asked the scientists to run tests on the week old fossil of a dead chickens foot.

The results with using 3 tests of different methods. Is 3 different answers:
2 Thousand years old.
10 Million years old.
4 Billion years old.

Pretty funny, and when he told the scientist it was killed a week ago the scientist didn't believe him.

if you want to think all the geological features of the world could be formed in 10,000 years feel free. it makes everyone else here seem smarter. although i shudder to think of how you would explain continental drift, or the growth of coral reefs, or the formation of caves etc. oh wait you did explain them all by saying the 'Process could be sped up.' wow thats clever. to make so bold a claim there must be proof. ill not burden you with the need to post your mountains of proof, ive seen enough of the bible today

your views on evolution would make a good stand up routine. well maybe a few jokes in one at least. its been proven. i know it has. theres no further need to discuss it.

So its been proven that men came from monkeys? Dream on ape boy. If we did come from apes, why arn't they giving birth to new human children today?

As I said, parts of evolution are fact. Parts are theory, and other parts absolute fallacious.

you say im not God. where in the bible does it say that im not God? the bible is the last word in everything in your view, so what does it say about me being your God? if theres nothing about me in it, i must be God. well i learn something new every day. pls bow down before me. . . and bring offerings of doughnuts. thanks

Funny, however, your not a supernatural being. No human can be God. Your flawed and thus, not God.

superman is made up? from made up comic books . . . you believe one book full of made up stuff so why not believe in superman. praise the man with a cape!

The Bible is factual and therefore not made up. Superman however, I haven't seen any evidence he did exist. And he was made up.

'Christianity (from the word Xριστός "Christ") is a monotheistic religion[1] centered on the life and teachings of Jesus as presented in the New Testament.[2]'
thats a quote from wikipedia in response to someone saying christianity isnt a religion. although not infallible, wiki is generally correct when it matters.

It's a way of life. And to be centred around the life and teachings of Jesus, requires the New Testament.

urogard wrote:So you want to deny that either that Crusades and inquisitions were directed against heretics, unbelievers and were "violence condoned by the allfarty god"?
or you want to say that Crusades and inquisitions were good things and they should be continued over and over again?

This isn't about what other cults did, which i really don't care since many did terrible things, and i'm not part of any cult anyway. But firstly that the christian and islamic cults are the most primitive and barbaric and secondly that you should always go fix your own faults before trying to point at others (yes, i am pointing at others here because never in my life have i ever condoned anyone forcing onto anyone else their will and morals)

n3M351s wrote:As you may not be aware of, many churches and denominations don't have high ranked officials or the likes. Its just the Pastor and the people.

If neither the pastor, kardinals, popes, rabbis, mindless drones who follow these cultis beliefs nor anyone else publicly admits that the atrocities commited by their cults were stupid then it can be safely assumed that these cults are just as primitive and barbaric as they were centuries ago.

=> and people are wondering why the society is degenerating lmao

...
The moment someone draws a cartoon of someone or makes up many stories about him and puts them all together into one single book he automatically becomes an imaginary figure who cannot exist.

Does this remind anyone of the bible and the christian god?

Therefore using sandmans logic he himself disproved the existence of god

LiQuiD wrote:i will say this slowly so you can understand ok?

If talking slow makes you feel smart go for it.

if you determine the age of the world using the dates given in the bible, you
will come up with a figure of around 10,000 years or less. this age comes from using the dates of births, deaths, events and the like.
its your bible so according to your logic it must be correct right? but now suddenly the bible isnt correct in your opinion. so i was right all along saying it isnt factual. thankyou for backing up my point.

Yes I believe it is correct. When did I say that is wasn't? I backed up no point of yours.

if you want to think all the geological features of the world could be formed in 10,000 years feel free. it makes everyone else here seem smarter. although i shudder to think of how you would explain continental drift, or the growth of coral reefs, or the formation of caves etc. oh wait you did explain them all by saying the 'Process could be sped up.' wow thats clever. to make so bold a claim there must be proof. ill not burden you with the need to post your mountains of proof, ive seen enough of the bible today

Maybe you should verify your claims before putting words in my mouth, it doesn't make you look too smart. The world was changed by the Flood. I have no need to explain it here, search for 'Creation Geology' or 'Flood Geology' on Google.

your views on evolution would make a good stand up routine. well maybe a few jokes in one at least. its been proven. i know it has. theres no further need to discuss it.

I believe natural selection and mutations to be true. As for one species evolving into another... I find it hilarious that you can believe that man evolved from cell>cells>organisms>spongecells>flatworm>worm>eel>eelfish>fish>amphibians>lizards>monitors>shrew>mouserat>mousemoney>monkeys>(just about every kind of primate there is)>apes>orangutans>chimpanzees>humans. No more please.

n3M351s wrote:That is the stupidest thing I've read in this whole debate lol

lol then you obviously havent read your posts or sandman's

Nice come back there.

i smell smoke. are you planning to burn a heretic? or maybe a fluffy wabbit that didnt convert to your way of thinking? meh its all good. see you in hell

I find it funny that you bring up past events of other denominations which have no relevance whatsoever. Stereotyping = simpleminded.