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Lithium wrote:Not only is it unrealistic, it also ruins the spirit of the game, when a 20tril def can theoritically be taken down by a 1.5tril strike (+ the added stuff explained by Sarevok)


ya talkin craps man , have u ever massed abig def wit a low strike

20T vs 1.5T , ya aint gona make it.

ya need almost half of def power in strike to be able.

imo, def planets should atleast cost less to build up than attack planets. And MS should give more 'protection' whilst defending (maybe something like, MS strike can only add 1/2 natural strike, but can add up to the entire def)

actually MS def gives more , build 100k volleys and 100k shields and see who gives more power.

First of all, I said theoritical. So long as you can afford to repair your weapons, and retrain your troops, and your target stays offline... You are still damaging their weapons and killing their troops (when you get an AB). It will take a while, but you will eventually take it down.

And secondly, I didn't mean shields, but volleys. i.e. A 1tril strike on a MS will only be able to add 250bil extra strike on a 500bil natural strike. whilst that same MS will be able to add a 500bil extra def (power) on a 500bil def (not natural). (So It's still the volleys)

Sarajevo wrote:Lithium the only reason you are posting here and against this idea is because Noobert made it, if someone not in FUALL suggested it, you wouldn't even be posting here. SO think twice about why you're here.

I've already made this suggestion, tie Attack bonuses (Planets and MS) to raw defense power, so you need a large defense to benefit from your large attack planets and huge MS.

I don't like the idea of making Planets damageable besides taking them, and also MS slots being destroyed or disabled. Those are both fine how they are, and Planets being made any easier to hurt would basically completely ruin them. Already no planet is safe and anyone can take almost any other planet someone has.

I didn't really understand the idea posted about being able to mass someones strike, I only briefly skimmed over it. I kinda want to read more about it though so can someone elaborate on it

Sorry for not quoting you. (This thread is getting quite big )

Jedi~Tank wrote:I wont get into numbers and calculations..Ill leave that to the really smart people (yes I am not as smart as you )

Strike attack-
*100 turns to attack a strike
*Bunker option- to protect the strike usable 1nce every 8 hours, so when a player is offline he or she can bumker the strike but not use it for 8 hours..also you can allow a specific number of hits on strike while bunkered.

Strike.Defense Ratio- 25%- defense must be kept within 25% of the raw strike to protect it from damage (total strike?)

Attack/Defense planets- make them sattelites with slots and optional to use in the manner the MS is.

Nox/Critical- Plague effect for those that use it as cheap defense..or eliminate it altogether.

You mean, 100ATs to do 'one' attack on a strike? That's a bit... insane imo... You'll won't be able to kill much at all with a hole lot of ATs.

2nd. I agree. A bunker would be quite good, although there should be some disadvantage to this... Maybe something like, takes 100ATs to enable, and removes something like 5ATs per turn thereafter. Otherwise it will be abused.

i.e. Send it out for 8 hours when it comes back, mass lots of people/farm the moment someone targets your strike, bunker it again.

Well, if it kills units, you can't really call it nox, can you? But I personally like this concept. And atm, I don't have any suggestions for it.

Manetheren wrote:Why make it necessary to have a defense to build a strike? Seems silly to me. If someone doesnt have a defense then kill their spies and sab their strike. Isnt that what those options were put there for?

But people with say, lvl 34, and perhaps lvl 34 covert can have 200k spies trained and still remain quite unsab'able. And there are some with, say 10mil supers trained with weapons, and lvl 34 with some cheap 1bil def to make AC'ing quite unprofitable, and sabbing even worse.

Manetheren wrote:Why make it necessary to have a defense to build a strike? Seems silly to me. If someone doesnt have a defense then kill their spies and sab their strike. Isnt that what those options were put there for?

Difference between no defense, and a 20B defense and a 600B strike..

Lithium wrote:Not only is it unrealistic, it also ruins the spirit of the game, when a 20tril def can theoritically be taken down by a 1.5tril strike (+ the added stuff explained by Sarevok)
ya talkin craps man , have u ever massed abig def wit a low strike.

In theory it can be done. When you get blessed, and they don't. I never said it wouldn't cost you a lot of resources, i was simply pointing out that it CAN be done.
MS: Simple, anyone with a decent MS that is build up, is often sent away fro protection whilst their offline/busy. So that issue is solved (and even if you count it in the defense, and also 10x100B defense planets, you still need 18T worth of supers/mercs... to which the attacker STILL only needs 2m supers, and 1m mercs...)

Sarajevo wrote:*Elaboration plz!*

Basically, Jedi and I were considering the idea of having another form of turns (strike turns or something), which could be used to attack a strike directly to kill the units (not the weapons). Look for Jedi's first post, and read from there basically (about page 3-5?)

Jedi~Tank wrote:*100 turns to attack a strike

Still liking this idea

Jedi~Tank wrote:*Bunker option- to protect the strike usable 1nce every 8 hours, so when a player is offline he or she can bumker the strike but not use it for 8 hours..also you can allow a specific number of hits on strike while bunkered.

Perhaps if it lasted like 6 hours, but if it lasted 8, then probably not. However, if you were to say that, it took 2 turns to come out, and during that time they couldn't attack, but could be attacked, then perhaps 8 hours could be used, to defense whilst asleep/working

Lithium wrote:i tho this thread was to have def as mandatory to build strike not how to kill strike, cmone guys stick on topic ,

It was initially, your 100% right. Except it's turned into more of a "Lets fix massive strike with 0 defense any way we can" thread

Manetheren wrote:Why make it necessary to have a defense to build a strike? Seems silly to me. If someone doesnt have a defense then kill their spies and sab their strike. Isnt that what those options were put there for?

Because, the most useful part (The units) are NOT kill-able. If your over the raid cap, then the ONLY way to get units back, is to use your UP. Attackers can't be killed, whereas defenders can be.
What i don't understand is, why would i go and raid someones home town, the people that just attacked my town are sitting at home, having high-tea, and i walk right by them, and destroy their weapons. Why wouldn't i kill them also, whilst undefended?

Jedi~Tank wrote:Attack/Defense planets- make them sattelites with slots and optional to use in the manner the MS is.

Nox/Critical- Plague effect for those that use it as cheap defense..or eliminate it altogether.

I like the slots idea for attack/defense planets (but perhaps making them to MS-like?
Not so sure about Nox/Critical causing losses. Especially if your being sabbed, and would rather keep the weapons, then watch them disappear

CABAL wrote:

Manetheren wrote:Why make it necessary to have a defense to build a strike? Seems silly to me. If someone doesnt have a defense then kill their spies and sab their strike. Isnt that what those options were put there for?

But people with say, lvl 34, and perhaps lvl 34 covert can have 200k spies trained and still remain quite unsab'able. And there are some with, say 10mil supers trained with weapons, and lvl 34 with some cheap 1bil def to make AC'ing quite unprofitable, and sabbing even worse.

I thought there were enough people out there with level 34 or even 33 ac that would make it worth it to ac that level 34 covert. If you are looking at a way to keep someone from building a 3 tril strike, larger covert(levelwise) and little defense.. eliminating nox would be the best way to counteract that. That has done the most to slow this game down and eliminate attrition from the war ending equation.

Sarevok wrote:I like the slots idea for attack/defense planets (but perhaps making them to MS-like?
Not so sure about Nox/Critical causing losses. Especially if your being sabbed, and would rather keep the weapons, then watch them disappear

The nox/critical allows for too easy escape...do 1 of 2 things here, either make the defending account phased by attack TURNS rather than total number of turns USED or eliminate it..if nox/critical stays then dilute the time phased.

Attack/Defense planets..its fine to make them slightly ms like, place a cap on the slots in relation to strike/defense. Make the weps sellable..I guess what Im saying is make the att/def planets destroyable but usable when needed instead of stealable as those planets arent really planets? or maybe allow the platforms to be used as a strike weapon as they are a defense weapon. However it happens I personally would like to see them NOT planets.

I don't like the idea of making attacking a Strike cost more AT, that would basically ruin the Market and drive AT prices WAY up farther than they are... and be very bad T__T

Although having like Strike Turns similar to Covert Turns where you can mass someones strike, when their defense is down (I assume), is a good idea and I like it.

Sarajevo wrote:I don't like the idea of making attacking a Strike cost more AT, that would basically ruin the Market and drive AT prices WAY up farther than they are... and be very bad T__T

Although having like Strike Turns similar to Covert Turns where you can mass someones strike, when their defense is down (I assume), is a good idea and I like it.

Thats what I was referring to..strike turns= 100 and covert turns= 100 so you have 200 turns interchangeable for one or the other or both.

Jedi~Tank wrote:

Sarajevo wrote:I don't like the idea of making attacking a Strike cost more AT, that would basically ruin the Market and drive AT prices WAY up farther than they are... and be very bad T__T

Although having like Strike Turns similar to Covert Turns where you can mass someones strike, when their defense is down (I assume), is a good idea and I like it.

Thats what I was referring to..strike turns= 100 and covert turns= 100 so you have 200 turns interchangeable for one or the other or both.

Well that sounds good then!

I dunno which I like more having Strike tied to Defense or being able to mass Strike after Defense is zero. That still doesn't solve the problem of people will have a 5bil defense to protect their strike like they do Covert, and never build a large one. I think...

Unless you mean to say you don't need to have defense 0 to mass strike, in which case I don't like the suggestion.

CABAL wrote:But people with say, lvl 34, and perhaps lvl 34 covert can have 200k spies trained and still remain quite unsab'able. And there are some with, say 10mil supers trained with weapons, and lvl 34 with some cheap 1bil def to make AC'ing quite unprofitable, and sabbing even worse.

man game offers you cov and AC lvl's, now if u dont buy them u cant sab and AC at low cost, which makes u look for other options to eliminate yr enemy stats. why????

if u have to AC but it looks not profitable to u then just 15at that 10b def , it wont last much so u AC at turn cost then u can sab after, its easy, why complicating the game wit AT turns, bunkers , mandatory def etc.
already the game gives u all the options that if used well you can do max damage to yr enemy

Ok, Lithium, all you need to do, is show us how we can pro-activly destroy a persona attack UNITS, and we'll leave the topic be. As it stands, ATK units CAN'T be killed, allowing for massers to buy weapons, mass everyone, and sell weapons, then bank...

Jedi, i'd like to try out ATK/DEF planet slots on Dev, before putting into affect anything on here. Just to see how it all works with taking planets etc. Perhaps the slots get destroyed, like defense/attack does now, so tehy can only rebuild it up to there, without adding more slots.

Lithium wrote:

CABAL wrote:But people with say, lvl 34, and perhaps lvl 34 covert can have 200k spies trained and still remain quite unsab'able. And there are some with, say 10mil supers trained with weapons, and lvl 34 with some cheap 1bil def to make AC'ing quite unprofitable, and sabbing even worse.

man game offers you cov and AC lvl's, now if u dont buy them u cant sab and AC at low cost, which makes u look for other options to eliminate yr enemy stats. why????

if u have to AC but it looks not profitable to u then just 15at that 10b def , it wont last much so u AC at turn cost then u can sab after, its easy, why complicating the game wit AT turns, bunkers , mandatory def etc.
already the game gives u all the options that if used well you can do max damage to yr enemy

Well, do you know how long it takes to mass a 10bil def, then AC 500k spies down to 100k when they have nox!?
If nox is removed (or dramatically changed) then it'll probably be doable...

Sarevok wrote:Ok, Lithium, all you need to do, is show us how we can pro-activly destroy a persona attack UNITS, and we'll leave the topic be. As it stands, ATK units CAN'T be killed, allowing for massers to buy weapons, mass everyone, and sell weapons, then bank...

Well, i think every ne masser can agree if i say, massers are loosing milions of units daily. Those who sell weapons, have to buy them again or they can hit with unarmed soldiers and loosing even more. Selling weapons after massing = 50% loose of Naq by selling: 1m weapons cost 600b, if you seel than you hav eback just 300b.

10m supers army amred with 6T weapons worth, after massing sold = 3T loose

I personaly sell weapons ocasinaly, only if i have over 5m weapons i sell them, but always leave there some to sab for enemyes.

Also, massing 10b defence if nox is on, is hard. but!! easy if you use few hits, than sab. It is easy because:

This idea is made against those who have large strike without defence. Those are easy sabable, 1 - 3 sabs kills def weapons and you can AC spies and sab the rest of weapons.

July 2009 - Defense Damage / Minimums
Defense has increased slightly in that you must have 25% (opposed to 20% previous) of the defense value in attack value, in order to damage the defender.
Additionally, if you are much weaker than the defender, less weapon damage is taken. It used to be a altered by attack/defence, now it is altered by attack/defense squared..to a minimum of 5% of normal (or 200% of normal if you are more powerful than the defender).

This update started the whole idea of this. First, make our defences harder to mass, than sugest new update about building defences.

Every one in this game wanted a change, to make the game more available for players who are not willing to sit hiurs and hours long to play, for beginners and ppl who want to start the game.

At this lvl, when we see giant MS's, huge planet supports and hundreds ppl with 10 - 23 ascensions, updates like were mentioned in this thread, will make the game less playable for those who have not one of mentioned bonuses (MS, planets, ascensions, covert/AC lvls).

Covering strike with defence - 90% negatives, 10%positives
Def/attack planets satelites - 50%/50%
Replacing Nox from game - i would sugest just to shorten the oeriod between attacks, cuse 7 seconds if nox/crit is... unplayable

And those who maybe thinks, that ppl who are not building defences over 1T in war time, are not loosing units, lets see my ME log:

Lost by massing:
Super Soldier Lost 350,509,792
Assassin Lost 46,239,425

Lost by beeing massed:
Super Guards Lost 61,492,018
Undercover Agents Lost 81,583,723

And compare the cost of massers:
Attack Super Soldiers Killed(15) 72,735,579
Spy Killers Killed(5) 49,070,005

Result: massers killed 21.27m units more than have lost by massing me. Even if i dont build big defence during war times.

That means, sugested update is only to change the status of long wars where one group of players are rebuilding defences daily, another group less, weekly or once per month.

Another side of coin, i would to see defence coverd by strike, because we know players with 5T defence and only low strike to raid. It should be the same with strike than, so if someone wants to build 20T def, he would need 25% strike. wich is 5T. Of course, all conuted without planet bonuses.

Why all sugested updates seems to benefit only one group of players? Doesnt this gamne play another 20 000 players who maybe dont share the idea of destroyng sniper mods?

Ok, Lithium, all you need to do, is show us how we can pro-activly destroy a persona attack UNITS, and we'll leave the topic be. As it stands, ATK units CAN'T be killed, allowing for massers to buy weapons, mass everyone, and sell weapons, then bank...

man why u want to change smth that has been here for 4 yrs ? u can sab weaps which cost 1m ~ 600b same as 1m units and u still do damage. i see u want to erase completely yr enemy, try "war of attrition" then it kills everything if u are looking for it. unless u want to kill and not get massed back.

Well, do you know how long it takes to mass a 10bil def, then AC 500k spies down to 100k when they have nox!?

i have done that many times, if u want catch me online and i ll show u how to.

would be good to lower that 7 sec a little

caesar2 wrote:Another side of coin, i would to see defence coverd by strike, because we know players with 5T defence and only low strike to raid. It should be the same with strike than, so if someone wants to build 20T def, he would need 25% strike. wich is 5T. Of course, all conuted without planet bonuses.

Well you don't want to put too much limitations, or else everyone will have the same stats

Lithium wrote:

Ok, Lithium, all you need to do, is show us how we can pro-activly destroy a persona attack UNITS, and we'll leave the topic be. As it stands, ATK units CAN'T be killed, allowing for massers to buy weapons, mass everyone, and sell weapons, then bank...

man why u want to change smth that has been here for 4 yrs ? u can sab weaps which cost 1m ~ 600b same as 1m units and u still do damage. i see u want to erase completely yr enemy, try "war of attrition" then it kills everything if u are looking for it. unless u want to kill and not get massed back.

Well, do you know how long it takes to mass a 10bil def, then AC 500k spies down to 100k when they have nox!?

i have done that many times, if u want catch me online and i ll show u how to.

would be good to lower that 7 sec a little

I've done it as well, tbh... But its near impossible if your opponent is online, and you don't have much of an AC lvl. (They could just suddenly build a def during the 7s, and slaughter AC, especially if people hold down enter, and they turn off nox)

And yes, 7s is a bit over doing it imo...

We want to be able to kill attackers so..all of my ideas revolve around be able to do so...in some way, or in a couple of ways. AND..if we are going to be able to kill attackers, then we should be able in some way to protect them or atleast some of them..and when we choose to protect them then they are out of action for a specific amount of time.

Back to the ATT/DEF planets..the main reason I suggested make them usable weapons is so the attack grid, or defense grid as a whole is accessible to attacks.

caesar2 wrote:Another side of coin, i would to see defence coverd by strike, because we know players with 5T defence and only low strike to raid. It should be the same with strike than, so if someone wants to build 20T def, he would need 25% strike. wich is 5T. Of course, all conuted without planet bonuses.

I can agree with this.