Re: So what is the problem?
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:18 am
by The O-Neill
So many things to say, not enough time. So here's a 'little' take on it.
There are some misconceptions about ascended server that need to be cleared up. The first is the complete lack of understanding of the nature of logarithmic (or something resembling that...so lack of a better word) caps and increasing costs per level. But I'll get to that a little later. Anyone that says 'you can't catch up', is telling you they don't understand ascension. It's entirely made TO catch up.
1. You can become undescendable from the get go. It's all about your max life force. Keep it low enough relative to others, you are not descendable....PERIOD (but it also greatly retards your ability to descend). So you give up being undescendable, IF you decide you want to descend (for the most part). You can actually have your cake and eat it too a little bit, but again, only if you are within 5x. Thus it's up to you, and if you 'hit buttons', then sorry, you screwed up. Forum even tells you to wait a while and see which things to hit. So you were warned. A smarter player would hedge things a bit to give them protection like say 24 hours protection from descension, while at the same time having the ability to descend a wide swath of people.
Size has NOTHING to do with being undescendable. A person could literally do it on the 1st day without ending his ascension ppt. Also size doesn't mean you are an uber descender. Max energy level...think about it. I figured it out 1st day descending was announced with the stats it was going to use to determine it. Undoubtedly many more did as well. (and you can't descend people that are outside the cap as well)
If you screwed up, it depends how far along did you? There is a point where you can raise it and keep under it, but again, with the changes, that target moved. If you go over by a lot, it could take months, years, or never. You could also be at the point where you were catching up, but it moved, and now have to 'catch' up again. I saw this coming, but still went ahead with some increases a couple of years ago, but not too far given that I knew it would eventually be relaxed like it recently has.
2. The 5x rule is there to protect the smaller people. It adds layers to the game, so that big people, or big alliances can't just have their top dogs lose 1 million planets (or 10 as in ten) a hit taking them down. This is fair as otherwise, a big dog could literally run through a small alliance of 50 young players in a few turns. (and not be going for speed) [and the really nefarious ones could use such 'godly' tactics to recruit the best players out of said alliance]. Of course being a sniper and hovering around the 2 bill mark (or 4 or 6) has it's advantages as well, as it doesn't matter WHAT you lose, as you'll make it back 10-100 times quicker than someone up high. So in a sense both ends give you the same thing. If you are too big, you can easily destroy players, if you keep yourself small, you can easily destroy players, and with the cap, everybody will be within x5 soon enough.
3. Actually catching up is quite easy in ascended (as well as being pretty much assured over time). Farming can do it, knowing what to pick, when, helps too. You won't catch up to the top dogs without playing, but with the 5x rule...why do you HAVE to? As you get bigger, you can attack more. I'm 36 billl planets, which means someone only needs to be ~7 billion to hit me (not necessarily successful, but entirely possible). But if someone with 2-3 bill planets wanted to, how the hell could they anyways? So the x5 rule is a separator that works, because it prevents people that are either a) too small from being crushed from above b)sniper to the extreme from below...at least it limits the number of times they can given time. If you're within 5x you have a shot, if not, there's no way you could do anything anyways, and forum shouldn't change the server to appease snipers. I'm not saying it's a bad tactic, just saying forum shouldn't switch the rules on that to benefit a group that risks losing no income. So really, catching up is a matter of being within 5x, not being bigger. Then you use 'other' methods, if they deserve it.
But the #4 is the big one.
4. The curves are still changing. Just wait a few more months, things will STILL be changing. This is a long train ride, and one that still hasn't reached its destination. The amounts to increase levels is insane. Just wait as like covert levels in main, ascended is hitting the wall too (except when you get that extra level, it isn't a 50 percent increase), and you can't use $$$$. This will make things much more interesting. (and make it 'catch' up time, for many people). Just wait as everyone closes in within 200 levels of each other. That time still hasn't come yet, but it will. Now if I wanted to farm these past 3 years instead of recycling my own income....2 million fleets would be an afterthought, but oh well, I guess zerohedge and the economic collapse that is still ongoing (which I've been telling people has been coming since about 2004, give or take) is only going to get worse, unless we invoke Glass-Steagall, has been a tad bit more important for me, and with my father's aneurysm I've just had a lot on my plate, between the two, than to try to completely outpace everyone. But I also haven't needed to...until I needed to, which by that time comes, it'll be too late, and it already has been for years. But it doesn't matter, at least not until the 'end game' of this monetary iteration of ascension when all the people are within 200 levels of each other. (any of this could of been seen years ago, I saw it). I had enough escape velocity to overcome that, perhaps, but oh well, I decided against it. It's been a while,and still be awhile, before this tree bares fruit, but we're far closer to being there than being away from it. A few months, maybe a year. The people at the bottom shouldn't be complaining, the people at the top should be. Me, ultimately it doesn't matter, it's just a game. A great game, but it doesn't solve Glass-Steagall from being implemented in rl, and that's my #2 goal, and my fathers care #1. (10 years of college for a fast food job? no thanks Big Ben Bernanke)
But again, the updates in ascended, still haven't played out. Forum instituted something that still hasn't turned over all its cards. In the end, if one has tried, they will be able to hit anyone, farm anyone, etc. It's just a matter of time. Logarithmic caps with increasing costs (that give little in terms of benefits) assure this. It just doesn't look that way, until it is assuredly that way. People need to separate the forest from the trees on this one.
But of course, all of these things will only happen to those who play the game. Not those that don't, and not those that want to use $$$$. All of these problems, aren't rl money based, and thus you know someone had to work for it regardless of strategy.
5. Switching it up won't change anything. The big reason why it was reset before was because of the 'steal planets' rule that when in place and ganged up on gave one side the server. There also was no x5 rule. Aww people forget. WIthout the 'steal planet rule', there has been little reason to gang up (unless someone really deserved it) or war related. Even then, it would be something that 'cost' stats, not 'boosted'. Without the 'steal planet' rule, the server would not of been like how it was, and because it was directly based on that, in combination with active players that would have trended to be up top anyways, was all that was needed to consolidate entire alliances up top while also pushing others down. The situation between now and then are completely different. Those up top now, got there by playing and overcoming the caps, and really could have done a much better job overcoming the caps, but in the end it doesn't really matter, since the game eventually takes the separation away. Hell my income is 2/3 what it was 2 or 3 years ago. The old way was complete exponential growth, with no caps, with stealing planets, with a huge weapon used nefariously....all of which completely destroyed the server. This way is EVER lower growth, with caps, no planet stealing, no super weapon, and in the end, everyone is within 5x your size and can do whatever to you. (and people want more than this??? or do they just not see it???? or have they just not played long enough and want things easy????) In the end, IT might destroy the server. Or maybe it'll just be considered fair? Hell if I know.
This reset that occurred years ago now, still hasn't played out, and there will come a time soon, when every account will be farmable by many, with nothing, anyone can do to stop it. (so I guess I don't understand the whole....people will never be able to catch up....what?????) The fact is no one can stay ahead.
It is 1000x more easy to 'catch' up in ascended than main. Just wait and see. It's not linear, it's asymmetrical, like the real life markets. When the bow breaks, the cradle will fall. Or hyperinflate. But since there are caps in place, the cradle will metaphorically fall.
In the end, we'll all be snipers. Or a group of people that are all snipers.
I'm surprised no one else sees it. Because all of the above has been glaringly obvious since the day it was implemented. (I think that is why some decided to quit playing ascension THEN, but they stopped doing it that long ago, which means that bullet has already been taken) Now once we get to that point, perhaps we should take another direction, but to what? A general reset won't fix it. The same thing as last time, would bring about the same results, probably quicker. There is NOTHING inherently stable about a 'monetary system', which is what this entire game is (as to do with economics) in both main and ascended. So maybe the answer is some sort of one that can last a couple of years, or maybe not. I tend to think we shouldn't just retry something that might fail, though. Is it fair that someone who plays hard for 5 years is on the same level as someone for 2? Hard to say, if both played equally hard, but someone else did for an extra 3 years. But 'time' was given the initial advantage on the reset, and now people are having issues with it (as could of been expected), but again, it's going to even out so......people just need to be patient.
We all play federal reserve here. Or Queen of England. Or Roman Empire. Or Aristotle. It's also why after playing this game, it's so much easier to see the futility of our real life 'monetarism'. Because really it's the same game, just different rules. But the more things change, the more things remain the same. But unlike rl, it's okay for this game we play for fun to be based off of bs. We accept that. We just want it to be the best set up bs that produces a quality game. As for rl, I wholly reject it. Glass-Steagall and American (Hamiltonian) Credit System or we will have a new dark age. *try listening to someone who saw the whole thing coming instead of the ones who never did*
Once again I digress, so for ascended, you have to understand the futility of some of this, and that changing things up for change, doesn't mean the change is good (look at bankster obummer). What you change into, might be the same or worse. Without the planet stealing, 5x rule and with the caps, I think forum did a good job, considering the flaws inherent in monetary systems (far better than the federal reserve and central banks I'll tell ya). There is a time value now, and one that can be lost, and is over time being lost. I still don't believe people don't understand this. When a huge block are within 200 levels of each other, ascension will be completely different, for those that got to that point. Which will be a number that is always increasing, and including more into it. People that sat back and didn't do squat, will be able to jump back in and eventually get to this point quicker than others did, especially when the top accounts are decreasing in planet totals, not increasing. I am 100 percent certain of that, no matter who the player is. A sniper will be able to pick off the top accounts, and down they'll ALL go. With time value of planets, I could see a situation ahead where nobody in this game has 30 billion planets a year from now, unless they are all either producing (hella good farm), or just sitting idle. (and think about it, 1 year from now, much more people will be within striking distances of anyone 20-30 billion...if they're not already, definitely with greater levels, within a couple hundred levels). It's pretty obvious to me anyways and has been for years.
The only unfair thing I guess, is that main doesn't have a similar equalizer in store. So in the end, the money people DO win. As their server will have separation, but ascended will not. Of course it takes more rl money, but some still have it, at least for now. I hope forum looks into that. Because I believe that is the biggest issue, separation through rl money. Because that separation isn't benign like in ascended, it's a used advantage over others directly in battles. In the end, that will be the only separation there will be in this game. Not through playing, but only $$$$. So I guess I already went into....#
6. $$$ aspect has become huge in main. It's a bit sickening for my tastes, but ok, I understand this is a business, and if ascended is free from the 'federal reserve bailout' mentality, then I'm perfectly fine with the other server being trashed because of it. (and it has, in a way). With ms naq, and merlins, you can't have planets nor the 'biggest' ms without lots of $$$. No amount of playing will ever overcome that, and that's a shame. It's MUCH more pressing than 'can't catch up to the logarithmic screwed players who haven't been farming in 3 years, who I can't hit because I'm 7x smaller than them'. Yes you have to build up more than your attack, but only enough to get within 5x. Which is actually rather easy. It's funny how everyone says we need to make things easier in ascension, when that's what is happening everyday anyways. If anything forum should be looking to keep the separation going. Otherwise you'll have everyone in the same pot, beating each other senseless, sniper style. While now, you have bigger players and smaller players, and people in between, and none of the bigger players can really prey on the smaller ones. Only if you blew the bell curve would you have a chance at being safe....for a little while longer. In main, people with $$$ will rule the roost, and I just feel that is sub-optimal.
I say ascended for now is fine. Perhaps even define the separations a bit better and clear, and sharper. Yet allow people to at least move up a bit. (that said, someone that is determined can always make the leap)
So I hope everything is well with people. Read your zerohedge.com and your larouchepac.com. Always use your head, but those places will give you the best info, and have for years, about what is really going on. (if you couldn't notice it when crap.com was 200 a share with 0 earnings and with a bigger market cap than IBM)
Two words Glass-Steagall
...and remember, this game runs a monetary system like real life too. But this, is a FUN one. Enjoy it, before the rl one crushes you.
The O-Neill (and this was a quick message and most likely my only one..I don't have the time to really get in-depth or provide solutions at the moment, as I have to get busy readying the house for my dad's return from extended care, where he'll still be needing extended care, but I'll be the one mostly doing it, when a nurse isn't here, for free, until at least i get 'certified' through a 1 day 8 hour course, TBD by the people that will take over from the current blood suckers charging way too much for far too little care, 25,000 a month? for crap? [oh I'm sure they have a MERS mortgage they don't have to pay off....but are because they're stupid] 24k paid by the state, the rest sucking up his SS, and no 'all his needs are NOT met' as they LOVE to state is somehow true, even though it's completely false [pure sophistry and back slapping bs].) Great Health Care fascist bankster **Filtered** Obummer....sure doesn't look like single payer to me. [hint his health care is a freaking joke...wall street statistical bs, you can bank on that, as it truly is the same slight of hand tactics used by wall street to screw us all over in every other way, done with a twist...and yes I'm a dem so nobody give me crap about knowing the truth, because even the fascist tea party, doesn't get it, they're fools, just like Obummer, and forget the repubs, they've been clueless since Eisenhower left, and only because he CHOSE to be one to I even state that...otherwise you'd have to say clueless since Lincoln...which funny enough, they are all against what he did...amazing]
cer is only think people dnt catch up to easy Im 900 mill CER still i had a 800 mill toc in 6 months before the doubles in toc