Discussion on Cheating [merged]

[Caprila]

Haz has told you time and time again, his answer on this.

He shouldn't need to keep repeating that. Sleepy is right, in that it's childish to keep stomping your feet, and demanding he listen to some Q users over others.

We've tried alternative forms of communication to convey this answer, pm's, roleplay, pictures.. to see if that would make you understand. Alas, they roll over you like water on a duck's back.

Maybe it will take a day, a week or a month, but eventually, you will *understand*, that this answer isn't going to change without new evidence ( and by that, i mean *nothing* you have provided so far). No, does actually mean 'no', just as final means what it says on the tin.

[S1eepy]

OK, so I understand English is not your first language, and you seem to have misunderstood some messages. I will post them here, feel free to check they are the same as when you received them via PM.

what did u say in your message sleepy? even if hippy was a cheat you'd laugh and joke with him about it?

Even if the allegations are true, it would not stop me being friends with hippy. We are not friends just because of Q.. It would make me suspicious of his success in Q. But seen as Q is just a game.. And not the entire world... It would be something I would laugh at him for, not condemn him to the pits of hell for

I would laugh AT him for cheating in a game. Not with him. Because the allegations are that he had a second account, and used it to spy on people.. not that he built a death ray to wipe out all of the human race.

u said yourself u supported haz and hippy from the start so dont turn it round like we the ones causing trouble and u are impartial =]

I decided to accept the decision made by the only person who's decision mattered.

seen as I have sided with Haz from the beginning, and have refused to ostracise Hippy.

I sided with the decision maker, who was new to their role. Who would need help figuring out the lay of the land in a new environment. It doesn't even matter if his decision is correct, if you read the posts before he made a decision, I was also calling for a resolution, the only difference between us, is that I can accept someone else's decision.
Refusing to ostracise Hippy (refusing to shun him), is different to supporting him. Like I said above, the human race is safe.

And I would definitely say it is you and Neim that are the ones causing trouble, just read through this topic and have a look at who is posting, and it is clear that without you and Neim, we would not be having this conversation at all. Q would be continuing without this problem, and we would be able to concentrate on the future, rather than the past.
The problem we are facing is not cheating, but a section of the community who are throwing a tantrum because they are not getting their own way.

as for sleepy again if u dont like what is being wrote here u dont have to read the thread, it isnt just me and neim is it

So I should just ignore this topic, and move on with my life, because I cant force you to change your mind?
Wow.... sounds like familiar advice. I'll follow it if you do.

u seem to think 1 account per player rule dnt apply 2 u either hahahah

Please, follow THIS LINK and report exactly what it is you are accusing me of.

[bob the dog]

Teyla..

You want Hippy banned no?

What about me? You have call me a multi, and the endless PMs from you? (may i add rude)

Here is a list of PM from Teyla to me i think this calls for some kind of action to stop this bullying from Teyla?

below are a list of links to screen shots of my saved PM from Teyla and the messages themselves
http://prntscr.com/3nnojm
http://prntscr.com/3nnpjw
removed other links

Now some are more rude than others but i have a feeling that you Teyla are a homophobic, now i have nothing with with gay people (male or female) but i would take a stab in the dark and say you do,

However if i am wrong then this is if nothing else just rude.

P.S this is only the PMs from this era, I'm sure i have more from the last round as well.

I also have evidence that the game cop Crixus is just as rude as Teyla, but that's not for this topic as we are here to talk about banning Hippy and anything negative about Teyla.

Now back to my main point, as you can see from the PMs from her to myself she has been rude no? Surely this makes you think that maybe she has bullied some of the 35 people that "want" Hippy banned in to saying yes?

and now we wait for a nice POLITE reply from Teyla

[Caprila]

hey dude

u might know there was cheaters in the last round and the admins wont ban for stupid reasons

we want show of power in q that players say matters and all want fair game

i am now doing another petition like when we all feeding got banned =]

what we call for is tha cheaters to be banned that took the piss in last round and admins to do job proper!! this is hippyfool and selina, if u do not know about this go to forum and read thread by jack oneil = aint no cheaters cos they gone

wld u like 2 sign petition??? all names confidential and will only be shown 2 admins no other person will know what vote u gave, if u do want 2 sign reply 2 this msg with yes in the title so i can count up numbers easier

more of us sign teh better =]

will b counting up on 19th and putting it in on 20th/21st

teyla =]

Just for those wondering what exactly the petition said, and what these users 'agreed' to.

[bob the dog]

Teyla..

You want Hippy banned no?

What about me? You have call me a multi, and the endless PMs from you? (may i add rude)

Here is a list of PM from Teyla to me i think this calls for some kind of action to stop this bullying from Teyla?

below are a list of links to screen shots of my saved PM from Teyla and the messages themselves
http://prntscr.com/3nnojm
http://prntscr.com/3nnpjw
removed other links

Now some are more rude than others but i have a feeling that you Teyla are a homophobic, now i have nothing with with gay people (male or female) but i would take a stab in the dark and say you do,

However if i am wrong then this is if nothing else just rude.

P.S this is only the PMs from this era, I'm sure i have more from the last round as well.

I also have evidence that the game cop Crixus is just as rude as Teyla, but that's not for this topic as we are here to talk about banning Hippy and anything negative about Teyla.

Now back to my main point, as you can see from the PMs from her to myself she has been rude no? Surely this makes you think that maybe she has bullied some of the 35 people that "want" Hippy banned in to saying yes?

and now we wait for a nice POLITE reply from Teyla

As you can see forum admin has removed some of the links they are so rude, if you would like to know what Teyla said in the other PMs to me then feel free to PM me.

[Neimenljivi]

Caprila - why do you think it's so hard for us to wrap our heads around the facts that admins protect cheaters? Maybe because it's wrong?
Even if we forget about Hippy's case - what about the case of HoT feeding his old account from his new account (I get why he had 2 accounts - because he forgot the login details to his old account - so I am not demanding a ban for him, he deleted his new account after all after he fed his old one with it and started playing his old one again), admitting to it and he was unbanned by the admins after being banned for a day by Game Cops. A black and white case of feeding which the Game Cops saw and banned him for it. Then come the admins and unban him, undermine all the authority of Game Cops and support cheating even further.

Haz - what exactly is evidence, huh? In Q, there is no trading between accounts. Feeding is carefully policed (although, if someone is found to be fed - you guys will unban them anyway) - and before it was, Hippy was fed from that account A LOT. The only ways one could get help from multi accounts and mask it, are by saving resources on main account - that means they don't have to build unnecessary stats early on (Hippy: check) - and by massing/sabbing rivals/enemies with the other account instead of the main account (Hippy: check). You just threw all of this under circumstances and opinions when logs PROVE they aren't just that. So the only sorts of evidence (and something you said was the difference between Hippy and HoT) you could get are an IP match (hardly a decisive thing, due to proxies) and a confession (and people are capable of lying, you know, when their ass is on the line).

Elg - I agree with everything you said. Heck, Q used to be the first thing I checked once I opened my browser. Now it's among the last things.
The only thing I will correct you - multies weren't forbidden in the first couple of months of GW. After people used to get stupid advantage over others due to using many, many multies, the rule of no multies was added and immediately it was the first rule. A rule the most important - even more important than the rule about scripts. But the new admins just piss all over that rule. The rule 0) was added, I assume, by Juliette very recently. And apparently people who pretend to be someone else - without having any special powers whatsoever - are a bigger threat than multies.
Bare in mind, though, that we are talking about someone who was careless enough with the passwords to get admin access that their spouse was able to get the passwords and abused admin access in order to build up his account - and probably also used it to harm other accounts.

S1eepy - no, it's not because I didn't get my way on one subject that I refuse to bring any other potential cheaters to light. There's enough evidence for me to be 100% sure they are cheating. But Haz will throw all that under the bus since there was no IP match and no confession (and thus, no "evidence"). So why should I bother? Heck, I threw him a bone to a multi (or if we buy their story - a brother who had access to other brother's account [and vica versa] and logged in and abused that access) that confessed to having access to both accounts (also against the rules). All Haz needed to do was check a few topics out from the last era to find out who it was - and he hasn't managed to do even that. Someone who can't check a few topics and use the forum search option - well imho their investigative skills are very poor.

It also comes off as no surprise that you are on Hippy's side. Remember last era, when I said I know of someone who created a couple accounts, but that I knew they were being used to help make something useful for the community? Surprise, surprise, while you were building the latest Q calc, the Game Cops found an IP match between you and 2 newly created accounts (if I recall the number correctly). When they asked me about it, I told them my opinion - and still believe that was why you built them. But lets not lose sight of the fact that you are defending a known multi - the only one in the community to do it, might I add - whilst you created multi accounts yourself last era.

I am also very, very sorry if people cheating and not being punished for it brings attention to the message bearers.

bob the dog - is Teyla rude to people she doesn't like? Yes she is. That's who she is. Does that make her opinion any less relevant?
A previous petition I was talking about was mostly fueled by my actions - me selling insane amounts of naq in Q for $ because Jason, back then, refused to make feeding against the rules and refused to make USSs a means to support the game, rather than a means to win the era. Yes she was being rude to me. I was being rude to her back. You know what? In essence, we both agreed that had to be done, we just chose a different path to try and achieve it. In the end, we got what we wanted (along with every other Q player, except the players who benefited from having "friends" who fed them the most). If it was only Teyla putting up a petition or only me starving the game of money, this probably wouldn't have happened. And I am sure you agree that the end result is good for the game - no more feeding (at least until the new admins who will unban you, apparently, if you are found to have been fed). A lot of players who were on friendly terms with me and in war against Teyla signed that petition. And they were right to sign it, I don't blame them even. There were no threats from Teyla to them, she put whatever beef she had with them aside, just like she did this time round.

Caprila - I don't know if you did this intentionally or not, but here's a message I got from Teyla (and I reckon it was the same as everyone else got):

if i have set u 2 war 2 farm or u dnt like me then put tha aside for now =D

u might know there was cheaters in the last round and the admins wont ban for stupid reasons

we want show of power in q that players say matters and all want fair game

i am now doing another petition like when we all feeding got banned =]

what we call for is tha cheaters to be banned that took the piss in last round and admins to do job proper!! this is hippyfool and selina, if u do not know about this go to forum and read thread by jack oneil = aint no cheaters cos they gone

wld u like 2 sign petition??? all names confidential and will only be shown 2 admins no other person will know what vote u gave, if u do want 2 sign reply 2 this msg with yes in the title so i can count up numbers easier

more of us sign teh better =]

will b counting up on 19th and putting it in on 20th/21st

teyla =]

So, bob, what were you saying again?
Also don't try to drag the Game Cops here. They kept quiet after they presented evidence. It'd only be fair for you to do the same. You just don't like Crixus because he told you to stop using the account named "eix", which was your multi/feeder account. So it's not a surprise you joined an alliance with a cheater as the leader.

~Jack

[S1eepy]

It also comes off as no surprise that you are on Hippy's side. Remember last era, when I said I know of someone who created a couple accounts, but that I knew they were being used to help make something useful for the community? Surprise, surprise, while you were building the latest Q calc, the Game Cops found an IP match between you and 2 newly created accounts (if I recall the number correctly). When they asked me about it, I told them my opinion - and still believe that was why you built them. But lets not lose sight of the fact that you are defending a known multi - the only one in the community to do it, might I add - whilst you created multi accounts yourself last era.

While I was building my calculator, I got information from everyone who was around. While I was at work (my last week, so wasnt doing any real work ^^) I got a work colleague to sign up so I could see the lowest UP level. There was an IP match, but seen as the account was only logged into that once, and never used again.. I told the GameCops (Crixus I think) we didnt need an IP exception when he asked. If there was more than 1 IP match, then that colleague decided to keep playing, but I havent seen on hear from him since I left work, and I doubt it anyway - hes not much for games.

So no, I did not create "multi-accounts". And I am not defending a multi, I am telling you to get over yourself. You do not make decisions here, Haz does. Accept them and move on. I would say the same thing to Hippy if he had been banned.

I would write more, and point out exactly how much of your post was repeats from the last few days/weeks/months after you said

I won't be endlessly repeating myself or others over and over again.

But whats the point.. its not as if you actually listen to anyone but yourself.

[Field Marshall]

Who **Filtered** cares?

It's Quantum

[Arty Bang]

When I first started and i got caught for feeding/being fed, you want to hear what crazy and unheard of thing happened to me...I WAS BANNED for the whole era.
Guess what happened next, I was sorry i cheated and never did it again. If i was never caught or if nothing happened to me, i would probably still be cheating and this is whats happening with Hippy.

If Hippy gets away with this, then there really is no point to have gamecops or admins...with how admin is acting we technically don't need rules at all and everyone should be free to do what ever they like.

Maybe Hippy does not have to be banned, but there should be some sort of repercussion.

Personally i like Hippy, he has always been nice to me and has helped me many times when i first started.
Me and Crixus watched Hippy and Selina(aka Skyfusion) for a long time, and there is no doubt in my mind that they are 100% the same person.
When ever i play quantum with my friend or cousin, we are on at the same time while we play. This was not the case with Hippy and selina, it was always as soon as 1 of them logged out the other would log in...never were they on at the same time.

Also once Neimenljivi posted the Findings of all this, Selina has not logged in since, where before that he (or should i say hippy) was on almost everyday.

If Hippy gets away with this and this all blows over, he is going to go right back to cheating.
Anyone defending hippy needs to GTHO of Quantum

Using 1 account to benefit another is still a form of Feeding.

[Neimenljivi]

Nicely put, Arty.

S1eepy - my trust in you was lost the minute you put trust in someone who cheats. So sorry if I don't buy into your story with the colleagues from work.

~Jack

[S1eepy]

Using 1 account to benefit another is still a form of Feeding.

So.. say I asked someone to check what rank 1 stats are currently, because my covert too low to do it myself, they would be feeding me?

If my alliance mate gets massed, and I respond by massing the person back, I am feeding my alliance mate?

Thats a dangerous to go down... and one we should avoid.
I agree that having an account for the sole purpose of helping another account should not be allowed. But your statement is wrong.

jack, your "trust" would have been worth something to me years ago, when I used to play. But its clear that in the time I've been away, you have become an embittered pessimist, who will only listen to his own opinion. So why should I care?

[Arty Bang]

Using 1 account to benefit another is still a form of Feeding.

So.. say I asked someone to check what rank 1 stats are currently, because my covert too low to do it myself, they would be feeding me?

If my alliance mate gets massed, and I respond by massing the person back, I am feeding my alliance mate?

Thats a dangerous to go down... and one we should avoid.
I agree that having an account for the sole purpose of helping another account should not be allowed. But your statement is wrong.

jack, your "trust" would have been worth something to me years ago, when I used to play. But its clear that in the time I've been away, you have become an embittered pessimist, who will only listen to his own opinion. So why should I care?

Helping your alliance is different, cause they are all playing... Selina didnt play, selina had one sole purpose, Do to others what hippy cant (spy, mass and sabb)

[R0B3RT]

teyla come here with a petition

i ask the 35 player to say if know who is teyla


1 teyla aka woffy bear
2 this player not have only 1 account in quantum
3 i stop play quantum after this priest sent me hate pm and i really want meet him in really to give him a lession

if caprila not warn me agaian i give more details and skype talk with this **Filtered**

i know hippy used to have multie skyfusion
but teyla is the last to ask a ban

[Crixus]

I have been refraining from getting involved with this topic but I will make one small statement ;

My views also mirror that of my colleague Arty.

In conjunction with Arty, from a game cop perspective we do not doubt Hippyfool and Selina/Skyfusion are indeed the same person.

We feel there is no question of this due to the constant patten of activity that myself and Arty witnessed taking place.
As to give you a small insight as to the extent of the activity I will point out that it reached a stage where us game cops would see either Hippyfool or Skyfusion online and we could correctly predict what the two accounts in question would do next.
That happened on a regular basis through out the wave and as far as we saw there was not one instance during the era that any actions from the two accounts crossed as we see every day when other players farm, spy, sab or raid.
These two accounts did not play like friends helping friends or alliances working together but distinctly like the same person using two accounts as one.
One with the sole purpose to mass, farm and sab the competition, the other to build up for a high ranked win/cash prize.

I do not tend to go in to my experience much but what I will say is what Jack previously touched upon ;
I joined the Met police force practically straight from college, I spent around 6-7 years as a constable before moving and taking a job in as a Detective constable with Gwent police for roughly three years following.
I now work for the family security company which for me mostly entails monitoring retail shops and industrial premises via CCTV. I also had a small admin part in another game a few years ago and saw a great deal of activity there which twins that of the two accounts in question.

Due to my past I'm trained in many aspects of detection and like to think I adapt my skills to suit what I am tasked with online so I want to assure everybody both myself and Arty (who is highly capable of his role also) used all the knowledge known to us to delve in to the situation.
We monitored the suspects closely and investigated all information we could find for a number of weeks, reaching in to months.
There were a number of instances Hippyfool would get spooked and back off a little but as soon as he knew the coast was clear it was business as usual.
Personally I hoped Hippyfool and Skyfusion were not acting dishonestly, he is a player who has been around a while and at the time was an actual alliance mate.
Unfortunately though we were online a lot of the time watching these incidents as they happened and after looking at all the data we collected, twice sometimes three times over, we were left with no doubt what so ever that this user was playing multiple accounts.

I agree again with Arty, some form of punishment would be the best solution in this instance and that is something I would not say if I was not 100% also.

Extra note****
It seems I have been removed as game cop any way, it is a shame the admin is not as quick to ban actual rule breakers as he is over removing his staff for banter to self admitted feeders.
My views and findings are all safe and valid though regardless of my status and I still have all the data.
In any case it was mentioned before this current incident that I would be stepping down any way so thank you for making my choice of when easier

Crixus. Out.

[Neimenljivi]

You agree, S1eepy, that having an account for the sole purpose of helping another account should not be allowed. Good to know. You know why?

Just delete all the accounts that exist for the sole purpose of feeding naq. It won't be much work for you Jason because the actual players will find them all very quickly.

So this would mean my friend, skyfusion who has been feeding me would be deleted. ~ze~ would be deleted also. There are others of course, but they are my examples. Just because they are not multies, they are still technically breaking the rule of "one account existing just to profit another account".
...

I am sure you can connect the dots, right? Ahh wait, that's just an opinion and circumstance, not any evidence and it surely can't mean that Skyfusion exists for the sole purpose of helping Hippy
Funny how an era earlier Hippy, before Skyfusion was found to be Hippy's feeder account, Hippy claimed he wanted to buy naq off of Skyfusion:

Had I bought his naq [Jack: his as in Skyfusion's which was building #1 defs, huge defs in that era, then kept selling them off - and do you want to guess who got that naq?] I think I would have got close to winning, top 3 at least - but he was far more happy with a rank 1 stat than a little bit of $$



As it was, I was at my GFs house and she had no internet so I couldnt even be on for the last 7 hours or so

Awh but wait, Hippy admitted 4 months later that Skyfusion account was there for the sole purpose of feeding him? NOOOOO, HOW COULD THAT BE? Did Hippy.. lie?
Might I also add that Skyfusion's IP kept changing constantly. You know, something it does when proxies are being used?

Oh and might I also add that an account called "ytrewq" (QWERTY backwards, something to indicate the account was made in a rush and had no "real" purpose) was found with an IP match to Skyfusion account before everyone found out Skyfusion was Hippy's feeder account. Of course, Hippy was lucky enough to learn from that incident, where his main account wasn't endangered, not to repeat the mistake again and to always make sure the proxy is on.
Hahahahh a funny story - but it's just a coincidence and in no way, shape or form does it prove anything. Guess what happened in the Stones era? Hippy got one of the stones off of ytrewq account who didn't even fight to take it back or anything like that. But hey, just a coincidence that Hippy happened to know ytrewq account had the stone and just a coincidence that ytrewq account once shared an IP with Skyfusion and just a coincidence Skyfusion is in fact Hippy's account. Sorry - I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or I might get banned - presumably it's Hippy's account.

So S1eepy, do you stand by your statement that having an account for the sole purpose of helping another account should not be allowed? Or will you change your opinion now that you were given Hippy's quote where he admitted Skyfusion was only made to feed him. Despite in another instance he lied about Skyfusion and said he wanted to buy naq off of him, but he didn't want to sell it (and coincidentally, Hippy couldn't be on at the end which is when, I bet, the trade would have taken place - and also coincidentally Skyfusion's account during that era happened to build massive defs, sell them suddenly and didn't use the naq to increase anything on that account).

I haven't become an embittered pessimist, I am actually enjoying life a lot more than I was during those years. What I have become, though, is someone who can look at people, no matter how close they are to me, and judge them by their actions and not by my feelings for them. Something you apparently can't.

Rob - I didn't understand half what you said, but I will say this - Teyla has always fought for what was right in Q. And it isn't just Teyla asking for a ban, 35 people are asking for a ban. That's a majority of Q players.

Crixus - why did you have to write a post full of logic, sense and, you know, rational thinking? You'll get condemned for it here as some people can't pull their heads out of their asses. The new admins are censoring things they don't want the public to see - this is middle ages all over again
On a more serious note (although the censor thingy was completely true), you got removed, despite being way more capable in dealing with cheaters than the new admins, because you called someone retarded. Should I quote all the instances when Sol, the new ascended server admin, called someone retarded? Should I quote all the instances Juliette was being stupid and rude? Or maybe Haz?
Great job, admins, getting rid of helpful staff. But hey, I am sure that will make your lives easier. With Crixus gone, there will be less cheaters reported and thus less work for you to clear them up and you won't even need to unban anyone after they've been banned for feeding. Finally some logic thinking from you. Now if you could only direct that logic thinking towards catching and banning cheaters, instead of clearing and unbanning them and making sure they aren't reported at all.

I am sure you will see an increase of accounts and a decrease of actual players, Haz. Great for the CV and great on paper, not so great for the game itself.

PS: Just so I am not called a liar, here are the links to threads from where I've quoted Hippy:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=176288&p=2223468&h ... n#p2223468
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=171736&p=2166163&h ... n#p2166163

~Jack