StarGateWars Forums

How would it keep prices high if people hesitate to spend money? If you reduce the demand, the prices go down, generally speaking.

The smiley face has spoken.

Wolf359 wrote:

law7441 wrote:well I played these game for when it was only 7months old and uu was never killable, unless at the beginning it was, personally I quit if miners or uu was killable, because large alliance would have even more power than ever before and all the time people put in will be destroy with few hours or days, as for raiding and market I agree with you there. and not even update is bad, it just you don't want to work on something else, MS and anti-covert are pretty good updates.

I played since the game was 2 weeks old - and trust me - uu used to be killable!

And why does everyone persistently insist on viewing all the points separately?? A large alliance would not have even more power than before if uu was killable, because at the same time we would remove artificially produced AT - therefore any player and/or alliance would have to carefully consider how to use their AT because they will be a scarce resource - and because uu are now killable, the consequences of any player/alliance massing someone else would be more severe once retaliation comes in.

Apophis wrote:killable uu - very bad idea (teaming up on a player and boom his/her account is nothing, not to mention he could have spent cash)

Again - read the above! You are considering it in isolation! But the fact that UU are killable, and limiting AT would make people more carefully consider massing someone because the consequences of retaliation are greater. And frankly, the fact that someone spends cash to improve their game account means absolutely nothing - this is a free to play game remember - any cash in the form of SS/PPT is a DONATION. Anything spent to buy UU from other players is simply stupid - and just proves these people have money to burn! AND - when UU were killable, people could still get UU through SS/Infusion Bonuses - but never complained because they knew it was a DONATION and their own risk.

Like I said previously - all the complaints against this are for wholly selfish reasons.

That's why I mentionned gang on, because I considered other facts, if 5 people with 500ATs mass someone it's different than one person with 2500, isn't it? It affects less the people when it's collective work, so, nomatter what happens to ATs my point is right.

thelen wrote:

Apophis ™ wrote:killable uu - very bad idea (teaming up on a player and boom his/her account is nothing, not to mention he could have spent cash)

You just hit the most important thing that will fix the game. The reason the game gets unbalanced, is players can just keep growing.. and growing.. and GROWING.. AND GROWING.... If you have methods by which its easier to kill off a huge part of players army, then the game won't grow infinitely. To make it fair, and also strategic, only non-lifers can be killed. This means it could actually be a strategy to train your UU to lifer, so they are safe. Sure, if will mean you cannot then train as military, but that is the price you pay to keep them safe

At the moment, attack turns aren't really attack turns. They are raid/farm turns. For every 1 turn used to actually mass/attack someone, besides farming/raiding, there are 10000 used for raiding and farming. This is why a cap and removal from market would fix alot of problems, because ATs will be infintitely more valuable, because players will either be able to grow, or make war, but not both.

Oh, and if players know that their money isn't safe, less will spend money, keeping prices high. Except this could be changed, for those that want to spend money, they can buy ATs. This will help support Jason, as well as give those who want to spend money, some chance for an advantage.

So, to summarise:
- Make all non-lifers killable
- Make AT cap 2k
- Remove AT from market
- Remind people they can buy stuff through the game (AT mainly)

Make all non-lifers killable what a good idea...not!
Cap ATs at 2k don't make me laugh and as for prices going high:

<img src="images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt="8)" title="Don't ask!" /> wrote:How would it keep prices high if people hesitate to spend money? If you reduce the demand, the prices go down, generally speaking.

The smiley face has spoken.

Pookie said it well. When demands go high, prices go high to diminutes demand, to get back to normal price, and same goes for low demand, prices fall, to get back to normal prices.


With all your things you know what will happen? The WORST scenario!

Biggest people train 90% of their army as lifers, they go on PPT before update cames in, they massively buy UP, then train all "killable" troops as covert & defence. They make sure to have crazy covert levels (like 32 33 or higher!), so almost noone will see their naq, and they'll have 0 strike & anti to keep a big def that most of people won't risk attacking because of new update. Then, they will do more NAPs to make sure almost all alliances with BIG players will not attack each others so they'll be happy and noone will touch them ever, plus caps being removed ([sarcasm]as they helped biggest players to grow faster than others and "killed" the game[/end of sarcasm]) so they will just have to spend all their naq untouched on more UP to get higher army and then sit to get lifers/covert levels/defence and so on and so on to reach by summer 2008 the 500mil army...or 750mil for the most prepared ones...all of that without raiding, ATs buying, market, cash market etc!!!
Gotta love it, isn't it?
Oh and forgot a VERY LITTLE thing, over than half of active players would be gone by end of summer 2008
Enjoy it

I don't think you'd have to change anything for that to happen, Pops. We already have 300mil army size and level 32s. If anything, this means we should sneak in this update, that is, not warn people, because that'll eliminate at least 90% of the repercussions you listed. That said, this is all a joke. It's never going to happen. Yes, be convinced of that, because you can,t be expecting it when it does... doesn't.

How about this: the only ATs on the market are ATs that people sell to the market.

<img src="images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt="8)" title="Don't ask!" /> wrote:I don't think you'd have to change anything for that to happen, Pops. We already have 300mil army size and level 32s. If anything, this means we should sneak in this update, that is, not warn people, because that'll eliminate at least 90% of the repercussions you listed. That said, this is all a joke. It's never going to happen. Yes, be convinced of that, because you can,t be expecting it when it does... doesn't.

300mil army sizes??? People have it?? WHO?? I thought maximum was held by S T I at something like 255mil!
And level 32 I know a handfull of people have it (let's say 4-5 maxi)...maybe one or two have lvl 33 so.

n00b wrote:How about this: the only ATs on the market are ATs that people sell to the market.

If a change should be done on ATs, it must be that, and only that!

Apophis wrote:That's why I mentionned gang on, because I considered other facts, if 5 people with 500ATs mass someone it's different than one person with 2500, isn't it? It affects less the people when it's collective work, so, nomatter what happens to ATs my point is right.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean. But if UU was made killable, and AT limited, then your point is wrong, because I'm not talking about the consequences of 5 people having less damage to their accounts if they mass someone - I'm talking about the consequences of retaliation. Therefore, if UU was killable and AT were limited than anybody doing any attacking (whether by themselves or as part of a group), would have to consider all the factors before actually making the decision to attack or not - i.e. could they soak up any retaliation or not - this is valid whether they attack as individuals or a group.

i see no problem with the current set up/rules, the caps got raised and obviously the biggest players had less to do to reach them, if anything, so they are whining about how unfair it is. Now i agree planets messed up a lot of things and they are still not exactly balanced, but at least stuff like merc massing (no effective troops killed when massing was fun to do, but very lame) has been stopped.

Yes, price of AT's are going up, it's simple supply and demand due to people starting to raid again after stagnating at 50+ mill army sizes. I still make plenty of profit farming people with no defense and using my mediocre income to buy my AT's with. If i can do it then so can anyone else, assuming they can be bothered to put in the effort. Of course i have noticed more and more people seem to put in 5x as much effort whining than they do farming...My advise is to work on your accounts instead of trying to get jason to give you everything you want on a silver platter.

leave it like it is

Borek wrote:i see no problem with the current set up/rules, the caps got raised and obviously the biggest players had less to do to reach them, if anything, so they are whining about how unfair it is. Now i agree planets messed up a lot of things and they are still not exactly balanced, but at least stuff like merc massing (no effective troops killed when massing was fun to do, but very lame) has been stopped.

Yes, price of AT's are going up, it's simple supply and demand due to people starting to raid again after stagnating at 50+ mill army sizes. I still make plenty of profit farming people with no defense and using my mediocre income to buy my AT's with. If i can do it then so can anyone else, assuming they can be bothered to put in the effort. Of course i have noticed more and more people seem to put in 5x as much effort whining than they do farming...My advise is to work on your accounts instead of trying to get jason to give you everything you want on a silver platter.

Not sure the price of ATs is the issue bud! And it's not about putting in the effort - where is the effort and skill in the monotony of raiding? What people are saying is that certain updates have turned the game, which used to require a certain amount of skill in managing resources, diplomacy, knowing how and when to attack etc, into a boring game of buy AT, radi, raid, raid, buy AT, raid, raid raid - requiring the skill of an amoeba!

You are advising people to work on their accounts - but to be fair, the updates being discussed have meant that people don't actually ahve to do much work - just be prepared to endure the mind numbing process of constantly buying AT and raiding.

And it is because people wanted everything on a silver platter that we got unkillable UU, we got raid teh way it is, and we got unlimited AT - to make it easy - and these have caused the problems!

Just so you know where i stand, unless its Anti Buck or Anti omega, which it isnt, anything wolf359 says, i agree with....

(yes yes i am that lazy...)

Wolf359 wrote:

Borek wrote:i see no problem with the current set up/rules, the caps got raised and obviously the biggest players had less to do to reach them, if anything, so they are whining about how unfair it is. Now i agree planets messed up a lot of things and they are still not exactly balanced, but at least stuff like merc massing (no effective troops killed when massing was fun to do, but very lame) has been stopped.

Yes, price of AT's are going up, it's simple supply and demand due to people starting to raid again after stagnating at 50+ mill army sizes. I still make plenty of profit farming people with no defense and using my mediocre income to buy my AT's with. If i can do it then so can anyone else, assuming they can be bothered to put in the effort. Of course i have noticed more and more people seem to put in 5x as much effort whining than they do farming...My advise is to work on your accounts instead of trying to get jason to give you everything you want on a silver platter.

Not sure the price of ATs is the issue bud! And it's not about putting in the effort - where is the effort and skill in the monotony of raiding? What people are saying is that certain updates have turned the game, which used to require a certain amount of skill in managing resources, diplomacy, knowing how and when to attack etc, into a boring game of buy AT, radi, raid, raid, buy AT, raid, raid raid - requiring the skill of an amoeba!

You are advising people to work on their accounts - but to be fair, the updates being discussed have meant that people don't actually ahve to do much work - just be prepared to endure the mind numbing process of constantly buying AT and raiding.

And it is because people wanted everything on a silver platter that we got unkillable UU, we got raid teh way it is, and we got unlimited AT - to make it easy - and these have caused the problems!

Feel free to point out what DOES require skill in this game mate, because i can tell you for a fact skill has never made the slightest difference. It's all about effort, either in raiding or farming or even in diplomacy.

On top of that i know a lot of people were bored with the old caps because they weren't able to grow that fast, now at least they can grow further which is only natural as the game has grown over time.

Merc change actually added more to the game than anything else i can think of because people now have to train some supers, which they never did before. If you're bored with the game and have a huge account then it's probably because you have played for ages or went completly nuts raiding or buying UU. No sense changing the game because people with low attention spans are bored, they will get bored no matter what happens to the game.

Real reason people get bored is because there's too many cowards afraid to waste some resources attacking and stirring things up. Anyone can change that. it's easy, pick a page 1 alliance and start farming the ones you can, i guarantee before long you'll have all the excitment you could ever need...

Borek wrote:Feel free to point out what DOES require skill in this game mate, because i can tell you for a fact skill has never made the slightest difference. It's all about effort, either in raiding or farming or even in diplomacy.

Thankyou for making my point for me - THERE IS NO SKILL REQUIRED IN THE GAME AT THE MOMENT - but once, there was and it made a BIG difference - whether it was the skill in effectively managing resources, preparing for and co-ordinating wars, making sure you use your AT most effectively and be able to calculate the risk/consequences of attacking, and in diplomacy - and the best players were good at all 3! It meant you had to have a strategy to play the game - whereas now, you don't - all you have to do is be prepared to sit behind your monitor and raid/farm. However - that in itself is not the bad thing - it is the limitless availability of AT!

I was bored - which was why I quit and gave my account away 10 months ago - I decided to come back because I have a lot of free time in the evenings at the moment, and I've got a lot of good friends here. I started afresh, and although it is easy to grow - IT IS DAMNED BORING!

It was, once, truly a strategic role playing war game. strategy has gone, wars are relatively meaningless to what they once were, and almost everyone has the same role - that of a trained raiding monkey!

i'm not making your point, there was NEVER any skill involved.

Borek wrote:i'm not making your point, there was NEVER any skill involved.

WRONG - trust me, ask all the people who played in the first few months.

If there was no skill involved, then how come smaller alliances were able to win wars against larger and (on paper) more powerful alliances? It was because they were more organised, they prepared more efficiently, they knew when to strike - and they did all this without a limitless supply of AT?

And it has nothing to do with low attention spans - and changes were not made because of that - using your argument back on yourself - what was the point in changing the game in the first place because a bunch of moaning whiners wanted things made easier?

And caps isn't a problem - if I had my way, caps would be removed altogether with teh changes I would make.

Wolf359 wrote:

Borek wrote:i'm not making your point, there was NEVER any skill involved.

WRONG - trust me, ask all the people who played in the first few months.

If there was no skill involved, then how come smaller alliances were able to win wars against larger and (on paper) more powerful alliances? It was because they were more organised, they prepared more efficiently, they knew when to strike - and they did all this without a limitless supply of AT?

no, they just played more or were online at the right time, that has nothing at all to do with skill, just effort, as i already said. Farming naq never took skill, just like raiding never has, it's all about effort.

It's a browser game using simple maths, if you want to think common sense and some basic maths knowledge is "skill" then that's fine, but you are deluding yourself.