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Seriously... where the hell has all this animosity against TÅ (and to a lesser extent TTF) come from in the last six months?

That is a serious question and if someone can PM me an honest answer from a neutral perspective I would very much appreciate it. Because the worst thing I can think of that we have done is to mass a few officers (who are supplying FUALL with resources) as they have done against us in every war for years.

We havn't massed innocent alliances, unlike DDE who have a looong list of those they've hit "for fun"... Titans, SGW Estonia, FS, even Devils Brigade now who have a biggest army of 20 million.

And to reply to Esp's posts, we just want the opportunity to go about our business without having to worry about the re-actions of the "top dogs". If we have to beat down the "top dogs" to be able to play the game in our time-honoured traditional ways, then so be it. Remember, they hit us first and we had done nothing to them. It may have been a long time ago, but it's still clear in my mind. Also clear is the fact that they will attack us again in the future if we give them the chance. We won't give them that chance. We will fight them and those that defend their actions here and now.

~Norbe~

EDIT: add The Magnificents and every single person ranked in the top 140 ranks to list of innocent DDE victims.

Norbe wrote:Seriously... where the hell has all this animosity against TÅ (and to a lesser extent TTF) come from in the last six months?

That is a serious question and if someone can PM me an honest answer from a neutral perspective I would very much appreciate it. Because the worst thing I can think of that we have done is to mass a few officers (who are supplying FUALL with resources) as they have done against us in every war for years.

We havn't massed innocent alliances, unlike DDE who have a looong list of those they've hit "for fun"... Titans, SGW Estonia, FS, even Devils Brigade now who have a biggest army of 20 million.

And to reply to Esp's posts, we just want the opportunity to go about our business without having to worry about the re-actions of the "top dogs". If we have to beat down the "top dogs" to be able to play the game in our time-honoured traditional ways, then so be it. Remember, they hit us first and we had done nothing to them. It may have been a long time ago, but it's still clear in my mind. Also clear is the fact that they will attack us again in the future if we give them the chance. We won't give them that chance. We will fight them and those that defend their actions here and now.

~Norbe~

EDIT: add The Magnificents and every single person ranked in the top 140 ranks to list of innocent DDE victims.

Actually, NOT all of TTF were the troublemakers I mentioned in my earlier post.

They were from one Alliance/Empire. I clearly remember being farmed/massed for as little as 9B Naq and If they had a defended attack they massed me. I also remember the alliance being hit after they got bored massing one of our members b/c he dared to sell resc cheaper on the Mkt. And when they were asked about hits for no reasons, the reply was well it could have been a massing instead. I know of a TTF member who threatened to mass a lone player during the war b/c he asked why this player hit him for under 10b. I only can speak for the things that I know of. I think we all have our perspectives and experiences that we draw on for our opinions.

Norbe, if TÅ joins sides with players/alliances that have done these things they are going to get some of that animosity. Im not saying either side is perfect. But you say your on a side fighting for the freedom to play how you see fit (going about your business), what is that exactley? If some of your members (TTF) are/were doing the massings just the same as DDE is supposedly doing, then what really is the difference between the two. Can you account for all of the TA splinters that have massed, went to war with pple for fun in the last year alone?
How about the actions of some of the other members of TTF.

It really boils down to 2 dogs wanting to piss on the same fire hydrant.
But not wanting to say it.

If FUALL was gone, TTF as a whole or in part would bully the server.

You are right, most of us do all have our own experience to draw upon.

Seems funny to say this really, but TÅ are a peaceful alliance if we are left alone. Almost every war we have been involved in during my time here was started because we were attacked, not vice-versa. Most of us would be happy to spend time raiding and growing, helping out new members and generally moving forward in a nice plesant atmosphere. However when someone comes along and pushes us, we are not and never have been affraid to strike back at them.

Can I account for every single incident over the last year involving a member of a TÅF tagged allaince? No, of course I can't. I wasn't around for most of the last year for starters. But I am sure that if those incidents were correctly reported the diplomats would have dealt with them accordingly. It could be that a TÅ member has done something wrong, it happens to everyone occasionally as no-one is perfect. But it is also equally as likely to have been the other member at fault.

As for the other members of TTF then definately not. I think people misunderstand the concept of the task force. We are just a group of alliances, each individually run and governed. Collectively we have one purpose, to fight FUALL. That is it. If that purpose was taken away, you will find that the task force will cease to be. So perhaps an alliance would bully, but it would not be the task force, not even in part.

In terms of the past nature of members of The Task Force "bullying the server", it was a very select group of players who you are refferring to, doing a few actions for a short time. These players stopped doing that a long time ago and arn't around much any more. So such critisism of current players seems unfounded. The only "affiliation" we ever had with the players in question is that FUALL wanted to mass us both. Then it comes down to pure instinct. Strength in numbers.

It's funny really, the fact that we are judged on the past actions of a few ex-players who few of us ever spoke to and yet that means that we are as evil as DDE who want to mass anyone that is trying to ascend AS WE SPEAK. We're not perfect, we know that, but we do our best to do things right. We were forced into this war, FUALL created TTF because of their actions, just as they created CIA two years ago. The only difference is many players have quit on both sides in the meantime, in a few cases taking their policies and ideas with them. In other cases, those policies have remained and continue to cause disputes.

I want to leave you with one final thought, if this war ended tomorrow, and TO started farming and attacking everyone on the server, including TÅ, unless the diplomats were able to resolve that situation, we would probably end up at war with them. Same goes for any alliance, whether part of TTF or not part of it. We protect our own interests, and as long as FUALL is around TTF will be, because it is in the interest of everyone who has ever been stepped upon by FUALL. Those few who were stepped on by members of TTF a long time ago can go and relax in peace, knowing those people wont be doing it again.

Big difference.

If you have specific more recent incidents involving members of TTF "bullying the server", please feel free to enlighten me. The TÅ ~Massers vs Nemesis Sect war is not one such example, nor is TÅ vs The Pond. The reasons for those wars have been well documented already. As for anything else i'm all ears and eyes.

~Norbe~

Mathlord wrote:I fight to defend and protect my alliance. Period.

yeha, same here.
DG

Norbe wrote:It's funny really, the fact that we are judged on the past actions of a few ex-players who few of us ever spoke to and yet that means that we are as evil as DDE who want to mass anyone that is trying to ascend AS WE SPEAK.

Its not we are saying how evil TA is, its that you do not accept that you all are not innocent and hide behind it . Actually I think admin caused the massing your speaking of since he made it harder to ascend since number of accounts is smaller. Also, without the war those players would not be there and FUALL would have stats, so you all helped us get to that point in the history of SGW, feel proud

Am Heh wrote:

Norbe wrote:It's funny really, the fact that we are judged on the past actions of a few ex-players who few of us ever spoke to and yet that means that we are as evil as DDE who want to mass anyone that is trying to ascend AS WE SPEAK.

Its not we are saying how evil TA is, its that you do not accept that you all are not innocent and hide behind it . Actually I think admin caused the massing your speaking of since he made it harder to ascend since number of accounts is smaller. Also, without the war those players would not be there and FUALL would have stats, so you all helped us get to that point in the history of SGW, feel proud

That is terribly twisted logic

Mathlord wrote:That is terribly twisted logic

I know right, Norbe is a bit out there in his assessment.

[spoiler]Its better to quote only the person that your statement is directing[/spoiler]

Norbe wrote:We havn't massed innocent alliances, unlike DDE who have a looong list of those they've hit "for fun"... Titans, SGW Estonia, FS, even Devils Brigade now who have a biggest army of 20 million.

EDIT: add The Magnificents and every single person ranked in the top 140 ranks to list of innocent DDE victims.

LMAO

nie would mate, but you know what would be nicer? Nier would be if you get your facts straight before you post

Neither the TITANS, nor SGW Estonia or FS were "innocent" victims but oh well, whatever suits you. We don't care.

Norbe wrote:In terms of the past nature of members of The Task Force "bullying the server", it was a very select group of players who you are refferring to, doing a few actions for a short time. These players stopped doing that a long time ago and arn't around much any more. So such critisism of current players seems unfounded. The only "affiliation" we ever had with the players in question is that FUALL wanted to mass us both. Then it comes down to pure instinct. Strength in numbers.



I want to leave you with one final thought, if this war ended tomorrow, and TO started farming and attacking everyone on the server, including TÅ, unless the diplomats were able to resolve that situation, we would probably end up at war with them. Same goes for any alliance, whether part of TTF or not part of it. We protect our own interests, and as long as FUALL is around TTF will be, because it is in the interest of everyone who has ever been stepped upon by FUALL. Those few who were stepped on by members of TTF a long time ago can go and relax in peace, knowing those people wont be doing it again.

Big difference.

If you have specific more recent incidents involving members of TTF "bullying the server", please feel free to enlighten me. The TÅ ~Massers vs Nemesis Sect war is not one such example, nor is TÅ vs The Pond. The reasons for those wars have been well documented already. As for anything else i'm all ears and eyes.

~Norbe~

Yes, we all have our experiences to draw upon. Mine brought me to where I am now.

Some of those select few and their accomplices are still around.
And yes it was a while ago, say about a year or so..... a little while before the time the war started that those few bullyied the server. This war has almost gone a year now, but the issues that brought me and others to the war have not changed. Now that time has passed its history; but, still every bit as relevant and not unfounded. Now there is only War.

If the War Ended would anything really change, or would there just be the same posturing as before?

As for the ranks and the massings, maybe we should open the flood gates, lower G/R to 1500 or 1800 and let everyone ascend. Either level the playing field or make the ocean bigger. Maybe that would make everyone happy...... probably not.

Esp.

deni wrote:

Norbe wrote:We havn't massed innocent alliances, unlike DDE who have a looong list of those they've hit "for fun"... Titans, SGW Estonia, FS, even Devils Brigade now who have a biggest army of 20 million.

EDIT: add The Magnificents and every single person ranked in the top 140 ranks to list of innocent DDE victims.

LMAO

nie would mate, but you know what would be nicer? Nier would be if you get your facts straight before you post

Neither the TITANS, nor SGW Estonia or FS were "innocent" victims but oh well, whatever suits you. We don't care.

Seems that you care if you feel the need to respond heh.


But I suppose having various alternative stories and mantras to fit occasions is a must FUA. Afterall there are, on one hand, people moralising no end and fearing TF alliances would bully people - and on the other, the kings and queens of random massings and selfproclaimed enfants-terrible of SGW.
Hardly comapatible, but then again, at the end of the day, when has GA/COP/FUA ever been anything other than a marriage of conveniance. Turning plenty a blind eyes on eachother when pointing out faults of others you are heh... But atleast youre consistent in that.

we dont need a reason to go to war but the fact that we have always had one is a pure and simple fact
that SGW estonia is still in a war that the 2 members who started tucked tale and ran from is not our problem
T I T A N S were notinncoent either and u can ask them that and ask them how they have been treated post war .. when u fight someone with out beliveing the hype about those people then u come to terms with the truth

u want afaster server u have one but there are always reprocussions o get what u want TTF wanted to be the top dogs well you have to sleep with the devil to get that your hands may not be as dirty as mine but I never had to change who I was to get what I wanted.... my conscience is always clear when u fight fire with fire u get burned

REK wrote:we dont need a reason to go to war but the fact that we have always had one is a pure and simple fact
that SGW estonia is still in a war that the 2 members who started tucked tale and ran from is not our problem
T I T A N S were notinncoent either and u can ask them that and ask them how they have been treated post war .. when u fight someone with out beliveing the hype about those people then u come to terms with the truth

u want afaster server u have one but there are always reprocussions o get what u want TTF wanted to be the top dogs well you have to sleep with the devil to get that your hands may not be as dirty as mine but I never had to change who I was to get what I wanted.... my conscience is always clear when u fight fire with fire u get burned

And what are the random persons in the top 138 guilty of heh?

Plus, how can you say that "TF wanted to be the top dogs", there wasnt even a TF when you broke naps and attacked lol. If you really did have such a clear conscience and are content with your character youd stop the BS and admit all this is because you have issues coping with the fact SGW change in mentality and mechancics to the point you can no longer "claim domain" heh... "If I cant be the clear top dog with people bowing to me I`ll ruin it for everyone waaaa waaa waaaaaaa"

Norbe wrote:You are right, most of us do all have our own experience to draw upon.

Seems funny to say this really, but TÅ are a peaceful alliance if we are left alone. Almost every war we have been involved in during my time here was started because we were attacked, not vice-versa. Most of us would be happy to spend time raiding and growing, helping out new members and generally moving forward in a nice plesant atmosphere. However when someone comes along and pushes us, we are not and never have been affraid to strike back at them.

Can I account for every single incident over the last year involving a member of a TÅF tagged allaince? No, of course I can't. I wasn't around for most of the last year for starters. But I am sure that if those incidents were correctly reported the diplomats would have dealt with them accordingly. It could be that a TÅ member has done something wrong, it happens to everyone occasionally as no-one is perfect. But it is also equally as likely to have been the other member at fault.

As for the other members of TTF then definately not. I think people misunderstand the concept of the task force. We are just a group of alliances, each individually run and governed. Collectively we have one purpose, to fight FUALL. That is it. If that purpose was taken away, you will find that the task force will cease to be. So perhaps an alliance would bully, but it would not be the task force, not even in part.

In terms of the past nature of members of The Task Force "bullying the server", it was a very select group of players who you are refferring to, doing a few actions for a short time. These players stopped doing that a long time ago and arn't around much any more. So such critisism of current players seems unfounded. The only "affiliation" we ever had with the players in question is that FUALL wanted to mass us both. Then it comes down to pure instinct. Strength in numbers.

It's funny really, the fact that we are judged on the past actions of a few ex-players who few of us ever spoke to and yet that means that we are as evil as DDE who want to mass anyone that is trying to ascend AS WE SPEAK. We're not perfect, we know that, but we do our best to do things right. We were forced into this war, FUALL created TTF because of their actions, just as they created CIA two years ago. The only difference is many players have quit on both sides in the meantime, in a few cases taking their policies and ideas with them. In other cases, those policies have remained and continue to cause disputes.

I want to leave you with one final thought, if this war ended tomorrow, and TO started farming and attacking everyone on the server, including TÅ, unless the diplomats were able to resolve that situation, we would probably end up at war with them. Same goes for any alliance, whether part of TTF or not part of it. We protect our own interests, and as long as FUALL is around TTF will be, because it is in the interest of everyone who has ever been stepped upon by FUALL. Those few who were stepped on by members of TTF a long time ago can go and relax in peace, knowing those people wont be doing it again.

Big difference.

If you have specific more recent incidents involving members of TTF "bullying the server", please feel free to enlighten me. The TÅ ~Massers vs Nemesis Sect war is not one such example, nor is TÅ vs The Pond. The reasons for those wars have been well documented already. As for anything else i'm all ears and eyes.

~Norbe~

bla bla bla bla..dude your guys not bullying the server is a crock, and dont make yourselves out to be so dam goody too shoes either..the main reason myself and a few others carry the fight so visiously is because of YOUR educators bullying people and frankly I got FED UP WITH IT and now..look how the tide has turned..dude just play..pack it in and surrender or STHU about who is doing what and this or that.

Brdavs wrote:

REK wrote:we dont need a reason to go to war but the fact that we have always had one is a pure and simple fact
that SGW estonia is still in a war that the 2 members who started tucked tale and ran from is not our problem
T I T A N S were notinncoent either and u can ask them that and ask them how they have been treated post war .. when u fight someone with out beliveing the hype about those people then u come to terms with the truth

u want afaster server u have one but there are always reprocussions o get what u want TTF wanted to be the top dogs well you have to sleep with the devil to get that your hands may not be as dirty as mine but I never had to change who I was to get what I wanted.... my conscience is always clear when u fight fire with fire u get burned

And what are the random persons in the top 138 guilty of heh?

Plus, how can you say that "TF wanted to be the top dogs", there wasnt even a TF when you broke naps and attacked lol. If you really did have such a clear conscience and are content with your character youd stop the BS and admit all this is because you have issues coping with the fact SGW change in mentality and mechancics to the point you can no longer "claim domain" heh... "If I cant be the clear top dog with people bowing to me I`ll ruin it for everyone waaaa waaa waaaaaaa"

no there was a JANUS PACT and zesh and blahh new exactly what they were doing and how we would react .. he told me so himself... blahh was always a very good friend


we are still the top dogs and lets all be honest we are reclaiming our territory from the undeserving sqwatters and dont be mistaken this is NOT an FUALL move but one of the main DDE branch itself... so if anyone wants war bring it on or simply leave those spots quietly and u wont be harmed

this is my server my world I just let u visit here get used to it 1 year later and we are more cockier than ever

Jedi~Tank wrote:bla bla bla bla..dude your guys not bullying the server is a crock, and dont make yourselves out to be so dam goody too shoes either..the main reason myself and a few others carry the fight so visiously is because of YOUR educators bullying people and frankly I got FED UP WITH IT and now..look how the tide has turned..dude just play..pack it in and surrender or STHU about who is doing what and this or that.

dude, thats LAUGHABLE; TE were as much yours as they were ours.

And lets talk present not 2 years back... who is atm massing the entires servers top 140 ppl, just for the lulz? TF alliances youre figthing against or your precios DDE? Carefull with them stones JT, you`re in a palace of chrystal. You think people that dumb to believe that youre fighting against bullies while youre acting *gasp* like a bunch of bullies.

REK wrote:
no there was a JANUS PACT and zesh and blahh new exactly what they were doing and how we would react .. he told me so himself... blahh was always a very good friend

we are still the top dogs and lets all be honest we are reclaiming our territory from the undeserving sqwatters and dont be mistaken this is NOT an FUALL move but one of the main DDE branch itself... so if anyone wants war bring it on or simply leave those spots quietly and u wont be harmed

this is my server my world I just let u visit here get used to it 1 year later and we are more cockier than ever

Janus pact alliances now makes up what, 1/4 of the TF lol... rest you added via your charming demeanor over time, if you remember.

And lets cut the whole zesh and blahh thing lol, they went out when it was a mute point, you think it escaped ppls notice you were bleeding your alliance for war naq in preparation for war heh... meh, nvm, pointelss to go there again lol. Twas the inevitable continuiation from the time CoP got spanked.
I thought you were content with your obsesive/possesive egomaniac nature..


Only thing one can be the top dog of nowadays is huffing and puffing heh... And there I concede, you`re in with a very good shout for the crown.